[Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
john9ten at pacbell.net
john9ten at pacbell.net
Thu Oct 22 18:30:48 PDT 2009
True, and I have heard that Kotton Klenser is actually a type of hand cleaner. Who knows. Go to their website at www.kottonklenser,com and there are lotsa products and faqs for use. Interesting.
Is anyone else curious why 2 words normally spelt with a C are spelt with Ks (KK) and the company is in tennessee, and used to be called Rebel Products??? Just my conspiracy theory.
John
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:23:08
To: Antique Phonograph List<phono-l at oldcrank.org>
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type
of cleaner used. The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check
the ingredients. The water is tied up in a couple of the other
ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the
finish problems.
john9ten at pacbell.net wrote:
> I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines, but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage shine.
> We all have our own methods of course!
> Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rich <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14
> To: Antique Phonograph List<phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>
> The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish
> formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the
> first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It
> will strip the decals quite rapidly.
>
> Barry Kasindorf wrote:
>> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it
>> leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very
>> good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used.
>> -Barry
>>
>>
>> Douglas Houston wrote:
>>> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available
>>> with
>>> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff.
>>> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same
>>> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good
>>> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Ron L'Herault <lherault at bu.edu>
>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>
>>>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by
>>>>
>>> L&D, I
>>>
>>>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
>>>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease
>>>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as
>>>> important as
>>>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does
>>>> cut
>>>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
>>>>
>>>> Ron L
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]
>>>>
>>> On
>>>
>>>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>
>>>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
>>>>
>>> including a
>>>
>>>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are
>>>> referring
>>>>
>>> to
>>>
>>>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean
>>>>
>>> it?
>>>
>>>> Thank you.
>>>> Tom
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]
>>>>
>>> On
>>>
>>>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List
>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>
>>>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
>>>>
>>> going
>>>
>>>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com
>>>>
>>>> Charlotte aka Waves
>>>> http://www.wavesllc.com
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
>>>> <cdh041 at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
>>>>>
>>> buildup
>>>
>>>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought
>>>>> by my
>>>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
>>>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
>>>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
>>>>>
>>>> time
>>>>
>>>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
>>>>>
>>> the
>>>
>>>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was
>>>>> exposed.
>>>>>
>>>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
>>>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
>>>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
>>>>>
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> finish is as new.
>>>>>
>>>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
>>>>>
>>>> phonographs.
>>>>
>>>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
>>>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
>>>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
>>>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
>>>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
>>>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
>>>>>
>>>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
>>>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
>>>>>
>>> few
>>>
>>>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it
>>>>> had
>>>>>
>>>> an
>>>>
>>>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and
>>>>> the
>>>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
>>>>>
>>>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together,
>>>>> checking
>>>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
>>>>>
>>> Go-Jo
>>>
>>>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen
>>>>>
>>> a
>>>
>>>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it
>>>>> going. I
>>>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> [Original Message]
>>>>>> From: Andrew Baron <andy at popyrus.com>
>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
>>>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
>>>>>> soon regain its.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black
>>>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the
>>>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to
>>>>>>> realize just
>>>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price,
>>>>>>> regardless of
>>>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One
>>>>>>> spring was
>>>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with
>>>>>>> Go-Jo
>>>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [Original Message]
>>>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters <mobilityscooters at xtra.co.nz>
>>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>> Great story!
>>>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people
>>>>>>>> must of
>>>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon.
>>>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you.
>>>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the
>>>>>>>> rest
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> your life. ha ha
>>>>>>>> All the very best
>>>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ]On
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m.
>>>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures???
>>>>>>>> Ken B.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron
>>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM
>>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of
>>>>>>>> some
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a
>>>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either
>>>>>>>>
>>> more
>>>
>>>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in
>>>>>>>> Santa Fe,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> NM.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty
>>>>>>>> sparsely
>>>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or
>>>>>>>> other work
>>>>>>>> that would draw a larger population.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs.
>>>>>>>> Add to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> this
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> begin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Standards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if
>>>>>>>> not out
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here
>>>>>>>> later
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> on,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and
>>>>>>>> there
>>>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That
>>>>>>>>
>>> being
>>>
>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X,
>>>>>>>> Edison
>>>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand
>>>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population
>>>>>>>>
>>> 72,000.
>>>
>>>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> geographically
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was
>>>>>>>> brought here
>>>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> To the subject at hand:
>>>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual
>>>>>>>> Fall
>>>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of
>>>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait
>>>>>>>> until
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> late
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the
>>>>>>>> shop
>>>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite
>>>>>>>> nice,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector,
>>>>>>>> so no
>>>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the
>>>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in
>>>>>>>> the next
>>>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where
>>>>>>>>
>>> we
>>>
>>>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said
>>>>>>>> that I'd
>>>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed
>>>>>>>> casually
>>>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> next
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going
>>>>>>>> to be
>>>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than
>>>>>>>> I could
>>>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just
>>>>>>>> sticking out
>>>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my
>>>>>>>> mind to
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my
>>>>>>>> powers
>>>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find
>>>>>>>> although I
>>>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful
>>>>>>>> phono-L
>>>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top
>>>>>>>> curl
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from
>>>>>>>> bashing the
>>>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the
>>>>>>>>
>>> fine,
>>>
>>>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer
>>>>>>>> pattern
>>>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the
>>>>>>>> front of
>>>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in
>>>>>>>>
>>> New
>>>
>>>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware
>>>>>>>> of the
>>>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own
>>>>>>>> eyes.
>>>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a
>>>>>>>>
>>> New
>>>
>>>>>>> Mexico
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> trim
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally
>>>>>>>> good and
>>>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper
>>>>>>>> rear
>>>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph
>>>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them
>>>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed:
>>>>>>>> Original gold V key;
>>>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and
>>>>>>>> back;
>>>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> sitting
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet;
>>>>>>>>
>>> Near
>>>
>>>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold
>>>>>>>> Exhibition
>>>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the
>>>>>>>> lid and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record
>>>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> area
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records,
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower
>>>>>>>> key
>>>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner
>>>>>>>> curl).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sold!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> intimately
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is
>>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a
>>>>>>>>
>>> respectable
>>>
>>>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow
>>>>>>>> grease and
>>>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> complete
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is
>>>>>>>> relatively
>>>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed
>>>>>>>> film of
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> old
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places,
>>>>>>>> and a
>>>>>>>> light coat of fresh
>>>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly.
>>>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something
>>>>>>>> awful
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the
>>>>>>>> number of
>>>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total
>>>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total
>>>>>>>> (Roman
>>>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of
>>>>>>>> one
>>>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less
>>>>>>>> than
>>>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my
>>>>>>>> math
>>>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the
>>>>>>>> gold-
>>>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-
>>>>>>>> off
>>>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> cabinet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key
>>>>>>>> escutcheon?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> accurately
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for
>>>>>>>> those
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>>>>> Andy Baron
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> NEW ADDRESS
>>>> Showplace Antique Center
>>>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107
>>>> NY NY 10010
>>>> t. 212-273-9616
>>>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5
>>>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT
>>>> http://www.wavesllc.com
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Phono-L mailing list
>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> _______________________________________________
> Phono-L mailing list
> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>
>
_______________________________________________
Phono-L mailing list
http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
More information about the Phono-L
mailing list