[Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
Barry Kasindorf
barry at barrykasindorf.com
Thu Oct 22 13:41:46 PDT 2009
Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it
leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very
good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used.
-Barry
Douglas Houston wrote:
> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with
> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff.
> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same
> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good
> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price.
>
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: Ron L'Herault <lherault at bu.edu>
>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>
>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by
>>
> L&D, I
>
>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the
>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease
>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as
>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut
>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up.
>>
>> Ron L
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]
>>
> On
>
>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM
>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>
>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products
>>
> including a
>
>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring
>>
> to
>
>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean
>>
> it?
>
>> Thank you.
>> Tom
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]
>>
> On
>
>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager
>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM
>> To: Antique Phonograph List
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>
>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by
>>
> going
>
>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com
>>
>> Charlotte aka Waves
>> http://www.wavesllc.com
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston
>> <cdh041 at earthlink.net>wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a
>>>
> buildup
>
>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my
>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were
>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top
>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first
>>>
>> time
>>
>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on
>>>
> the
>
>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed.
>>>
>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove
>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and
>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas,
>>>
>> the
>>
>>> finish is as new.
>>>
>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these
>>>
>> phonographs.
>>
>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were
>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special
>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One
>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has
>>>
> a
>
>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the
>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank.
>>>
>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial
>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A
>>>
> few
>
>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had
>>>
>> an
>>
>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the
>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates.
>>>
>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking
>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the
>>>
> Go-Jo
>
>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen
>>>
> a
>
>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I
>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> [Original Message]
>>>> From: Andrew Baron <andy at popyrus.com>
>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor
>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will
>>>> soon regain its.
>>>>
>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black
>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the
>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness.
>>>>
>>>> Andy
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to
>>>>> realize just
>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price,
>>>>> regardless of
>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One
>>>>> spring was
>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with
>>>>> Go-Jo
>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy!
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> [Original Message]
>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters <mobilityscooters at xtra.co.nz>
>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>> Great story!
>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people
>>>>>> must of
>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon.
>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you.
>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the
>>>>>> rest
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> your life. ha ha
>>>>>> All the very best
>>>>>> Tony
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>>
>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>
>>>>>> ]On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m.
>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List'
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures???
>>>>>> Ken B.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>>>>
>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>>>
>>>>>> ]
>>>>>>
>>>>> On
>>>>>
>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron
>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM
>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List
>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of
>>>>>> some
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a
>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either
>>>>>>
> more
>
>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in
>>>>>> Santa Fe,
>>>>>>
>>>>> NM.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty
>>>>>> sparsely
>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or
>>>>>> other work
>>>>>> that would draw a larger population.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs.
>>>>>> Add to
>>>>>>
>>>>> this
>>>>>
>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs
>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>> begin
>>>>>
>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison
>>>>>>
>>>>> Standards,
>>>>>
>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if
>>>>>> not out
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here
>>>>>> later
>>>>>>
>>>>> on,
>>>>>
>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and
>>>>>> there
>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That
>>>>>>
> being
>
>>>>> said,
>>>>>
>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X,
>>>>>> Edison
>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand
>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population
>>>>>>
> 72,000.
>
>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are
>>>>>>
>>>>> geographically
>>>>>
>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was
>>>>>> brought here
>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To the subject at hand:
>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual
>>>>>> Fall
>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of
>>>>>> Santa
>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait
>>>>>> until
>>>>>>
>>>>> late
>>>>>
>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the
>>>>>> shop
>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite
>>>>>> nice,
>>>>>>
>>>>> but
>>>>>
>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector,
>>>>>> so no
>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the
>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in
>>>>>> the next
>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where
>>>>>>
> we
>
>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said
>>>>>> that I'd
>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed
>>>>>> casually
>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>> next
>>>>>
>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going
>>>>>> to be
>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than
>>>>>> I could
>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just
>>>>>> sticking out
>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my
>>>>>> mind to
>>>>>>
>>>>> see
>>>>>
>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my
>>>>>> powers
>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find
>>>>>> although I
>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful
>>>>>> phono-L
>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top
>>>>>> curl
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from
>>>>>> bashing the
>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the
>>>>>>
> fine,
>
>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer
>>>>>> pattern
>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the
>>>>>> front of
>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in
>>>>>>
> New
>
>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware
>>>>>> of the
>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own
>>>>>> eyes.
>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a
>>>>>>
> New
>
>>>>> Mexico
>>>>>
>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges
>>>>>> and
>>>>>>
>>>>> trim
>>>>>
>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally
>>>>>> good and
>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper
>>>>>> rear
>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph
>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them
>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed:
>>>>>> Original gold V key;
>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and
>>>>>> back;
>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still
>>>>>>
>>>>> sitting
>>>>>
>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet;
>>>>>>
> Near
>
>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold
>>>>>> Exhibition
>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the
>>>>>> lid and
>>>>>>
>>>>> in
>>>>>
>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record
>>>>>> storage
>>>>>>
>>>>> area
>>>>>
>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records,
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower
>>>>>> key
>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner
>>>>>> curl).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sold!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more
>>>>>>
>>>>> intimately
>>>>>
>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is
>>>>>> so
>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a
>>>>>>
> respectable
>
>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow
>>>>>> grease and
>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a
>>>>>>
>>>>> complete
>>>>>
>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is
>>>>>> relatively
>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed
>>>>>> film of
>>>>>>
>>>>> old
>>>>>
>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places,
>>>>>> and a
>>>>>> light coat of fresh
>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly.
>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something
>>>>>> awful
>>>>>>
>>>>> when
>>>>>
>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the
>>>>>> number of
>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total
>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total
>>>>>> (Roman
>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less
>>>>>> than
>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my
>>>>>> math
>>>>>> right.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the
>>>>>> gold-
>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-
>>>>>> off
>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the
>>>>>>
>>>>> cabinet.
>>>>>
>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key
>>>>>> escutcheon?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and
>>>>>>
>>>>> accurately
>>>>>
>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for
>>>>>> those
>>>>>>
>>>>> of
>>>>>
>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Kindest regards,
>>>>>> Andy Baron
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
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>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
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>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107
>> NY NY 10010
>> t. 212-273-9616
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