From victrola at triton.net Thu Oct 1 04:16:17 2009 From: victrola at triton.net (George) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 07:16:17 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Fw: Brunswick antique phonograph Message-ID: <6309225574954BDBB0F95A3D2F861985@VALUEDCB7D4C82> I am forwarding this following email for this person in the Long Island NY area. Contact them directly for additional info. I do not know them or anything more about the machine George ----- Original Message ----- From: mindy46028 at aol.com To: victrola at triton.net Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2009 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Brunswick antique phonograph Mr. Vollema, I am enclosing a picture of the Brunswick tiger oak crank cabinet. I could send you a picture of the inside. I am interested in selling this piece. The cabinet is lovely. Please let me know if you know any potential buyers. I am located in NY (Long Island). The turntable/crank works. Clearly, the price is negotiable since it needs repairing. I appreciate any assistance you could provide. Thanks, Mindy From estott at localnet.com Thu Oct 1 07:35:39 2009 From: estott at localnet.com (estott at localnet.com) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 10:35:39 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Alkaline Battery Message-ID: <20091001103539.8x44fe2wfy1w0g00@webmail.localnet.com> I've got an Edison Battery that could use a new home. It's probably 1930's vintage with a wood case and metal cells, there's a nice label with Edison's picture and his signature is embossed on all the caps. It could use a cleaning (there's oily dust on it from long storage) but it will display nicely- and I'll include some empty battery oil bottles. I strongly suspect it was used in a railroad signal. Make me an offer- I can bring it along to the Wayne show next weekend. Shipping is possible but this is very heavy and I can't guarantee that any remaining electrolyte wouldn't spill. Eric Stott, Albany NY From waykos at shaw.ca Fri Oct 2 07:49:53 2009 From: waykos at shaw.ca (wayne) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 07:49:53 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Maestrophone tone arm Message-ID: Hi all.I'm looking for a European tone arm for a Maestrophone Phonograph with a 12" table.I have a photo of the arm I need.The size is 1 5/8" wide at the big end by 9" long tapered.Note,I have one already that is a bit short.If there is a person thar has the skill to extend it (I have the piece) I would like to hear from you also.Thanks. From lherault at bu.edu Fri Oct 2 11:21:22 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 14:21:22 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Maestrophone tone arm In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Have you asked a brass musical instrument repair person (trombone, tuba etc)? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of wayne Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 10:50 AM To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Maestrophone tone arm Hi all.I'm looking for a European tone arm for a Maestrophone Phonograph with a 12" table.I have a photo of the arm I need.The size is 1 5/8" wide at the big end by 9" long tapered.Note,I have one already that is a bit short.If there is a person thar has the skill to extend it (I have the piece) I would like to hear from you also.Thanks. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From waykos at shaw.ca Fri Oct 2 15:18:13 2009 From: waykos at shaw.ca (wayne) Date: Fri, 2 Oct 2009 15:18:13 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Maestrophone tone arm Message-ID: <7509C13574C449BB865E37357CD326BE@WaynePC> Thanks Ron.If I have no luck in finding the right arm,I will look into that as a alternative.If there is a collector out there that has a few European arms,let me know and I will send a pic of mine.You never know. From lherault at bu.edu Tue Oct 6 06:49:25 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:49:25 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Message-ID: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Will there be any parts suppliers at the Wayne show next Sunday? I (or my friend-both of us may be there) are in need of two, 2-56 (we think) pivot screws for a Columbia reproducer. Ron L From markelynch at earthlink.net Tue Oct 6 09:53:43 2009 From: markelynch at earthlink.net (mark lynch) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 12:53:43 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Site Tickets Message-ID: <26653525.1254848023757.JavaMail.root@wamui-cynical.atl.sa.earthlink.net> Did anyone reserve tickets for the Edison Site private opening this Friday that will not be able to attend? I would dearly like to find 2 tickets. Please contact me if you can help. Best Regards, Mark From klinger at modex.com Tue Oct 6 17:36:16 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:36:16 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Preservation Grant Award 2009 Message-ID: The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. If you have any questions, please click on the link below. ---- 2009 ARSC PRESERVATION GRANT AWARD ---- The ARSC Preservation Grants Committee is pleased to announce the recipient of the Grant for Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings. The program for these grants was founded in 2004 by Al Schlachtmeyer and the ARSC Board of Directors, to encourage and support the preservation of historically significant sound recordings of Western Art Music by individuals and organizations. --- The Detroit Symphony Orchestra --- The orchestra was awarded $10,000 for its Detroit Symphony Orchestra Archives Audio Preservation Project. This project assists in preserving and re-housing the historical recordings of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra. Additionally, the project helps make these recordings accessible to scholars and members of the public. The preservation project will begin with audiotape recordings of broadcasts made in the 1950s, which are in danger of deterioration because of age and former storage conditions. The collection includes many performances involving African-American composers and performers, and documents the work of Music Directors Paul Paray, Sixten Ehrling, and Antal Dorati. With in-kind contributions from the Symphony and its Annual Fund, Save America's Treasures, and the National Historic Publications and Records Commission, the project forms part of the strategic plan of the orchestra's new Music Director, Leonard Slatkin. For more information about the Grants for Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings, visit http://www.arsc-audio.org/preservationgrants.html. The deadline for receipt of applications for the next grant cycle is December 15, 2009. The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From klinger at modex.com Tue Oct 6 17:43:23 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 20:43:23 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Research Grants Program 2010 Message-ID: <3DF563FC64A84B208608A7A42EEC3432@billqbszr49l7m> The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. If you have any questions, please click on the link or e-mail address below. --- ARSC RESEARCH GRANTS PROGRAM --- Deadline for receipt of applications: February 28, 2010 The ARSC Research Grants Program supports scholarship and publication in the fields of sound recording research and audio preservation. (This program is separate from the ARSC Preservation Grants Program, which encourages and supports the preservation of historically significant sound recordings of Western Art Music.) Project categories eligible for consideration include: discography, bibliography, historical studies of the sound recording industry and its products, and any other subject likely to increase the public's understanding and appreciation of the lasting importance of recorded sound. ARSC encourages applications from individuals whose research forms part of an academic program at the master's or doctoral level. ARSC members and non-members alike are eligible for grants in amounts up to $1000. Grant funds can be used to underwrite clerical, editorial, and travel expenses. Funds may not be used to purchase capital equipment or recordings, to perform operations on sound recordings, to reimburse applicants for work already performed, or to support projects that form part of a paid job. Grant recipients must submit documentation of their expenses before reimbursement. All grant funds must be disbursed within eighteen months of the grant award. Grant recipients are required to submit brief descriptions of their projects for publication in the ARSC Journal, and are encouraged to submit articles about their projects, for possible publication in the Journal. Research Grant Applications shall include: -- a summary of the project (one page maximum), with samples of the work, if possible; -- a budget covering the entire project, highlighting the expenses the ARSC Grant will cover (one page maximum); -- a curriculum vitae; and -- an indication of the prospects for publication or other public dissemination of the project results. Applications should be sent in the form of four paper copies to: Grants Committee Chairman Richard Warren, Historical Sound Recordings Yale University Library P. O. Box 208240 New Haven, CT 06520-8240 U.S.A. Applications for the next grant cycle must be received by February 28, 2010. For more information, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/researchgrants.html Questions about the Research Grants Program should be directed to Mr. Warren at: richard.warren at yale.edu The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From phonophan at aol.com Wed Oct 7 07:26:35 2009 From: phonophan at aol.com (phonophan at aol.com) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:26:35 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? In-Reply-To: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <8CC15714EDADD57-5780-B691@webmail-m026.sysops.aol.com> Ron Sitko will be there. Ron's number is 518 371 8549. Cheers, Tim Fabrizio. -----Original Message----- From: Ron L'Herault To: 'Antique Phonograph List' ; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 9:49 am Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Will there be any parts suppliers at the Wayne show next Sunday? I (or my friend-both of us may be there) are in need of two, 2-56 (we think) pivot screws for a Columbia reproducer. Ron L _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Wed Oct 7 08:38:57 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 08:38:57 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? In-Reply-To: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <433099.29740.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi Ron, You can get these and any other miniature screws at a hobby shop that specializes in model trains. Hope this helps, Harvey Kravitz ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List ; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 6:49:25 AM Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Will there be any parts suppliers at the Wayne show next Sunday? I (or my friend-both of us may be there) are in need of two, 2-56 (we think) pivot screws for a Columbia reproducer. Ron L _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Wed Oct 7 08:39:16 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:39:16 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] plastic dye Message-ID: <004101ca4764$545aa9d0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> A link dealing with car restoration mentioned a product that restores color to hard rubber and Bakelite. It is used on antique fountain pens. See: http://www.pensburymanor.com/Pensbury_Garage.html I have not tried it or seen it in person, so if anyone on the list gives it a shot, let us know how it performs. Ron L From lherault at bu.edu Wed Oct 7 08:46:19 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 11:46:19 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? In-Reply-To: <433099.29740.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <433099.29740.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <004801ca4765$503a0890$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> They have conical ends. Would a train shop have them in that configuration? I actually have a train shop within walking distance and never thought of them as a source for small screws. I've bought paint there though. Thanks. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of harvey kravitz Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:39 AM To: Antique Phonograph List; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Hi Ron, You can get these and any other miniature screws at a hobby shop that specializes in model trains. Hope this helps, Harvey Kravitz ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List ; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 6:49:25 AM Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Will there be any parts suppliers at the Wayne show next Sunday? I (or my friend-both of us may be there) are in need of two, 2-56 (we think) pivot screws for a Columbia reproducer. Ron L _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Wed Oct 7 09:17:03 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:17:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? In-Reply-To: <004801ca4765$503a0890$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <003401ca468b$d17143e0$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <433099.29740.qm@web54301.mail.re2.yahoo.com> <004801ca4765$503a0890$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <615482.22147.qm@web54305.mail.re2.yahoo.com> They might. If not, you can spin out conical points on Dremel tool. I'd bring in the peice have have the shop owner/employee check the threads to see if it is 2-56. There are others such as 00-90, 0080, 0-72, 2-56, and 4-40. I have bought and modified these screws in the past with great success. Get the Walther's brand. They are brass and easy to spin. Good luck, Harvey ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Wed, October 7, 2009 8:46:19 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? They have conical ends. Would a train shop have them in that configuration? I actually have a train shop within walking distance and never thought of them as a source for small screws. I've bought paint there though. Thanks. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of harvey kravitz Sent: Wednesday, October 07, 2009 11:39 AM To: Antique Phonograph List; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Hi Ron, You can get these and any other miniature screws at a hobby shop that specializes in model trains. Hope this helps, Harvey Kravitz ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List ; phonolist at yahoogroups.com Sent: Tue, October 6, 2009 6:49:25 AM Subject: [Phono-L] parts suppliers at the Wayne show? Will there be any parts suppliers at the Wayne show next Sunday? I (or my friend-both of us may be there) are in need of two, 2-56 (we think) pivot screws for a Columbia reproducer. Ron L _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From msprinzen at juno.com Wed Oct 7 13:24:10 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (msprinzen at juno.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 20:24:10 GMT Subject: [Phono-L] Phonographs and related advertisements for sale Message-ID: <20091007.162410.9886.0@webmail03.dca.untd.com> Hi Everyone -- It's fall cleaning time around here, and I've got some phonographs and advertising material for sale. I'll be going to Wayne and can bring them along (or otherwise ship them, of course), and I'm happy to send photos. Here's what I have: PHONOGRAPHS 1. Vanophone -- Good working order and all parts original (at least as far as I can tell). This is the version without the speed control slider on the front. $345. 2. Mikkyphone -- The gasket that holds the reproducer to the tone arm will need to be replaced, but otherwise in good working order and all parts original (at least as far as I can tell). This is the more valuable version with the "Made in Occupied Japan" label on it. The plastic carrying handle is also there and in perfect condition. $295 3. Baby Jeannette -- This is a child's tin and cast iron phonograph, and it's in pretty rough shape. The key is not original but everything else looks to be, including the reproducer and tone arm. I don't know enough to know whether it works. $95 4. Polly Portable phonograph -- This is the one with the paper collapsible horn, which is missing. The carrying handle on the case has also been replaced. Otherwise everything else is there and original. A good machine for parts. $85 ADVERTISEMENTS 1. Orthophonic Victrolas Electrolas and Radiola Combinations -- A sixteen-page catalog featuring all the new models from Victor, dated 1925. It's in really good condition with a protective sleeve. $50 2. A two-sided advertisement for a Victrola No. 4 Sound Box -- Multi-colored flyer with a drawing of the sound box on one side and an illustration and description of the change in the horn and tone chamber made in Victor phonographs in August 1925. $15 If you're interested in any of these, please contact me off-list. Thanks! ____________________________________________________________ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ztzNTWx2wU3GXkRKhcU-bwAAJ1D2EGWQJgc2Zfu3rGBZpu80AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA= From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Wed Oct 7 16:10:12 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 19:10:12 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Phonographs and related advertisements for sale Message-ID: merle did you or anyone see kurts new catalog some rare bubble books in this time zono hope to see all at wayne In a message dated 10/7/2009 4:25:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, msprinzen at juno.com writes: Hi Everyone -- It's fall cleaning time around here, and I've got some phonographs and advertising material for sale. I'll be going to Wayne and can bring them along (or otherwise ship them, of course), and I'm happy to send photos. Here's what I have: PHONOGRAPHS 1. Vanophone -- Good working order and all parts original (at least as far as I can tell). This is the version without the speed control slider on the front. $345. 2. Mikkyphone -- The gasket that holds the reproducer to the tone arm will need to be replaced, but otherwise in good working order and all parts original (at least as far as I can tell). This is the more valuable version with the "Made in Occupied Japan" label on it. The plastic carrying handle is also there and in perfect condition. $295 3. Baby Jeannette -- This is a child's tin and cast iron phonograph, and it's in pretty rough shape. The key is not original but everything else looks to be, including the reproducer and tone arm. I don't know enough to know whether it works. $95 4. Polly Portable phonograph -- This is the one with the paper collapsible horn, which is missing. The carrying handle on the case has also been replaced. Otherwise everything else is there and original. A good machine for parts. $85 ADVERTISEMENTS 1. Orthophonic Victrolas Electrolas and Radiola Combinations -- A sixteen-page catalog featuring all the new models from Victor, dated 1925. It's in really good condition with a protective sleeve. $50 2. A two-sided advertisement for a Victrola No. 4 Sound Box -- Multi-colored flyer with a drawing of the sound box on one side and an illustration and description of the change in the horn and tone chamber made in Victor phonographs in August 1925. $15 If you're interested in any of these, please contact me off-list. Thanks! ____________________________________________________________ Weight Loss Program Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=ztzNTWx2wU3GXkRKhcU-bwAAJ1D2EG WQJgc2Zfu3rGBZpu80AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAEUgAAAAA= _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From klinger at modex.com Wed Oct 7 18:20:58 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:20:58 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Preservation Grants Program 2010 Message-ID: The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. If you have any questions, please click on the link or e-mail address below. --- ARSC PRESERVATION GRANTS PROGRAM --- Deadline for receipt of applications: December 15, 2009 The ARSC Program for the Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings was founded by Al Schlachtmeyer and the ARSC Board of Directors to encourage and support the preservation of historically significant sound recordings of Western Art Music by individuals and organizations. (This program is separate from the ARSC Research Grants Program, which supports scholarship and publication in the fields of sound recording research and audio preservation.) The ARSC Program for the Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings will consider funding: -- Projects involving preservation, in any valid and reasonable fashion, such as providing a collection with proper climate control, moving a collection to facilities with proper storage conditions, re-sleeving a collection of discs, setting up a volunteer project to organize and inventory a stored collection, rescuing recordings from danger, copying recordings from endangered or unstable media, etc. -- Projects promoting public access to recordings. -- Projects involving commercial as well as private, instantaneous recordings. -- Projects involving collections anywhere in the world. (Non-U.S. applicants are encouraged to apply.) The program is administered by an ARSC Grants Committee including the chairman, a member of the ARSC Technical Committee, a member of the ARSC Associated Audio Archives Committee, and an expert on classical music. Grant amounts generally range from $2,000 to $10,000. Grant projects should be completed within 24 months. Written notification of decisions on projects will be made approximately three months after the submission deadline. Send completed applications to: Richard Warren Jr., ARSC Grants Program, Historical Sound Recordings, Yale Music Library, P.O. Box 208240, New Haven, CT 06520-8240, USA. Grant applications must be received by December 15, 2009. For further details, guidelines, and application instructions, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/preservationgrants.html Questions about the Preservation Grants Program should be directed to Mr. Warren at richard.warren at yale.edu The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Oct 8 18:32:18 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 01:32:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] If it looks like a Crapophone !! Message-ID: <1695514811.3515531255051938134.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Looks like one, cranks like one, plays like one, IT Is ONe !! Sure love the angle the needle is hitting the record !! Ouch !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsD0NALHm28&feature=related From msprinzen at juno.com Fri Oct 9 03:38:02 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (msprinzen at juno.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:38:02 GMT Subject: [Phono-L] Phonographs and related advertisements for sale Message-ID: <20091009.063802.17942.2@webmail03.dca.untd.com> Shameless plug: The electric Bubble Books in Kurt's auction are from my own collection. I can vouch that they are in really terrific condition. ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Phonographs and related advertisements for sale Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 19:10:12 EDT merle did you or anyone see kurts new catalog some rare bubble books in this time zono hope to see all at wayne ____________________________________________________________ Best Weight Loss Program - Click Here! http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTFoYdndIl0ZMo2vYTtqCVwVF0Qr2LBdoWND6mG7rBRX4etyJgi6eE/ From waykos at shaw.ca Fri Oct 9 07:36:11 2009 From: waykos at shaw.ca (wayne) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 07:36:11 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Ruth Lambert contact info needed Message-ID: Hello all!!!!.Can anyone please provide me with a current contact for Ruth Lambert in the UK please.. From backden at yahoo.com Fri Oct 9 07:43:45 2009 From: backden at yahoo.com (Dennis Back) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 07:43:45 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Ruth Lambert contact info needed In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <781994.55270.qm@web35605.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Sorry to report that Ms. Lambert passed away several years ago. Dennis --- On Fri, 10/9/09, wayne wrote: From: wayne Subject: [Phono-L] Ruth Lambert contact info needed To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Date: Friday, October 9, 2009, 10:36 AM Hello all!!!!.Can anyone please provide me with a current contact for Ruth Lambert in the UK? please.. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From majesticrecord at snet.net Fri Oct 9 15:39:55 2009 From: majesticrecord at snet.net (Glenn Longwell) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 15:39:55 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Grafonola G-2 In-Reply-To: <207064.13140.qm@web83712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <1204210502.5081911254000925886.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <207064.13140.qm@web83712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <282851.44327.qm@web83702.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Well, when it rains... Very similar to the E-2 recently I came home today with a Grafonola G-2.? This time the case is?decent but missing other things.? Needs a lid, tonearm, reproducer, crank.? Top of motor is rusty.? Won't bore everyone with all the details but it's a reasonable project machine.? Can be had for very little money or trade and I can bring to Wayne.? So if you're interested write to me off list and I can supply pictures and more details. Best email for me on this majesticrecord at snet.net Thanks, Glenn From edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com Fri Oct 9 23:20:51 2009 From: edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com (Thomas Edison) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 01:20:51 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Lark Junior Phonograph?? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Had a customer inquire about this machine. Figiure it probably dates from 1917-1919 or thereabouts. I saw a lark Junior phonograp in the window of a store. I want to know who makes it and how much it could be worth. they did not seem to know much about the player. It seem to be in great condition and it worked. It had an Edison Record on it. please let me know where I can get some infor on this machine. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/ From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Mon Oct 12 18:46:06 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 01:46:06 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording Message-ID: <1312609041.4528521255398366920.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I just received an email request from someone who is interested in obtaining an elusive and rare recording of the voice of Silent Film star Mabel Normand. Does anyone know if Mabel Normand ever made a record ? and if so, Is a sound file of her performance available ? Thanks, Bruce From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 22:11:34 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 22:11:34 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording In-Reply-To: <1312609041.4528521255398366920.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1312609041.4528521255398366920.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4ad40c14.161bf30a.67f2.4af1@mx.google.com> She probably did. Charles "Buddy" Rogers became a recording artist. I even purchased a Gloria Swanson 78 a few months back. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 6:46 PM To: 78-L Cc: Phonolist; Phono-L Subject: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording I just received an email request from someone who is interested in obtaining an elusive and rare recording of the voice of Silent Film star Mabel Normand. Does anyone know if Mabel Normand ever made a record ? and if so, Is a sound file of her performance available ? Thanks, Bruce _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.12/2431 - Release Date: 10/12/09 13:01:00 From Kuglarb at wmconnect.com Tue Oct 13 02:49:47 2009 From: Kuglarb at wmconnect.com (Kuglarb at wmconnect.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 05:49:47 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Message-ID: Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of Billy, and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at all would be greatly appreciated! Also, was Ada Jones or Aileen Stanley ever on film? Thanks to all that have responded to my questions over the months. Your valuable information and input are very much appreciated. Let's all continue to do our part in keeping this wonderful hobby alive and spinnin'! Brantley Williston, S.C. From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Oct 13 06:14:21 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:14:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording In-Reply-To: <4ad40c14.161bf30a.67f2.4af1@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <1280246884.4622521255439661864.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Yes and John Boles, and Marie Dressler as well. I also have an obscure recording of Silent Film Star Shirley Mason on a Gennett. Wonder if we can track down a mp3 or other sound file of the Mabel Normand recording (if in fact it does exist), for this film star collector. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Horenstein" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 1:11:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording She probably did. Charles "Buddy" Rogers became a recording artist. I even purchased a Gloria Swanson 78 a few months back. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sent: Monday, October 12, 2009 6:46 PM To: 78-L Cc: Phonolist; Phono-L Subject: [Phono-L] Mabel Normand Recording I just received an email request from someone who is interested in obtaining an elusive and rare recording of the voice of Silent Film star Mabel Normand. Does anyone know if Mabel Normand ever made a record ? and if so, Is a sound file of her performance available ? Thanks, Bruce _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.421 / Virus Database: 270.14.12/2431 - Release Date: 10/12/09 13:01:00 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 13 10:38:34 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 13:38:34 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Message-ID: <410-2200910213173834125@earthlink.net> Aileen could conceivably have been on film; even sound film. The first I'd ever heard of her was in the early fifties, when a couple of local stations near here (Detroit) were playing recordings by the Music Hall Varieties orchestra. To me, it was like the teens recordings in new fidelity. So,she probably came out of retirement to do those recordings, and her voice and style were as fresh as in her early days. It devaloped that the recordings were on broadcast transcriptions; probably 16 inch, and on the Thesaurus (RCA) label. Totally out of my reach, I just had to enjoy them, and remember hearing them. I had a disc recorder at the time, and cut a disc of one tune, but as most of them I made then, It came out extremely poor. But, Ada's era was so early in the days of motion picture filming, the prospects of finding footage of her would be pretty thin. But, as soon as someone says it's impossible, they're proven wrong. Let's hope it happens here!. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 10/13/2009 5:50:13 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? > > Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted > Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of Billy, > and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at all > would be greatly appreciated! > > Also, was Ada Jones or Aileen Stanley ever on film? Thanks to all that > have responded to my questions over the months. Your valuable information and > input are very much appreciated. Let's all continue to do our part in > keeping this wonderful hobby alive and spinnin'! > > Brantley > Williston, S.C. > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Tue Oct 13 14:27:24 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 17:27:24 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Does animation count? http://www.archive.org/details/FindingH1929 Courtesy of Steve Ramm. Steve > > Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted > Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of Billy, > and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at all > would be greatly appreciated! > From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Oct 13 19:22:37 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:22:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1019683245.4977081255486957393.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> That is one I would certainly like to see, I wasn't aware that he was ever filmed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Medved" To: "Phono-l" Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 5:27:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation Does animation count? http://www.archive.org/details/FindingH1929 Courtesy of Steve Ramm. Steve > > Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted > Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of Billy, > and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at all > would be greatly appreciated! > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From AGW1886 at aol.com Tue Oct 13 19:59:11 2009 From: AGW1886 at aol.com (AGW1886 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 22:59:11 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation Message-ID: In a message dated 10/13/2009 7:22:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bruce78rpm at comcast.net writes: > Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted > >Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of > Billy, > >and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at > all > >would be greatly appreciated! Billy murray was in a few musical short films. See below http://www.mainspringpress.com/murray_film-1.html Sincerely. Rick A. Jorgensen GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION http://www.geaaonline.org UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html From AGW1886 at aol.com Tue Oct 13 20:09:47 2009 From: AGW1886 at aol.com (AGW1886 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:09:47 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Message-ID: Billy Murray and the Peerless Quartette was also some of the voices in "In My Merry Oldsmobile" a Fleischer animated film from the early 30s. It may be enjoyed here on my GEAA Website........ (Scroll Down to find it) http://www.geaaonline.org/geaamovies.html Sincerely. Rick A. Jorgensen GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION http://www.geaaonline.org UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Wed Oct 14 06:30:20 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:30:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <735348155.5071661255527020706.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Does the Movie short still exist to go with the Soundtrack to Rube Minstrels ? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: AGW1886 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:59:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Billy Murray on Film? Animation In a message dated 10/13/2009 7:22:57 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bruce78rpm at comcast.net writes: > Does anyone know if Billy Murray was ever filmed? I have heard that Ted > >Turner owns the exclusive rights to the only footage that was taken of > Billy, > >and that was a cameo in a short film. Anyone having any information at > all > >would be greatly appreciated! Billy murray was in a few musical short films. See below http://www.mainspringpress.com/murray_film-1.html Sincerely. Rick A. Jorgensen GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION http://www.geaaonline.org UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From esroberto at hotmail.com Wed Oct 14 07:15:14 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 14:15:14 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Vitaphone phonograph on eBay In-Reply-To: <735348155.5071661255527020706.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: Message-ID: Item #350131429078 Totally authentic, all Western Electric parts. It looks like it's made out of pieces from an old freight train. I've seen some industrial looking heavy-duty phonographs in my time, but holy moses. Robert _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ From edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com Wed Oct 14 23:30:05 2009 From: edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com (Thomas Edison) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:30:05 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: This is kind of Terse and an angry vent. I have never recovered finacially from what happened in New York. I must apologize for what happened there. ML has really ruined my name. Larry Tedder and Thomas A Edison national Park all had not so good results either in dealings with ML. I should of known something was fishy when he contacted me and sounded like a used car salesman or a Hollywood scout. He told me he was a record producer and had connections with record companies ect, it was partiallly true, he did know some record companies, and we did go to Edison Historic site ect, and I was excited about all this. Things did go fine for the first 4 months of "Borri Records, as he called it. Borri Records was more his making than mine, what orders he actually brought into me, I made. I never wanted to really call it that anyway. The shaver in question, ML has, he also has the Edisonia reproducer, and one of my shavers, and 500 wax cylinders that I moulded and recorded and a few hundered new cylinder storage boxes. I own only 1 shaver and it is a 1905 Edison one. From what I have seen those live cylinders, when I caught 2 of them for sale, on ebay and they went from 200.00-400.00 each they were 2 moe. recording session ones M L sold about 2 years ago. He made a vidio of those and I posted them on my website, more as evidence than anything else. If the 500 or so live experimental records are worth 100.00 each then just the cylinders taken from me are worth $50,000.00. So Shawn Borri is the biggest victim of Borri Records, pretty ironic, and the whole thing still makes me sick to this day. Today I only sell what I make no matter how much anybody pleads. When I was in upstate New York, working for ML, I worked most of the 9 months in New York from 6am one day to 2am the next day, making blanks, and 5 days a week. The cylinders paid for rent and food, I never even got to see the bills or even how many cylinders were sold or anything, the email account password and ebay password were changed. By the time I caught wind of what he was doing, it was too late, I was livid. I put my tail between my legs for being nieve and headed back home. I think total during the whole venture I had $40.00 of spending money, the rest I never saw. To know that I have put in thousands of hours, actually moulded around 10,000 blanks , and probably 20,000 or more if you consider experiments and ones that went back in the pot. since the year 2,000.00 makes me sick how much New york ruined my research. There is only 2 of us in the world who has put this much time and effort in the study of blank cylinder records, Paul Morris and myself. My greatest wish in the world is to work in a museum as a full time as curator of sound recordings, making cylinder records, and teaching about acoustic record making. I work for DHS now and basically have enough money for rent bills and diapers. I do make cylinders but I really am not able to afford the upkeep on the equipment, or have as much time. I now make 2 dozen blanks a month if I am lucky. I do consider the blanks I make now, the best of the best, I am a perfectionist so still over half the ones I mould go back in the pot, and when you consider all the steps from wax to shipping 1-2 hours a blank is a low estimate. Cylinders can only be made in the fall early spring and winter, or in an air conditioned environment in the summer with a de humidifier. http://members.tripod.com/edison_1/id24.html Is my latest batch of blanks. All this resarch and the 78L crowd when I talked about cylinder composition, gave me jeers and called me a lier. I read all of Aylsworths notes, i have read all the Columbia formulas as well, and made models of these. Sincerely Shawn Borri > So I guess I really should not hold it against him. > > ---- Steven Medved wrote: > > The guy was selling the records for Shawn, he never paid Shawn and just took the money and never sent the records. Shawn did give me a record when I contacted him. Shawn was happy to make the records and was not involved with the selling. Did you ever contact him? > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2008 09:01:07 -0500> From: chrisk33 at cox.net> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] should I get Pay Pal?> > I had the same problem with Shawn Borri and it still rankles. I even > defended him to strangers because he had a good reputation. No apology, > no refund. I understand his partner screwed him over and he had severe > financial problems, which he may not yet have recovered from; and there > are people who speak well of him.> > ClockworkHome at aol.com wrote:> > YES ! ! !> > > > I actually will bid way higher with a seller using PayPal and I have gotten > > some phonographic bargains from sellers who demanded only money orders. Once > > the ease and security change your mindset you cannot go back to the old system > > relying on snail mail to deliver payment. I like the very idea that I can pay > > for an item within minutes of the auction close and do so without getting out > > of my chair. If the seller is on the ball my item arrives often > j > > ust days > > after the close.> > > > I have only been stung on eBay once by a guy selling "Borri Wax Cylinders" as > > he would not take PayPal but could cash the postal money order without > > delivering the goods. eBay pulled his account but I never got a cent or a cylinder. > > I figure that anyone who qualifies for PayPal has passed some scrutiny to > > begin with.> > > > Regards to all,> > > > Al> > > >> >> >> > **************Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial > > challenges? Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and > > calculators. (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall00000001)> > _______________________________________________> > Phono-L mailing list> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org> >> > > _______________________________________________> Phono-L mailing list> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 5, Issue 260 > *************************************** _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Free, trusted and rich email service. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222984/direct/01/ From JPisano at cox.net Thu Oct 15 15:47:52 2009 From: JPisano at cox.net (John Pisano) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 18:47:52 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Borri Records Message-ID: <4C1D2107486F470B8745F44A6952D25E@heyporter> I was also burned by Borri records. I feel bad that Shawn was taken advantage of - but my deal was made in person with Shawn and his partner at the Wayne Phono Show, not on Ebay. He was very much apart of the bartering process. I have contacted Shawn on several occasions. He has promised to make good on our deal, but never has. I finally gave up. I can't imagine the cost of 6 cylinders is worth the sacrifice of ones good name. Shawn - it is not too late! - John P. From jimcip at earthlink.net Fri Oct 16 08:23:34 2009 From: jimcip at earthlink.net (jimcip at earthlink.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:23:34 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record Message-ID: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse, categorized as "Voice and Guitar." Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman. Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record? Thanks! Jim Cartwright Immortal Performances jimcip at earthlink.net From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Oct 16 08:39:14 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 15:39:14 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record Message-ID: <2126014576-1255707549-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-794663935-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Funny, I have a Lee Morse record and she sounds like a woman, though maybe a little on the lower voiced side. Can you upload the file? And if anyome has a spare copy of her record "I've got five dollars" I am hunting for it! John Robles ------Original Message------ From: jimcip at earthlink.net Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record Sent: Oct 16, 2009 8:23 AM At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse, categorized as "Voice and Guitar." Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman. Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record? Thanks! Jim Cartwright Immortal Performances jimcip at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From majesticrecord at snet.net Fri Oct 16 09:32:20 2009 From: majesticrecord at snet.net (Glenn Longwell) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:32:20 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record In-Reply-To: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> References: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <939531.45911.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> What are the matrix numbers on the record?? Perhaps it was mislabeled. Glenn ________________________________ From: "jimcip at earthlink.net" To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:23:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse,? categorized as "Voice and Guitar."? Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman.? ? Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record?? Thanks! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jim Cartwright ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Immortal Performances ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jimcip at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Fri Oct 16 13:43:14 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:43:14 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record In-Reply-To: <939531.45911.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <221488914.6089211255725794975.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> If you have never heard Miss Morse before,?She had a deep sultry voice for a woman. So I am assuming, unless it was mislabled is in fact Lee Morse. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Longwell" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:32:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record What are the matrix numbers on the record?? Perhaps it was mislabeled. Glenn ________________________________ From: "jimcip at earthlink.net" To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:23:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse,? categorized as "Voice and Guitar."? Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman.? ? Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record?? Thanks! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jim Cartwright ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Immortal Performances ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jimcip at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Fri Oct 16 13:58:42 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:58:42 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record In-Reply-To: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <433244633.6095211255726722474.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> These were both recorded 10/5/25 by Pathe, It is Lee Morse alright !! Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: jimcip at earthlink.net To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:23:34 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse, ?categorized as "Voice and Guitar." ? Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman. ? ? Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record? ? Thanks! ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Jim Cartwright ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Immortal Performances ?? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jimcip at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Fri Oct 16 14:09:04 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 21:09:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record In-Reply-To: <939531.45911.qm@web83705.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <42840735.6098321255727344746.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> http://www.redhotjazz.com/leemorse.html A great site to read about Lee Morse, and listen to some of her recording delights. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Glenn Longwell" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 12:32:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record What are the matrix numbers on the record?? Perhaps it was mislabeled. Glenn ________________________________ From: "jimcip at earthlink.net" To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 11:23:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse,? categorized as "Voice and Guitar."? Upon playing it I heard what sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman.? ? Can anyone explain why a woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide information on this record?? Thanks! ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Jim Cartwright ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Immortal Performances ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? jimcip at earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From mtucker at exemail.com.au Fri Oct 16 19:01:36 2009 From: mtucker at exemail.com.au (Mike Tucker) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 13:01:36 +1100 Subject: [Phono-L] Class M Message-ID: <484E93FB85254A7F9005A1C00A3C8FC7@mikefb1afb33f4> For the technical minded. I have occasionally wondered what was the purpose of the screw in the topworks castings, under the mandrel, on Class M phonographs. Reading a copy of the 1893 "The Phonogram", I came across an article on "How to work the Phonograph" which noted that "if the belt slips, it needs tightening" and goes on "with a long-handled screwdriver turn the projecting screw under the mandrel a few times, which will press the body forward and tighten the belt.". The Class M's I have seen either have no screw in place or the screw goes through the casting and doesn't connect to anything, so turning the screw does precisely nothing. I must assume that there was some additional part which the screw butted against to enable it to move the topworks, but I cannot see how or where this would fit. Can anyone enlighten me? From jnichol at fuse.net Fri Oct 16 20:04:14 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:04:14 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] "Miss Lee Morse" Record In-Reply-To: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> References: <380-2200910516152334843@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <9E8F56AE-8D4B-41C1-AE41-8D10FC17FBB6@fuse.net> Why do you think it was labeled "Miss" Lee Morse? Obviously because her deep voice would confuse her gender. But she was actually good looking. Watch some of the film clips of her on Youtube. Jim On Oct 16, 2009, at 11:23 AM, jimcip at earthlink.net wrote: > At the Austin Record Convention held this past weekend I picked up a > Perfect 78rpm record, number 11596, of "My Sweetie Turned Me Down" & > "Daddy, Your Mama is Lonesome for You" sung by Miss Lee Morse, > categorized as "Voice and Guitar." Upon playing it I heard what > sounded like a man's voice very similar to Cliff Edwards > (Ukulele Ike) & certainly not a woman. Can anyone explain why a > woman's name would be used on a record sung by a man or provide > information on this record? Thanks! > > Jim > Cartwright > Immortal > Performances > > > > jimcip at earthlink.net > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andersun at tampabay.rr.com Fri Oct 16 23:54:05 2009 From: andersun at tampabay.rr.com (Steve Andersen) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 02:54:05 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Class M In-Reply-To: <484E93FB85254A7F9005A1C00A3C8FC7@mikefb1afb33f4> References: <484E93FB85254A7F9005A1C00A3C8FC7@mikefb1afb33f4> Message-ID: Mike, Please send a picture of what you are talking about and maybe I can solve it. I have never owned a Class M but I deal with belted loads in a different capacity. I sell industrial electric motors and I have to deal with belted loads all the time. Thanks, Steve On Oct 16, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Mike Tucker wrote: > For the technical minded. > > I have occasionally wondered what was the purpose of the screw in > the topworks castings, under the mandrel, on Class M phonographs. > > Reading a copy of the 1893 "The Phonogram", I came across an article > on "How to work the Phonograph" which noted that "if the belt slips, > it needs tightening" and goes on "with a long-handled screwdriver > turn the projecting screw under the mandrel a few times, which will > press the body forward and tighten the belt.". > > The Class M's I have seen either have no screw in place or the screw > goes through the casting and doesn't connect to anything, so turning > the screw does precisely nothing. > > I must assume that there was some additional part which the screw > butted against to enable it to move the topworks, but I cannot see > how or where this would fit. > > Can anyone enlighten me? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From mtucker at exemail.com.au Sat Oct 17 03:55:46 2009 From: mtucker at exemail.com.au (Mike Tucker) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:55:46 +1100 Subject: [Phono-L] Class M Message-ID: <35CF6436EBC24D9AB7FA4C1CC2300D21@mikefb1afb33f4> Many thanks for those contemplating my problem with the Class M topworks screw. Mario has provided the blindingly obvious solution which is that the screw pushes against the boss in the middle of the Class M deck ( located between the two right hand mounting blocks) and acts as firstly a stop to prevent the topworks moving to the left and slackening the drive belt, and secondly as a belt tensioner. My problem was looking at the topworks in isolation and not when it was mounted to the deck. At least I now know how to make minor tension adjustments to the drive belt on my two Class M's. Best wishes to all. Mike From edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com Sat Oct 17 07:51:10 2009 From: edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com (Thomas Edison) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 09:51:10 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Class M Belt Adjustment. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Edison patent 499879 shows the tension adjustment you speak of. "The Screw C serves to adjust the frame A on the box B for the purpose of tightening the driving belt as will be presently explained, and the lugs b' are slotted to permit this movement the screw b being finaly tightend after the proper adjustment of the driving belt has been secured." Patened June 20th, 1893 and applied for July 30, 1888. somewhere I have a few parts list for Perfected and class M phonographs. This adjustment screw is located just under the left end of the mandrel, there should be a casting that has this screw, as part of the bottom motor bedplate. This can be seen in Fig 1 of the patent. _________________________________________________________________ Your E-mail and More On-the-Go. Get Windows Live Hotmail Free. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/171222985/direct/01/ From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sat Oct 17 14:57:18 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:57:18 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD Phonograph at Glenmont In-Reply-To: <342685466.6328671255816383127.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <1603159382.6329381255816638851.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I just returned from a trip that included a visit to the Edison Historic Site and his Estate Glenmont in West Orange,N.J.. While at Glenmont I was interested in seeing whether Edison's Model A-250, shown in that famous 1914 photo of him in his Robe and Slippers with his ear up to the grill listening to music, was still there on the 2nd floor. There is an early A-250 in the center room on the 2nd Floor. What is unusual about it, is that it has the Gold (Official Laboratory Seal in the lower left hand corner), and has been retrofitted with the 10" and 12" buttons, and has the 2nd reproducer to play his son Theodore's creation (Long Play Records). This must of been specifically done for Edison, as I was always under the understanding that the A-250 was not a candidate for the Long Play retrofit. Has anyone else noticed this about the A-250 on the 2nd Floor of The Glenmont Estate ? The Tour Guide could not verify whether it was same one shown in the famous January, of 1914 Photo. Bruce From appywander at hotmail.com Sat Oct 17 17:08:52 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 20:08:52 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD Phonograph at Glenmont In-Reply-To: <1603159382.6329381255816638851.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <342685466.6328671255816383127.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Bruce, Tour Guides just love people like you (and me) who ask questions like that! LOL! > Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:57:18 +0000 > From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net > To: Phono-L at oldcrank.org > CC: Phonolist at yahoogroups.com > Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD Phonograph at Glenmont > > I just returned from a trip that included a visit to the Edison Historic Site and his Estate Glenmont in West Orange,N.J.. > While at Glenmont I was interested in seeing whether Edison's Model A-250, shown in that famous 1914 photo of him in his Robe and Slippers with his ear up to the grill listening to music, was still there on the 2nd floor. > There is an early A-250 in the center room on the 2nd Floor. What is unusual about it, is that it has the Gold (Official Laboratory Seal in the lower left hand corner), and has been retrofitted with the 10" and 12" buttons, and has the 2nd reproducer to play his son Theodore's creation (Long Play Records). This must of been specifically done for Edison, as I was always under the understanding that the A-250 was not a candidate for the Long Play retrofit. Has anyone else noticed this about the A-250 on the 2nd Floor of The Glenmont Estate ? The Tour Guide could not verify whether it was same one shown in the famous January, of 1914 Photo. > > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Sat Oct 17 21:57:50 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 23:57:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD References: <342685466.6328671255816383127.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: The microgroove record was Edison's work, not Theodore's. Theodore designed the universal electric magnetic pickup used in the C-1 and C-2 radio/phonograph combinations of 1928. T.A.s work on microgroove recordings can be noted as early as 1899. (cylinder of course) Bruce M. From jimcip at earthlink.net Sun Oct 18 08:58:08 2009 From: jimcip at earthlink.net (jimcip at earthlink.net) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:58:08 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD Message-ID: <380-220091001815588984@earthlink.net> When I visited Glenmont in 1977 what I thought was an early Diamond Disc phonograph turned out to be an Amberola - I raised the lid surreptitiously! jimcip at earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 17-Oct-2009 11:58:28 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD > > The microgroove record was Edison's work, not Theodore's. Theodore designed > the universal electric magnetic pickup used in the C-1 and C-2 > radio/phonograph combinations of 1928. T.A.s work on microgroove recordings > can be noted as early as 1899. (cylinder of course) > > Bruce M. > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From AllenAmet at aol.com Sun Oct 18 13:32:06 2009 From: AllenAmet at aol.com (AllenAmet at aol.com) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 16:32:06 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD Message-ID: In a message dated 10/18/2009 12:59:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, maxbud12 at wowway.com writes: T.A.s work on microgroove recordings can be noted as early as 1899. (cylinder of course) ----------------- Looking at our re-issued Program to the Electric Club (delivered by Ezra Gilliland on May 19, 1888), I see, on p. 9, a reference to 'brown wax' cylinders recorded at 200 tpi. Allen _www.phonobooks.com_ (http://www.phonobooks.com) From nipper at dataex.com Mon Oct 19 06:30:09 2009 From: nipper at dataex.com (Robin Rolfs) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:30:09 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site Message-ID: Greetings, We had the pleasure of attending the grand opening of the Thomas A. Edison National Historical Park and also be a vendor at the excellent Wayne phonograph show. Photo's of the events can be seen on a new website of WIMAPS at: www.wimaps.org Enjoy. Robin & Joan Rolfs Visit us at: www.audioantique.com From lherault at bu.edu Mon Oct 19 07:52:16 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:52:16 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004201ca50cb$c0410430$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Nice pictures. I think I took an identical one of the water tank. 8-) -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robin Rolfs Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:30 AM To: Phono-L Subject: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site Greetings, We had the pleasure of attending the grand opening of the Thomas A. Edison National Historical Park and also be a vendor at the excellent Wayne phonograph show. Photo's of the events can be seen on a new website of WIMAPS at: www.wimaps.org Enjoy. Robin & Joan Rolfs Visit us at: www.audioantique.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From nipper at dataex.com Mon Oct 19 11:45:31 2009 From: nipper at dataex.com (Robin Rolfs) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 13:45:31 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site References: <004201ca50cb$c0410430$77d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <7F50C3B068904BC297CDA5033FA50051@owner094cc0223> I must make a correction regarding the gentleman identified as David Slone. He is the Great-grandson of T. Edison. Madeleine was his grandmother. Appologies to all. Rob Rolfs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site > Nice pictures. I think I took an identical one of the water tank. 8-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Robin Rolfs > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 9:30 AM > To: Phono-L > Subject: [Phono-L] Photo's of Wayne Show & Edison Site > > Greetings, > > We had the pleasure of attending the grand opening of the Thomas A. Edison > National Historical Park and also be a vendor at the excellent Wayne > phonograph show. > > Photo's of the events can be seen on a new website of WIMAPS at: > www.wimaps.org > > Enjoy. > > Robin & Joan Rolfs > Visit us at: > www.audioantique.com > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From andy at popyrus.com Mon Oct 19 16:45:32 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:45:32 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work that would draw a larger population. Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community here. So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. To the subject at hand: Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of the machine, which left no doubt. There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- clearly untouched for decades. A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: Original gold V key; Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). Price, $650, minus 30%. Sold! It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math right. Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key escutcheon? I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. Kindest regards, Andy Baron From john9ten at pacbell.net Mon Oct 19 16:51:27 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:51:27 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <407643938-1255996268-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1785912624-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Fergawshsakes, what's the serial number??? Heartiest (and most jealous) congratulations! John Robles Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Baron Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:45:32 To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work that would draw a larger population. Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community here. So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. To the subject at hand: Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of the machine, which left no doubt. There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- clearly untouched for decades. A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: Original gold V key; Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). Price, $650, minus 30%. Sold! It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math right. Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key escutcheon? I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. Kindest regards, Andy Baron _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Mon Oct 19 16:59:25 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:59:25 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <407643938-1255996268-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1785912624-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <407643938-1255996268-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1785912624-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <8D9EDFC8-780A-4BFA-9C0E-DC32F38FB104@popyrus.com> Hi John and thank you for your very welcome congratulations. The serial number is 744; at the upper-middle end of the 3-digit range certainly, but still odd to see so much space in the serial number field of a Victrola. With the 30% sale price, total cost was $455.00 Andy On Oct 19, 2009, at 5:51 PM, john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: > Fergawshsakes, what's the serial number??? > Heartiest (and most jealous) congratulations! > John Robles > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Baron > Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:45:32 > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of > a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph... From kbab1 at charter.net Mon Oct 19 16:57:20 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:57:20 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? Ken B. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work that would draw a larger population. Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community here. So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. To the subject at hand: Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of the machine, which left no doubt. There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- clearly untouched for decades. A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: Original gold V key; Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). Price, $650, minus 30%. Sold! It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math right. Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key escutcheon? I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. Kindest regards, Andy Baron _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Mon Oct 19 18:13:50 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 01:13:50 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1141368329.7013001256001230650.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> what a wonderfully descriptive tale of the great unexpected find. Congratulations !! and thanks for sharing. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 7:45:32 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work that would draw a larger population. Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community here. So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. To the subject at hand: Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of the machine, which left no doubt. There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- clearly untouched for decades. A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: Original gold V key; Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). Price, $650, minus 30%. Sold! It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math right. Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key escutcheon? I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. Kindest regards, Andy Baron _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From deedeeblais at yahoo.com Mon Oct 19 19:02:40 2009 From: deedeeblais at yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 19:02:40 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Andy's VV-XVIII Message-ID: <603372.62952.qm@web113815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I enjoyed Andy's story about the Victrola XVIII. I thought about my XVIII. I plunked down big $$$, brought it home, dusted it off, and placed it in my collection. Nice, but no great story. I am fortunate to have found an early VTLA at a good price and a fun story. I would estimate that the two machine have a similar value. I love the VTLA and appreciate the XVIII. The good story is the difference. Happy Collecting, Jerry Blais From mobilityscooters at xtra.co.nz Mon Oct 19 20:26:41 2009 From: mobilityscooters at xtra.co.nz (Mobility Scooters) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:26:41 +1300 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Andy Great story! Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people must of seen it before you did in the afternoon. I would say it was waiting for you. There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the rest of your life. ha ha All the very best Tony -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? Ken B. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work that would draw a larger population. Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community here. So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. To the subject at hand: Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of the machine, which left no doubt. There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- clearly untouched for decades. A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: Original gold V key; Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). Price, $650, minus 30%. Sold! It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math right. Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key escutcheon? I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. Kindest regards, Andy Baron _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From KEEPERH2O at aol.com Mon Oct 19 20:56:56 2009 From: KEEPERH2O at aol.com (KEEPERH2O at aol.com) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 23:56:56 EDT Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: Good story, Andy! Far out! : ) Edward From kathall21 at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 20:42:37 2009 From: kathall21 at gmail.com (Kat Hall) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 21:42:37 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <0A7D69B2E5964BEF82B46BADF4EF2E1E@KatHallPC> Congratulations. You never know when you will find a gem. The thrill of finding something that you collect is exhilarating. >From the Desk of Kat Hall Executive Assistant to Ms. Smith (Publisher) Review Coordinator Author Liaison www.champagnebooks.com www.carnalpassions.com www.thewritersvineyard.com -------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew Baron" Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 5:45 PM To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some > of the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, > NM. Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > sparsely populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > other work that would draw a larger population. > > Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to > this the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > for music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > to begin with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > Standards, Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are > inevitably the models that turn up, and usually in none too good a > condition if not out of a collection. Naturally some desirable machines > were brought here later on, but by and large this hasn't amounted to > anything significant, and there isn't much of a collecting community > here. > > So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > said, I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > Edison maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand Opera were > all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. Not exactly a > small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically isolated > from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here from New > England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > To the subject at hand: > Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall > sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa > Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until > late in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > shop sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > nice, but rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph > collector, so no penalty for arriving when convenient. > > We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the > next room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd > like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > casually across the distance, through the crowds of people and things > toward the next room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines > are going to be examples of the most common models, and probably > overpriced", than I could see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII > or XVIII, just sticking out beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to > see a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > powers of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > although I already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > phono-L member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl > of the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing > the machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern > and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of > the machine, which left no doubt. > > There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of > the differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > eyes. The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > New Mexico Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its > edges and trim scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in > generally good and very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that > broken-off upper rear corner piece. Definitely not something out of > someone's phonograph collection, and just as you like to find them -- > clearly untouched for decades. > > A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > Original gold V key; > Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; > Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > sitting on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; > Near perfect felt on the platter; > Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition soundbox, Ser. #87347B, > never rebuilt; > Very, very dirty under the lid and in general (what is this greasy, black > stuff?); > Most of the record storage area filled with (non-Victor) matched albums > full of classical records, and otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet > music; > Missing the lower key escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that > maddeningly absent corner curl). > > Price, $650, minus 30%. > > Sold! > > It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > intimately familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this > model is so prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a > respectable original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied > elbow grease and the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors > on the back with their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice > compartment came as a complete surprise. You never see this view in the > books. The motor is relatively clean (very little of the usual greasy > build-up, just a yellowed film of old hard residue). A couple drops of > oil in all the pertinent places, and a light coat of fresh grease on the > governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. Even the speed > indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when winding down > though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and rebuild when I > attend to those noisy springs. > > Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of > Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total 1906 - > 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman > numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one > percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than > half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math > right. > > Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- > plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off > upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > cabinet. It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a > key escutcheon? > > I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > accurately conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries > for those of you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > Kindest regards, > Andy Baron > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Tue Oct 20 09:44:08 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:44:08 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me References: Message-ID: <061657D627AD41D8AB6D6EDEBC0DD88F@Vaio> Wow! Thrilling story. The best part is finding the broken corner piece. That would have REALLY made my day. Congratulations, Bruce M. From maxbud12 at wowway.com Tue Oct 20 10:20:25 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:20:25 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison's A-250 DD References: Message-ID: <703B7ADDCCC4490683763AB22691DD02@Vaio> That's interesting to know, thanks. Of course all of the four minute records were recorded at 200 tpi. Still an achievement that early in the game. The 1899 cylinder I speak of was 450 tpi. (I am going to check this out for certainty as that number is from memory) If I'm wrong on that number I will repost the correct tpi. Bruce M > > In a message dated 10/18/2009 12:59:10 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > maxbud12 at wowway.com writes: > > T.A.s work on microgroove recordings > can be noted as early as 1899. (cylinder of course) > > > > ----------------- > Looking at our re-issued Program to the Electric Club (delivered by Ezra > Gilliland on May 19, 1888), I see, on p. 9, a reference to 'brown wax' > cylinders recorded at 200 tpi. > > Allen > _www.phonobooks.com_ (http://www.phonobooks.com) > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Tue Oct 20 11:28:35 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:28:35 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Ken ~ As timing would have it (of course), I'm on a deadline this week, but will try to find time within the next couple of days (hopefully) to post some photos and post a link in Phono-L. I wanted to take some "before" pictures, but the urge to start cleaning the cabinet (with just a little Howard's Restore-A-Finish) won out. Still, it's going to take quite a lot of gentle, observant and conscientious scrubbing to really bring out the glow that I know is going to be there. So, I'll get some photos before I start on this in earnest. Andy On Oct 19, 2009, at 5:57 PM, Ken and Brenda Brekke wrote: > Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > Ken B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of Andrew Baron > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > some of > the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa > Fe, NM. > Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely > populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > other work > that would draw a larger population. > > Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add > to this > the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > for > music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > to begin > with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > Standards, > Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the > models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not > out of > a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > later on, > but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > there > isn't much of a collecting community here. > > So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That > being said, > I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > Edison > maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > geographically > isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought > here > from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > To the subject at hand: > Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > Fall > sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > Santa > Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > until late > in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > shop > sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > nice, but > rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so > no > penalty for arriving when convenient. > > We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > the next > room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > that I'd > like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > casually > across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > the next > room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > to be > examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I > could > see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > sticking out > beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > mind to see > a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > powers > of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I > already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L > member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > curl of > the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > bashing the > machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > pattern > and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > front of > the machine, which left no doubt. > > There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > of the > differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > eyes. > The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > New Mexico > Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > and trim > scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > good and > very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > rear > corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > collection, and just as you like to find them > -- clearly untouched for decades. > > A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > Original gold V key; > Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > back; > Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > sitting > on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > Exhibition > soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > lid and in > general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > storage area > filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and > otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key > escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > curl). > > Price, $650, minus 30%. > > Sold! > > It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > intimately > familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so > prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > grease and > the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > with > their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > complete > surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > relatively > clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > film of old > hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > and a > light coat of fresh > grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > awful when > winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > and > rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > number of > Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > (Roman > numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one > percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > than > half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math > right. > > Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > gold- > plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off > upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > cabinet. > It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > escutcheon? > > I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > accurately > conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > those of > you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > Kindest regards, > Andy Baron > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Tue Oct 20 11:37:52 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:37:52 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Andy's VV-XVIII In-Reply-To: <603372.62952.qm@web113815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <603372.62952.qm@web113815.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Jerry for sharing your thoughts on this. It does seem to make a difference when there's an element of excitement to the discovery. I think it creates an indelible, positive association that remains always with the machine, for as long as the machine is owned and probably even beyond that. Andy On Oct 19, 2009, at 8:02 PM, DeeDee Blais wrote: > I enjoyed Andy's story about the Victrola XVIII. I thought about my > XVIII. I plunked down big $$$, brought it home, dusted it off, and > placed it in my collection. Nice, but no great story. I am > fortunate to have found an early VTLA at a good price and a fun > story. I would estimate that the two machine have a similar > value. I love the VTLA and appreciate the XVIII. The good story is > the difference. Happy Collecting, Jerry Blais > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Tue Oct 20 11:40:37 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:40:37 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I also thought of the fact that there must have been several hundred shoppers that walked right by it. We didn't get there until around 4pm. It was sticking out a foot or so into the opening between the two big rooms such that you nearly had to side-step it to avoid bumping into it. Andy On Oct 19, 2009, at 9:26 PM, Mobility Scooters wrote: > Andy > Great story! > Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > must of > seen it before you did in the afternoon. > I would say it was waiting for you. > There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > rest of > your life. ha ha > All the very best > Tony From andy at popyrus.com Tue Oct 20 11:47:23 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:47:23 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <061657D627AD41D8AB6D6EDEBC0DD88F@Vaio> References: <061657D627AD41D8AB6D6EDEBC0DD88F@Vaio> Message-ID: <6C83478F-98FD-4247-930A-E9A2269EF65F@popyrus.com> Thanks, Bruce ~ The moment I found that rear upper corner curl, I immediately felt like I got 20 hours back in my life, and a better quality repair at the same time. I looked for the piece before I bought it but it was too dark to see deep inside the cabinet. The best part is that there are no peripheral chips. It's going to be a very clean and practically seamless repair. Andy On Oct 20, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Bruce Mercer wrote: > Wow! Thrilling story. The best part is finding the broken corner > piece. That would have REALLY made my day. > Congratulations, > Bruce M. > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Tue Oct 20 15:46:00 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:46:00 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-220091022022460125@earthlink.net> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to realize just what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, regardless of condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One spring was broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with Go-Jo made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > [Original Message] > From: Mobility Scooters > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Andy > Great story! > Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people must of > seen it before you did in the afternoon. > I would say it was waiting for you. > There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the rest of > your life. ha ha > All the very best > Tony > > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On > Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > Ken B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Andrew Baron > Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of some of > the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in Santa Fe, NM. > Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty sparsely > populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or other work > that would draw a larger population. > > Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. Add to this > the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized for > music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs to begin > with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison Standards, > Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably the > models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if not out of > a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here later on, > but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and there > isn't much of a collecting community here. > > So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being said, > I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, Edison > maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are geographically > isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was brought here > from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > To the subject at hand: > Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual Fall > sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of Santa > Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait until late > in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the shop > sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite nice, but > rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, so no > penalty for arriving when convenient. > > We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in the next > room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said that I'd > like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed casually > across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward the next > room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going to be > examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than I could > see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just sticking out > beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my mind to see > a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my powers > of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find although I > already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful phono-L > member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top curl of > the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from bashing the > machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer pattern > and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the front of > the machine, which left no doubt. > > There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware of the > differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own eyes. > The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New Mexico > Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges and trim > scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally good and > very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper rear > corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > collection, and just as you like to find them > -- clearly untouched for decades. > > A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > Original gold V key; > Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and back; > Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still sitting > on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold Exhibition > soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the lid and in > general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record storage area > filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, and > otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower key > escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner curl). > > Price, $650, minus 30%. > > Sold! > > It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more intimately > familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is so > prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow grease and > the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back with > their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a complete > surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is relatively > clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed film of old > hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, and a > light coat of fresh > grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something awful when > winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down and > rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the number of > Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total (Roman > numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of one > percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less than > half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my math > right. > > Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the gold- > plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken-off > upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the cabinet. > It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > escutcheon? > > I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and accurately > conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for those of > you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > Kindest regards, > Andy Baron > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Wed Oct 21 06:31:39 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:31:39 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <410-220091022022460125@earthlink.net> References: <410-220091022022460125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <62857580-DEBA-413D-821F-B48C78AEC009@popyrus.com> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will soon regain its. I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. Andy On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > realize just > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > regardless of > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > spring was > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > Go-Jo > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Mobility Scooters >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> Andy >> Great story! >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >> must of >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >> I would say it was waiting for you. >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >> rest > of >> your life. ha ha >> All the very best >> Tony >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> ]On >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >> Ken B. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> ] > On >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >> some > of >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >> >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >> Santa Fe, > NM. >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >> sparsely >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >> other work >> that would draw a larger population. >> >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >> Add to > this >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >> for >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >> to > begin >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > Standards, >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >> the >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >> not out > of >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >> later > on, >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >> there >> isn't much of a collecting community here. >> >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > said, >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >> Edison >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > geographically >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >> brought here >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >> >> To the subject at hand: >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >> Fall >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >> Santa >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >> until > late >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >> shop >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >> nice, > but >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >> so no >> penalty for arriving when convenient. >> >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >> the next >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >> that I'd >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >> casually >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >> the > next >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >> to be >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >> I could >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >> sticking out >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >> >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >> mind to > see >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >> powers >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >> although I >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >> phono-L >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >> >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >> curl > of >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >> bashing the >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >> pattern >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >> front of >> the machine, which left no doubt. >> >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >> of the >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >> eyes. >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > Mexico >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >> and > trim >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >> good and >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >> rear >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >> collection, and just as you like to find them >> -- clearly untouched for decades. >> >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >> Original gold V key; >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >> back; >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > sitting >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >> Exhibition >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >> lid and > in >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >> storage > area >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >> and >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >> key >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >> curl). >> >> Price, $650, minus 30%. >> >> Sold! >> >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > intimately >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >> so >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >> grease and >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >> with >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > complete >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >> relatively >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >> film of > old >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >> and a >> light coat of fresh >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >> awful > when >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >> and >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >> >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >> number of >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >> (Roman >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >> one >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >> than >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >> math >> right. >> >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >> gold- >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >> off >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > cabinet. >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >> escutcheon? >> >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > accurately >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >> those > of >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >> >> Kindest regards, >> Andy Baron >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Wed Oct 21 20:16:18 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:16:18 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the finish is as new. I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the one for auction, Victor changed name plates. At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Baron > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > soon regain its. > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > Andy > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > realize just > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > regardless of > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > spring was > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > Go-Jo > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Mobility Scooters > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> Andy > >> Great story! > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > >> must of > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > >> rest > > of > >> your life. ha ha > >> All the very best > >> Tony > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> ]On > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > >> Ken B. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> ] > > On > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > >> some > > of > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > >> > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > >> Santa Fe, > > NM. > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > >> sparsely > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > >> other work > >> that would draw a larger population. > >> > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > >> Add to > > this > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > >> for > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > >> to > > begin > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > Standards, > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > >> the > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > >> not out > > of > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > >> later > > on, > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > >> there > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > >> > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > said, > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > >> Edison > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > geographically > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > >> brought here > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > >> > >> To the subject at hand: > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > >> Fall > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > >> Santa > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > >> until > > late > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > >> shop > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > >> nice, > > but > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > >> so no > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > >> > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > >> the next > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > >> that I'd > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > >> casually > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > >> the > > next > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > >> to be > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > >> I could > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > >> sticking out > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > >> > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > >> mind to > > see > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > >> powers > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > >> although I > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > >> phono-L > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > >> > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > >> curl > > of > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > >> bashing the > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > >> pattern > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > >> front of > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > >> > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > >> of the > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > >> eyes. > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > Mexico > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > >> and > > trim > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > >> good and > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > >> rear > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > >> > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > >> Original gold V key; > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > >> back; > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > sitting > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > >> Exhibition > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > >> lid and > > in > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > >> storage > > area > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > >> and > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > >> key > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > >> curl). > >> > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > >> > >> Sold! > >> > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > intimately > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > >> so > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > >> grease and > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > >> with > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > complete > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > >> relatively > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > >> film of > > old > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > >> and a > >> light coat of fresh > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > >> awful > > when > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > >> and > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > >> > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > >> number of > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > >> (Roman > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > >> one > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > >> than > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > >> math > >> right. > >> > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > >> gold- > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > >> off > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > cabinet. > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > >> escutcheon? > >> > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > accurately > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > >> those > > of > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > >> > >> Kindest regards, > >> Andy Baron > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From wavesllc at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 05:27:13 2009 From: wavesllc at gmail.com (Charlotte Mager) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 08:27:13 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com From lherault at bu.edu Thu Oct 22 06:44:28 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:44:28 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <004701ca531d$c6d16890$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> That grime served to protect the finish, I guess. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 11:16 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the finish is as new. I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the one for auction, Victor changed name plates. At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Baron > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > soon regain its. > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > Andy > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > realize just > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > regardless of > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > spring was > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > Go-Jo > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Mobility Scooters > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> Andy > >> Great story! > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > >> must of > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > >> rest > > of > >> your life. ha ha > >> All the very best > >> Tony > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> ]On > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > >> Ken B. > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> ] > > On > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > >> some > > of > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > >> > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > >> Santa Fe, > > NM. > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > >> sparsely > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > >> other work > >> that would draw a larger population. > >> > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > >> Add to > > this > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > >> for > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > >> to > > begin > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > Standards, > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > >> the > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > >> not out > > of > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > >> later > > on, > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > >> there > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > >> > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > said, > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > >> Edison > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > geographically > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > >> brought here > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > >> > >> To the subject at hand: > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > >> Fall > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > >> Santa > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > >> until > > late > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > >> shop > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > >> nice, > > but > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > >> so no > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > >> > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > >> the next > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > >> that I'd > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > >> casually > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > >> the > > next > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > >> to be > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > >> I could > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > >> sticking out > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > >> > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > >> mind to > > see > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > >> powers > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > >> although I > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > >> phono-L > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > >> > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > >> curl > > of > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > >> bashing the > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > >> pattern > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > >> front of > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > >> > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > >> of the > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > >> eyes. > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > Mexico > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > >> and > > trim > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > >> good and > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > >> rear > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > >> > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > >> Original gold V key; > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > >> back; > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > sitting > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > >> Exhibition > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > >> lid and > > in > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > >> storage > > area > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > >> and > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > >> key > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > >> curl). > >> > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > >> > >> Sold! > >> > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > intimately > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > >> so > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > >> grease and > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > >> with > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > complete > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > >> relatively > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > >> film of > > old > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > >> and a > >> light coat of fresh > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > >> awful > > when > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > >> and > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > >> > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > >> number of > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > >> (Roman > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > >> one > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > >> than > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > >> math > >> right. > >> > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > >> gold- > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > >> off > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > cabinet. > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > >> escutcheon? > >> > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > accurately > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > >> those > > of > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > >> > >> Kindest regards, > >> Andy Baron > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From tomj33 at msn.com Thu Oct 22 08:17:53 2009 From: tomj33 at msn.com (Tom Jordan) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:17:53 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Thu Oct 22 08:58:04 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:58:04 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by L&D, I think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jordan Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From majesticrecord at snet.net Thu Oct 22 09:04:04 2009 From: majesticrecord at snet.net (Glenn Longwell) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:04:04 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> <005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <99228.68678.qm@web83711.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners would you still use anything else after the cleaner?to prepare the surface? Glenn ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.? I use a product by L&D, I think it is? that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease stains (which it does well, by the way).? The brand is not as important as not having pumice.? It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jordan Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer.? Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased?? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas.? Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.? The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my? VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of? how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!!? Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.? Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection.? Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers.? The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off.? This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.? Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room.? We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.? We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room.? No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination.? Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.? I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola.? This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece.? Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized.? It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations.? The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise.? You never see this view in the books.? The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue).? A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works.? The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era).? This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface.? Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From durand7920 at cox.net Thu Oct 22 09:13:38 2009 From: durand7920 at cox.net (Don Durand) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:38 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto stores. P.S., It is very inexpensive. Good luck, Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jordan" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including >a > hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring > to > and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean > it? > Thank you. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by > going > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > Charlotte aka Waves > http://www.wavesllc.com > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > wrote: > >> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup >> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my >> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > time >> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >> the >> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. >> >> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > the >> finish is as new. >> >> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > phonographs. >> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a >> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >> >> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >> few >> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > an >> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the >> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >> >> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking >> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo >> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a >> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I >> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >> >> >> > [Original Message] >> > From: Andrew Baron >> > To: Antique Phonograph List >> > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> > >> > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >> > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >> > soon regain its. >> > >> > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >> > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >> > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >> > >> > Andy >> > >> > >> > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >> > >> > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >> > > realize just >> > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >> > > regardless of >> > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >> > > spring was >> > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >> > > Go-Jo >> > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >> > > >> > > >> > >> [Original Message] >> > >> From: Mobility Scooters >> > >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >> > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> > >> >> > >> Andy >> > >> Great story! >> > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >> > >> must of >> > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >> > >> I would say it was waiting for you. >> > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >> > >> rest >> > > of >> > >> your life. ha ha >> > >> All the very best >> > >> Tony >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> > >> ]On >> > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >> > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >> > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> > >> >> > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >> > >> Ken B. >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> > >> ] >> > > On >> > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >> > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >> > >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> > >> >> > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >> > >> some >> > > of >> > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >> > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >> > >> >> > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more >> > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >> > >> Santa Fe, >> > > NM. >> > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >> > >> sparsely >> > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >> > >> other work >> > >> that would draw a larger population. >> > >> >> > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >> > >> Add to >> > > this >> > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >> > >> for >> > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >> > >> to >> > > begin >> > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >> > > Standards, >> > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >> > >> the >> > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >> > >> not out >> > > of >> > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >> > >> later >> > > on, >> > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >> > >> there >> > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. >> > >> >> > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >> > >> being >> > > said, >> > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >> > >> Edison >> > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >> > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. >> > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >> > > geographically >> > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >> > >> brought here >> > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >> > >> >> > >> To the subject at hand: >> > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >> > >> Fall >> > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >> > >> Santa >> > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >> > >> until >> > > late >> > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >> > >> shop >> > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >> > >> nice, >> > > but >> > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >> > >> so no >> > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. >> > >> >> > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >> > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >> > >> the next >> > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we >> > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >> > >> that I'd >> > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >> > >> casually >> > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >> > >> the >> > > next >> > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >> > >> to be >> > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >> > >> I could >> > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >> > >> sticking out >> > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >> > >> >> > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >> > >> mind to >> > > see >> > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >> > >> powers >> > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >> > >> although I >> > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >> > >> phono-L >> > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >> > >> >> > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >> > >> curl >> > > of >> > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >> > >> bashing the >> > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >> > >> fine, >> > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >> > >> pattern >> > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >> > >> front of >> > >> the machine, which left no doubt. >> > >> >> > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >> > >> New >> > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >> > >> of the >> > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >> > >> eyes. >> > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >> > >> New >> > > Mexico >> > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >> > >> and >> > > trim >> > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >> > >> good and >> > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >> > >> rear >> > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >> > >> collection, and just as you like to find them >> > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. >> > >> >> > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >> > >> Original gold V key; >> > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >> > >> back; >> > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >> > > sitting >> > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >> > >> Near >> > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >> > >> Exhibition >> > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >> > >> lid and >> > > in >> > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >> > >> storage >> > > area >> > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >> > >> and >> > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >> > >> key >> > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >> > >> curl). >> > >> >> > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. >> > >> >> > >> Sold! >> > >> >> > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >> > > intimately >> > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >> > >> so >> > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable >> > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >> > >> grease and >> > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >> > >> with >> > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >> > > complete >> > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >> > >> relatively >> > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >> > >> film of >> > > old >> > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >> > >> and a >> > >> light coat of fresh >> > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >> > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >> > >> awful >> > > when >> > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >> > >> and >> > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >> > >> >> > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >> > >> number of >> > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >> > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >> > >> (Roman >> > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >> > >> one >> > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >> > >> than >> > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >> > >> math >> > >> right. >> > >> >> > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >> > >> gold- >> > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >> > >> off >> > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >> > > cabinet. >> > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >> > >> escutcheon? >> > >> >> > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >> > > accurately >> > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >> > >> those >> > > of >> > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >> > >> >> > >> Kindest regards, >> > >> Andy Baron >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Phono-L mailing list >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Phono-L mailing list >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > >> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Phono-L mailing list >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Phono-L mailing list >> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > > > -- > NEW ADDRESS > Showplace Antique Center > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > NY NY 10010 > t. 212-273-9616 > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > http://www.wavesllc.com > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From esroberto at hotmail.com Thu Oct 22 09:47:20 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:47:20 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: SURELY you must mean WITHOUT pumice, Don. No one would wipe sand all over a wood finish. > From: durand7920 at cox.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:38 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without > disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto stores. > P.S., It is very inexpensive. > Good luck, > Don _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Oct 22 10:14:53 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:14:53 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <99252876-1256231688-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-120092578-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I was concerned about that too.. ------Original Message------ From: Robert Wright Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: Phono L ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Sent: Oct 22, 2009 9:47 AM SURELY you must mean WITHOUT pumice, Don. No one would wipe sand all over a wood finish. > From: durand7920 at cox.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:38 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without > disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto stores. > P.S., It is very inexpensive. > Good luck, > Don _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From lherault at bu.edu Thu Oct 22 10:55:34 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:55:34 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <99228.68678.qm@web83711.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net><005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> <99228.68678.qm@web83711.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <006a01ca5340$daa74c90$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> It does leave a little lanolin on the surface I think. I usually do a quick spray and wipe with Fantastic (which also does not seem to hurt the shellac as far as I can tell. I tested it on a shiny part of a 78 and didn't see any cloudiness. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Longwell Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners would you still use anything else after the cleaner?to prepare the surface? Glenn ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.? I use a product by L&D, I think it is? that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease stains (which it does well, by the way).? The brand is not as important as not having pumice.? It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jordan Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer.? Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased?? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas.? Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.? The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my? VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of? how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!!? Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.? Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection.? Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers.? The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off.? This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.? Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room.? We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.? We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room.? No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination.? Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.? I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola.? This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece.? Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized.? It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations.? The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise.? You never see this view in the books.? The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue).? A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works.? The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era).? This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface.? Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Oct 22 11:04:04 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:04:04 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <006a01ca5340$daa74c90$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net><005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu><99228.68678.qm@web83711.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><006a01ca5340$daa74c90$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1525524348-1256234638-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1164485495-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Be careful with fantastick and 409 as they will mar glass! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Ron L'Herault" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:55:34 To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It does leave a little lanolin on the surface I think. I usually do a quick spray and wipe with Fantastic (which also does not seem to hurt the shellac as far as I can tell. I tested it on a shiny part of a 78 and didn't see any cloudiness. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Longwell Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners would you still use anything else after the cleaner?to prepare the surface? Glenn ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.? I use a product by L&D, I think it is? that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease stains (which it does well, by the way).? The brand is not as important as not having pumice.? It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jordan Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer.? Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased?? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas.? Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.? The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my? VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of? how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!!? Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.? Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection.? Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers.? The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off.? This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.? Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room.? We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.? We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room.? No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination.? Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.? I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola.? This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece.? Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized.? It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations.? The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise.? You never see this view in the books.? The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue).? A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works.? The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era).? This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface.? Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Thu Oct 22 11:20:18 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:20:18 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <1525524348-1256234638-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1164485495-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net><005701ca5330$70a46cc0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu><99228.68678.qm@web83711.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><006a01ca5340$daa74c90$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1525524348-1256234638-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1164485495-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <006e01ca5344$4f7ec4f0$4dd6299b@ad.bu.edu> Very true. Fortunately, they are two different materials. If the cleaners etched or otherwise harmed the shellac, it should show up as cloudiness on the shinny shellac surface of the 78 runout. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john9ten at pacbell.net Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 2:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Be careful with fantastick and 409 as they will mar glass! John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: "Ron L'Herault" Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 13:55:34 To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It does leave a little lanolin on the surface I think. I usually do a quick spray and wipe with Fantastic (which also does not seem to hurt the shellac as far as I can tell. I tested it on a shiny part of a 78 and didn't see any cloudiness. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Longwell Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners would you still use anything else after the cleaner?to prepare the surface? Glenn ________________________________ From: Ron L'Herault To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.? I use a product by L&D, I think it is? that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease stains (which it does well, by the way).? The brand is not as important as not having pumice.? It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Tom Jordan Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a hand sanitizer.? Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to and where it can be purchased?? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? Thank you. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Charlotte Mager Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going to http://www.victor-victrola.com Charlotte aka Waves http://www.wavesllc.com On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first time > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, the > finish is as new. > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these phonographs. > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had an > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Andrew Baron > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > Thanks, Douglas.? Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > soon regain its. > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.? The black > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > Andy > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > I've had my? VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > realize just > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > regardless of > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > spring was > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > Go-Jo > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Andy > > >> Great story! > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of? how many people > > >> must of > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > >> rest > > > of > > >> your life. ha ha > > >> All the very best > > >> Tony > > >> > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ]On > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> Congrats!!!!? Any chance of posting pictures??? > > >> Ken B. > > >> > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > >> ] > > > On > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > >> > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > >> some > > > of > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > >> > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > >> Santa Fe, > > > NM. > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > >> sparsely > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > >> other work > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > >> > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > >> Add to > > > this > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > >> for > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > >> to > > > begin > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.? Edison > > > Standards, > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > >> the > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > >> not out > > > of > > >> a collection.? Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > >> later > > > on, > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > >> there > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > >> > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > said, > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > >> Edison > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > geographically > > >> isolated from the big population centers.? The Zonophone was > > >> brought here > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > >> > > >> To the subject at hand: > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > >> Fall > > >> sale; everything 30% off.? This event draws what seems like half of > > >> Santa > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > >> until > > > late > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.? Anyway, most of what the > > >> shop > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > >> nice, > > > but > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > >> so no > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > >> > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > >> the next > > >> room.? We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > >> that I'd > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.? We headed > > >> casually > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > >> the > > > next > > >> room.? No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > >> to be > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > >> I could > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > >> sticking out > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > >> > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > >> mind to > > > see > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > >> powers > > >> of imagination.? Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > >> although I > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > >> phono-L > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > >> > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > >> curl > > > of > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > >> bashing the > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.? I also noticed the fine, > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > >> pattern > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > >> front of > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > >> > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > >> of the > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > >> eyes. > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > Mexico > > >> Victrola.? This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > >> and > > > trim > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > >> good and > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > >> rear > > >> corner piece.? Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > >> > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > >> Original gold V key; > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > >> back; > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > sitting > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > >> Exhibition > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > >> lid and > > > in > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > >> storage > > > area > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > >> and > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > >> key > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > >> curl). > > >> > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > >> > > >> Sold! > > >> > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > intimately > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > >> so > > >> prized.? It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > >> grease and > > >> the appropriate preparations.? The fancy work and doors on the back > > >> with > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > complete > > >> surprise.? You never see this view in the books.? The motor is > > >> relatively > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > >> film of > > > old > > >> hard residue).? A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > >> and a > > >> light coat of fresh > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > >> Even the speed indicator works.? The main springs thud something > > >> awful > > > when > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > >> and > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > >> > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > >> number of > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > >> (Roman > > >> numeral model-number era).? This equates to less than one-tenth of > > >> one > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > >> than > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > >> math > > >> right. > > >> > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > >> gold- > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > >> off > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > cabinet. > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface.? Anyone got a key > > >> escutcheon? > > >> > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > accurately > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > >> those > > > of > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > >> > > >> Kindest regards, > > >> Andy Baron > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > >> > > >>_______________________________________________ > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >_______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > -- NEW ADDRESS Showplace Antique Center 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 NY NY 10010 t. 212-273-9616 NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT http://www.wavesllc.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From durand7920 at cox.net Thu Oct 22 11:38:55 2009 From: durand7920 at cox.net (Don Durand) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:38:55 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: No Robert, I mean WITH pumice. The pumice is so fine that it doesn't harm normal finishes. I would not recommend it for a piece with a French polish finish and of course, you must use only light to moderate pressure. Try it first on oak until you get the feel of it. It works particularly well on Oak. As Ron said on a later post, it does leave a little lanolin on the surface and that together with any residual pumice should be wiped off with a clean, soft cloth. Ron says that Fantastic works; I have only ever used a soft, dry cloth. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Wright" To: "Phono L" Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:47 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > SURELY you must mean WITHOUT pumice, Don. No one would wipe sand all over > a wood finish. > > > >> From: durand7920 at cox.net >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:38 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without >> disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto >> stores. >> P.S., It is very inexpensive. >> Good luck, >> Don > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From esroberto at hotmail.com Thu Oct 22 12:25:55 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:25:55 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: <410-220091042231618125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: My apologies, Don! But that is something I will never, ever try. Of course, I did just purchase a complete Cheney phonograph that has definitely not been stored well, so ya never know. :) Robert > From: durand7920 at cox.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:38:55 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > No Robert, I mean WITH pumice. The pumice is so fine that it doesn't harm > normal finishes. I would not recommend it for a piece with a French polish > finish and of course, you must use only light to moderate pressure. Try it > first on oak until you get the feel of it. It works particularly well on > Oak. > > As Ron said on a later post, it does leave a little lanolin on the surface > and that together with any residual pumice should be wiped off with a clean, > soft cloth. Ron says that Fantastic works; I have only ever used a soft, > dry cloth. > > Don > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Wright" > To: "Phono L" > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:47 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > SURELY you must mean WITHOUT pumice, Don. No one would wipe sand all over > > a wood finish. > > > > > > > >> From: durand7920 at cox.net > >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > >> Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 12:13:38 -0400 > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without > >> disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto > >> stores. > >> P.S., It is very inexpensive. > >> Good luck, > >> Don > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Windows 7: It helps you do more. Explore Windows 7. > > http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen3:102009 > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _________________________________________________________________ Windows 7: It works the way you want. Learn more. http://www.microsoft.com/Windows/windows-7/default.aspx?ocid=PID24727::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WWL_WIN_evergreen2:102009 From cdh041 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 13:12:10 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:12:10 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. > [Original Message] > From: Ron L'Herault > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by L&D, I > think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the > supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease > stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as > not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut > through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Jordan > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a > hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to > and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? > Thank you. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > Charlotte aka Waves > http://www.wavesllc.com > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > wrote: > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > time > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > the > > finish is as new. > > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > phonographs. > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > an > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Andrew Baron > > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > > soon regain its. > > > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > > realize just > > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > > regardless of > > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > > spring was > > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > > Go-Jo > > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> Andy > > > >> Great story! > > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > > >> must of > > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > > >> rest > > > > of > > > >> your life. ha ha > > > >> All the very best > > > >> Tony > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > >> ]On > > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > > >> Ken B. > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > >> ] > > > > On > > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > > >> some > > > > of > > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > > >> > > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > > >> Santa Fe, > > > > NM. > > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > > >> sparsely > > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > > >> other work > > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > > >> > > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > > >> Add to > > > > this > > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > > >> for > > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > > >> to > > > > begin > > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > > Standards, > > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > > >> the > > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > > >> not out > > > > of > > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > > >> later > > > > on, > > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > > >> there > > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > > >> > > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > > said, > > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > > >> Edison > > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > > geographically > > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > > >> brought here > > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > > >> > > > >> To the subject at hand: > > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > > >> Fall > > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > > >> Santa > > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > > >> until > > > > late > > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > > >> shop > > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > > >> nice, > > > > but > > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > > >> so no > > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > > >> > > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > > >> the next > > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > > >> that I'd > > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > > >> casually > > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > > >> the > > > > next > > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > > >> to be > > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > > >> I could > > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > > >> sticking out > > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > > >> > > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > > >> mind to > > > > see > > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > > >> powers > > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > > >> although I > > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > > >> phono-L > > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > > >> > > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > > >> curl > > > > of > > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > > >> bashing the > > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the fine, > > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > > >> pattern > > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > > >> front of > > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > > >> > > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > > >> of the > > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > > >> eyes. > > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > > Mexico > > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > > >> and > > > > trim > > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > > >> good and > > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > > >> rear > > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > > >> > > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > > >> Original gold V key; > > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > > >> back; > > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > > sitting > > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > > >> Exhibition > > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > > >> lid and > > > > in > > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > > >> storage > > > > area > > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > > >> and > > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > > >> key > > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > > >> curl). > > > >> > > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > > >> > > > >> Sold! > > > >> > > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > > intimately > > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > > >> so > > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > > >> grease and > > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > > >> with > > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > > complete > > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > > >> relatively > > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > > >> film of > > > > old > > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > > >> and a > > > >> light coat of fresh > > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > > >> awful > > > > when > > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > > >> and > > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > > >> > > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > > >> number of > > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > > >> (Roman > > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > > >> one > > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > > >> than > > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > > >> math > > > >> right. > > > >> > > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > > >> gold- > > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > > >> off > > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > > cabinet. > > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > > >> escutcheon? > > > >> > > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > > accurately > > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > > >> those > > > > of > > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > > >> > > > >> Kindest regards, > > > >> Andy Baron > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > -- > NEW ADDRESS > Showplace Antique Center > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > NY NY 10010 > t. 212-273-9616 > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > http://www.wavesllc.com > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 13:13:56 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:13:56 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-22009104222013560@earthlink.net> Without disturbing the patina???? Good Grief!!! > [Original Message] > From: Don Durand > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/22/2009 12:30:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Go-Jo with pumice works very well and removes the dirt and grime without > disturbing the patina. You can find Go-Jo at most hardware and auto stores. > P.S., It is very inexpensive. > Good luck, > Don > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tom Jordan" > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:17 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including > >a > > hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring > > to > > and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean > > it? > > Thank you. > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by > > going > > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > > > Charlotte aka Waves > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > > wrote: > > > >> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > >> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > >> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > >> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > >> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > > time > >> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on > >> the > >> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > >> > >> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > >> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > >> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > > the > >> finish is as new. > >> > >> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > > phonographs. > >> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > >> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > >> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > >> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > >> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > >> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > >> > >> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > >> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A > >> few > >> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > > an > >> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > >> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > >> > >> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > >> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > >> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > >> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > >> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > >> > >> > >> > [Original Message] > >> > From: Andrew Baron > >> > To: Antique Phonograph List > >> > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > > >> > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > >> > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > >> > soon regain its. > >> > > >> > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > >> > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > >> > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > >> > > >> > Andy > >> > > >> > > >> > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > >> > > >> > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > >> > > realize just > >> > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > >> > > regardless of > >> > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > >> > > spring was > >> > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > >> > > Go-Jo > >> > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > >> > > > >> > > > >> > >> [Original Message] > >> > >> From: Mobility Scooters > >> > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> > >> > >> Andy > >> > >> Great story! > >> > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > >> > >> must of > >> > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > >> > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > >> > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > >> > >> rest > >> > > of > >> > >> your life. ha ha > >> > >> All the very best > >> > >> Tony > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> > >> ]On > >> > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > >> > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > >> > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> > >> > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > >> > >> Ken B. > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > >> > >> ] > >> > > On > >> > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > >> > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > >> > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > >> > >> > >> > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > >> > >> some > >> > > of > >> > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > >> > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > >> > >> > >> > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > >> > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > >> > >> Santa Fe, > >> > > NM. > >> > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > >> > >> sparsely > >> > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > >> > >> other work > >> > >> that would draw a larger population. > >> > >> > >> > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > >> > >> Add to > >> > > this > >> > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > >> > >> for > >> > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > >> > >> to > >> > > begin > >> > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > >> > > Standards, > >> > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > >> > >> the > >> > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > >> > >> not out > >> > > of > >> > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > >> > >> later > >> > > on, > >> > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > >> > >> there > >> > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > >> > >> > >> > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That > >> > >> being > >> > > said, > >> > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > >> > >> Edison > >> > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > >> > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > >> > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > >> > > geographically > >> > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > >> > >> brought here > >> > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > >> > >> > >> > >> To the subject at hand: > >> > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > >> > >> Fall > >> > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > >> > >> Santa > >> > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > >> > >> until > >> > > late > >> > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > >> > >> shop > >> > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > >> > >> nice, > >> > > but > >> > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > >> > >> so no > >> > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > >> > >> > >> > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > >> > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > >> > >> the next > >> > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > >> > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > >> > >> that I'd > >> > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > >> > >> casually > >> > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > >> > >> the > >> > > next > >> > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > >> > >> to be > >> > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > >> > >> I could > >> > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > >> > >> sticking out > >> > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > >> > >> > >> > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > >> > >> mind to > >> > > see > >> > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > >> > >> powers > >> > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > >> > >> although I > >> > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > >> > >> phono-L > >> > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > >> > >> > >> > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > >> > >> curl > >> > > of > >> > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > >> > >> bashing the > >> > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the > >> > >> fine, > >> > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > >> > >> pattern > >> > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > >> > >> front of > >> > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > >> > >> > >> > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in > >> > >> New > >> > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > >> > >> of the > >> > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > >> > >> eyes. > >> > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > >> > >> New > >> > > Mexico > >> > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > >> > >> and > >> > > trim > >> > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > >> > >> good and > >> > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > >> > >> rear > >> > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > >> > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > >> > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > >> > >> > >> > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > >> > >> Original gold V key; > >> > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > >> > >> back; > >> > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > >> > > sitting > >> > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; > >> > >> Near > >> > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > >> > >> Exhibition > >> > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > >> > >> lid and > >> > > in > >> > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > >> > >> storage > >> > > area > >> > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > >> > >> and > >> > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > >> > >> key > >> > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > >> > >> curl). > >> > >> > >> > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > >> > >> > >> > >> Sold! > >> > >> > >> > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > >> > > intimately > >> > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > >> > >> so > >> > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > >> > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > >> > >> grease and > >> > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > >> > >> with > >> > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > >> > > complete > >> > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > >> > >> relatively > >> > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > >> > >> film of > >> > > old > >> > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > >> > >> and a > >> > >> light coat of fresh > >> > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > >> > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > >> > >> awful > >> > > when > >> > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > >> > >> and > >> > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > >> > >> > >> > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > >> > >> number of > >> > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > >> > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > >> > >> (Roman > >> > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > >> > >> one > >> > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > >> > >> than > >> > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > >> > >> math > >> > >> right. > >> > >> > >> > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > >> > >> gold- > >> > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > >> > >> off > >> > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > >> > > cabinet. > >> > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > >> > >> escutcheon? > >> > >> > >> > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > >> > > accurately > >> > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > >> > >> those > >> > > of > >> > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > >> > >> > >> > >> Kindest regards, > >> > >> Andy Baron > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Phono-L mailing list > >> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Phono-L mailing list > >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > NEW ADDRESS > > Showplace Antique Center > > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > > NY NY 10010 > > t. 212-273-9616 > > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 13:16:56 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:16:56 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-220091042220165631@earthlink.net> I have an aversion to using water based cleaners on shellac or any other furniture finish, for that part. The good thing about Go-Jo, Goop, D&L, or any others is that you don't put water on the finish to clean it. There is a little film left on the finish, but it sems to evaporate in a short time. > [Original Message] > From: Ron L'Herault > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/22/2009 1:56:18 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > It does leave a little lanolin on the surface I think. I usually do a quick > spray and wipe with Fantastic (which also does not seem to hurt the shellac > as far as I can tell. I tested it on a shiny part of a 78 and didn't see > any cloudiness. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Glenn Longwell > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 12:04 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > So if you plan to reflow the shellac after using one of these cleaners would > you still use anything else after the cleaner?to prepare the surface? > > Glenn > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Ron L'Herault > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:58:04 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice.? I use a product by L&D, I > think it is? that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the > supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease > stains (which it does well, by the way).? The brand is not as important as > not having pumice.? It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut > through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Tom Jordan > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products including a > hand sanitizer.? Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring to > and where it can be purchased?? Does it removed the finish or just clean it? > Thank you. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by going > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > Charlotte aka Waves > http://www.wavesllc.com > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > wrote: > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a buildup > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > time > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on the > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > the > > finish is as new. > > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > phonographs. > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has a > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A few > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > an > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the Go-Jo > > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen a > > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: Andrew Baron > > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > Thanks, Douglas.? Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > > soon regain its. > > > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step.? The black > > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > > > I've had my? VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > > realize just > > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > > regardless of > > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > > spring was > > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > > Go-Jo > > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> Andy > > > >> Great story! > > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of? how many people > > > >> must of > > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > > >> rest > > > > of > > > >> your life. ha ha > > > >> All the very best > > > >> Tony > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > >> ]On > > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> Congrats!!!!? Any chance of posting pictures??? > > > >> Ken B. > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > >> ] > > > > On > > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > >> > > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > > >> some > > > > of > > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > > >> > > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either more > > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > > >> Santa Fe, > > > > NM. > > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > > >> sparsely > > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > > >> other work > > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > > >> > > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > > >> Add to > > > > this > > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > > >> for > > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > > >> to > > > > begin > > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range.? Edison > > > > Standards, > > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > > >> the > > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > > >> not out > > > > of > > > >> a collection.? Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > > >> later > > > > on, > > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > > >> there > > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > > >> > > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That being > > > > said, > > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > > >> Edison > > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population 72,000. > > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > > geographically > > > >> isolated from the big population centers.? The Zonophone was > > > >> brought here > > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > > >> > > > >> To the subject at hand: > > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > > >> Fall > > > >> sale; everything 30% off.? This event draws what seems like half of > > > >> Santa > > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > > >> until > > > > late > > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds.? Anyway, most of what the > > > >> shop > > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > > >> nice, > > > > but > > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > > >> so no > > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > > >> > > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > > >> the next > > > >> room.? We continued looking around in the part of the store where we > > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > > >> that I'd > > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were.? We headed > > > >> casually > > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > > >> the > > > > next > > > >> room.? No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > > >> to be > > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > > >> I could > > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > > >> sticking out > > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > > >> > > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > > >> mind to > > > > see > > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > > >> powers > > > >> of imagination.? Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > > >> although I > > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > > >> phono-L > > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > > >> > > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > > >> curl > > > > of > > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > > >> bashing the > > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt.? I also noticed the fine, > > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > > >> pattern > > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > > >> front of > > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > > >> > > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in New > > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > > >> of the > > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > > >> eyes. > > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a New > > > > Mexico > > > >> Victrola.? This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > > >> and > > > > trim > > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > > >> good and > > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > > >> rear > > > >> corner piece.? Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > > >> > > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > > >> Original gold V key; > > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > > >> back; > > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > > sitting > > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; Near > > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > > >> Exhibition > > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > > >> lid and > > > > in > > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > > >> storage > > > > area > > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > > >> and > > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > > >> key > > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > > >> curl). > > > >> > > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > > >> > > > >> Sold! > > > >> > > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > > intimately > > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > > >> so > > > >> prized.? It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a respectable > > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > > >> grease and > > > >> the appropriate preparations.? The fancy work and doors on the back > > > >> with > > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > > complete > > > >> surprise.? You never see this view in the books.? The motor is > > > >> relatively > > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > > >> film of > > > > old > > > >> hard residue).? A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > > >> and a > > > >> light coat of fresh > > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > > >> Even the speed indicator works.? The main springs thud something > > > >> awful > > > > when > > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > > >> and > > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > > >> > > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > > >> number of > > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > > >> (Roman > > > >> numeral model-number era).? This equates to less than one-tenth of > > > >> one > > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > > >> than > > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > > >> math > > > >> right. > > > >> > > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > > >> gold- > > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > > >> off > > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > > cabinet. > > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface.? Anyone got a key > > > >> escutcheon? > > > >> > > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > > accurately > > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > > >> those > > > > of > > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > > >> > > > >> Kindest regards, > > > >> Andy Baron > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > -- > NEW ADDRESS > Showplace Antique Center > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > NY NY 10010 > t. 212-273-9616 > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > http://www.wavesllc.com > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From drgregc at msn.com Thu Oct 22 14:04:38 2009 From: drgregc at msn.com (gregory caringi) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:04:38 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> Message-ID: I've used both Go-Jo (without pumice!) and Kotton Klenser. I know it's more expensive, but I really think the Kotton Klenser works better. I have complete faith in the product. I've never seen it damage any finish I've used it on. I put it on with a bristle paint brush. Apply it generously. Let it set a few minutes. Use a gentle scrubbing action with the paint brush. Wipe clean with soft dry cloth. Reapply as needed. For tougher cleansing, I use 0000 steel wool to apply it. Rub with the grain. Step back and admire your work. The KK Lemon Oil-Beeswax product is a nice follow-up product, although I actually prefer the similar Howard's Feed-N-Wax. I don't use or recommend the KK Protective Wood Feeder. Skip that step. http://kottonklenser.com/ http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm > From: cdh041 at earthlink.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:12:10 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with > pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. > There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same > formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good > stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Ron L'Herault > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by > L&D, I > > think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the > > supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease > > stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as > > not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut > > through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > > Behalf Of Tom Jordan > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM > > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products > including a > > hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring > to > > and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean > it? > > Thank you. > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by > going > > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > > > Charlotte aka Waves > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > > wrote: > > > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a > buildup > > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > > time > > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on > the > > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > > > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > > the > > > finish is as new. > > > > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > > phonographs. > > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has > a > > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > > > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A > few > > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > > an > > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > > > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > > > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the > Go-Jo > > > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen > a > > > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > > > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > From: Andrew Baron > > > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > > > soon regain its. > > > > > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > > > realize just > > > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > > > regardless of > > > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > > > spring was > > > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > > > Go-Jo > > > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> Andy > > > > >> Great story! > > > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > > > >> must of > > > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > > > >> rest > > > > > of > > > > >> your life. ha ha > > > > >> All the very best > > > > >> Tony > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > > >> ]On > > > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > > > >> Ken B. > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > > >> ] > > > > > On > > > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > > > >> some > > > > > of > > > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > > > >> > > > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either > more > > > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > > > >> Santa Fe, > > > > > NM. > > > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > > > >> sparsely > > > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > > > >> other work > > > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > > > >> > > > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > > > >> Add to > > > > > this > > > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > > > >> for > > > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > > > >> to > > > > > begin > > > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > > > Standards, > > > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > > > >> the > > > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > > > >> not out > > > > > of > > > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > > > >> later > > > > > on, > > > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > > > >> there > > > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > > > >> > > > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That > being > > > > > said, > > > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > > > >> Edison > > > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population > 72,000. > > > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > > > geographically > > > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > > > >> brought here > > > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > > > >> > > > > >> To the subject at hand: > > > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > > > >> Fall > > > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > > > >> Santa > > > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > > > >> until > > > > > late > > > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > > > >> shop > > > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > > > >> nice, > > > > > but > > > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > > > >> so no > > > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > > > >> > > > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > > > >> the next > > > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where > we > > > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > > > >> that I'd > > > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > > > >> casually > > > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > > > >> the > > > > > next > > > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > > > >> to be > > > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > > > >> I could > > > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > > > >> sticking out > > > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > > > >> > > > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > > > >> mind to > > > > > see > > > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > > > >> powers > > > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > > > >> although I > > > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > > > >> phono-L > > > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > > > >> > > > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > > > >> curl > > > > > of > > > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > > > >> bashing the > > > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the > fine, > > > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > > > >> pattern > > > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > > > >> front of > > > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > > > >> > > > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in > New > > > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > > > >> of the > > > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > > > >> eyes. > > > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > New > > > > > Mexico > > > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > > > >> and > > > > > trim > > > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > > > >> good and > > > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > > > >> rear > > > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > > > >> > > > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > > > >> Original gold V key; > > > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > > > >> back; > > > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > > > sitting > > > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; > Near > > > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > > > >> Exhibition > > > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > > > >> lid and > > > > > in > > > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > > > >> storage > > > > > area > > > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > > > >> and > > > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > > > >> key > > > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > > > >> curl). > > > > >> > > > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > > > >> > > > > >> Sold! > > > > >> > > > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > > > intimately > > > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > > > >> so > > > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a > respectable > > > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > > > >> grease and > > > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > > > >> with > > > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > > > complete > > > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > > > >> relatively > > > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > > > >> film of > > > > > old > > > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > > > >> and a > > > > >> light coat of fresh > > > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > > > >> awful > > > > > when > > > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > > > >> and > > > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > > > >> > > > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > > > >> number of > > > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > > > >> (Roman > > > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > > > >> one > > > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > > > >> than > > > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > > > >> math > > > > >> right. > > > > >> > > > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > > > >> gold- > > > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > > > >> off > > > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > > > cabinet. > > > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > > > >> escutcheon? > > > > >> > > > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > > > accurately > > > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > > > >> those > > > > > of > > > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > > > >> > > > > >> Kindest regards, > > > > >> Andy Baron > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > NEW ADDRESS > > Showplace Antique Center > > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > > NY NY 10010 > > t. 212-273-9616 > > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From barry at barrykasindorf.com Thu Oct 22 13:41:46 2009 From: barry at barrykasindorf.com (Barry Kasindorf) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:41:46 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. -Barry Douglas Houston wrote: > Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with > pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. > There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same > formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good > stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Ron L'Herault >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >> > L&D, I > >> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as >> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut >> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >> >> Ron L >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >> > On > >> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >> > including a > >> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring >> > to > >> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >> > it? > >> Thank you. >> Tom >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >> > On > >> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >> >> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >> > going > >> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >> >> Charlotte aka Waves >> http://www.wavesllc.com >> >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >> wrote: >> >> >>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>> > buildup > >>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my >>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>> >> time >> >>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>> > the > >>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. >>> >>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>> >> the >> >>> finish is as new. >>> >>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>> >> phonographs. >> >>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>> > a > >>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>> >>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>> > few > >>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had >>> >> an >> >>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the >>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>> >>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking >>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>> > Go-Jo > >>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>> > a > >>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I >>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>> >>> >>> >>>> [Original Message] >>>> From: Andrew Baron >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>> soon regain its. >>>> >>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>> >>>> Andy >>>> >>>> >>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>> realize just >>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>> regardless of >>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>> spring was >>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>> Go-Jo >>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters >>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> Great story! >>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>> must of >>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>> rest >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>> All the very best >>>>>> Tony >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>> >>>>>> ]On >>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>> >>>>>> ] >>>>>> >>>>> On >>>>> >>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>> some >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>> >>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>> > more > >>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>> >>>>> NM. >>>>> >>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>> sparsely >>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>> other work >>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>> >>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>> Add to >>>>>> >>>>> this >>>>> >>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>> for >>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>> to >>>>>> >>>>> begin >>>>> >>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>> >>>>> Standards, >>>>> >>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>> the >>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>> not out >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>> later >>>>>> >>>>> on, >>>>> >>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>> there >>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>> >>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>> > being > >>>>> said, >>>>> >>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>> Edison >>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>> > 72,000. > >>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>> >>>>> geographically >>>>> >>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>> brought here >>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>> >>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>> Fall >>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>> Santa >>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>> until >>>>>> >>>>> late >>>>> >>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>> shop >>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>> nice, >>>>>> >>>>> but >>>>> >>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>> so no >>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>> >>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>> the next >>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>> > we > >>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>> that I'd >>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>> casually >>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>> the >>>>>> >>>>> next >>>>> >>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>> to be >>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>> I could >>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>> sticking out >>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>> >>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>> mind to >>>>>> >>>>> see >>>>> >>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>> powers >>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>> although I >>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>> phono-L >>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>> >>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>> curl >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>> bashing the >>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>> > fine, > >>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>> pattern >>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>> front of >>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>> >>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>> > New > >>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>> of the >>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>> eyes. >>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>> > New > >>>>> Mexico >>>>> >>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>> and >>>>>> >>>>> trim >>>>> >>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>> good and >>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>> rear >>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>> >>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>> back; >>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>> >>>>> sitting >>>>> >>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>> > Near > >>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>> lid and >>>>>> >>>>> in >>>>> >>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>> storage >>>>>> >>>>> area >>>>> >>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>> and >>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>> key >>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>> curl). >>>>>> >>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sold! >>>>>> >>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>> >>>>> intimately >>>>> >>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>> so >>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>> > respectable > >>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>> grease and >>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>> with >>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>> >>>>> complete >>>>> >>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>> relatively >>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>> film of >>>>>> >>>>> old >>>>> >>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>> and a >>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>> awful >>>>>> >>>>> when >>>>> >>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>> and >>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>> >>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>> number of >>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>> (Roman >>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>> one >>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>> than >>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>> math >>>>>> right. >>>>>> >>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>> gold- >>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>> off >>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>> >>>>> cabinet. >>>>> >>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>> >>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>> >>>>> accurately >>>>> >>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>> those >>>>>> >>>>> of >>>>> >>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>> >>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> >> >> -- >> NEW ADDRESS >> Showplace Antique Center >> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >> NY NY 10010 >> t. 212-273-9616 >> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >> http://www.wavesllc.com >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Oct 22 14:54:23 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 21:54:23 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <458064895-1256248457-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1389202349-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I love Kotton Klenser, use it all the time to clean without removing finish. It works great on nicotine covered surfaces, which may be what that black sticky gunk is. John Robles Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: gregory caringi Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:04:38 To: phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me I've used both Go-Jo (without pumice!) and Kotton Klenser. I know it's more expensive, but I really think the Kotton Klenser works better. I have complete faith in the product. I've never seen it damage any finish I've used it on. I put it on with a bristle paint brush. Apply it generously. Let it set a few minutes. Use a gentle scrubbing action with the paint brush. Wipe clean with soft dry cloth. Reapply as needed. For tougher cleansing, I use 0000 steel wool to apply it. Rub with the grain. Step back and admire your work. The KK Lemon Oil-Beeswax product is a nice follow-up product, although I actually prefer the similar Howard's Feed-N-Wax. I don't use or recommend the KK Protective Wood Feeder. Skip that step. http://kottonklenser.com/ http://www.howardproducts.com/feednwax.htm > From: cdh041 at earthlink.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 16:12:10 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available with > pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. > There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same > formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good > stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: Ron L'Herault > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by > L&D, I > > think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the > > supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease > > stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as important as > > not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does cut > > through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > > Behalf Of Tom Jordan > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM > > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products > including a > > hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are referring > to > > and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean > it? > > Thank you. > > Tom > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > > Behalf Of Charlotte Mager > > Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by > going > > to http://www.victor-victrola.com > > > > Charlotte aka Waves > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > > > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston > > wrote: > > > > > Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a > buildup > > > of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought by my > > > mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were > > > many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top > > > surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first > > time > > > ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on > the > > > top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was exposed. > > > > > > At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove > > > grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and > > > flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, > > the > > > finish is as new. > > > > > > I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these > > phonographs. > > > I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were > > > consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special > > > treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One > > > interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has > a > > > XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the > > > crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. > > > > > > My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial > > > number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A > few > > > years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it had > > an > > > aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and the > > > one for auction, Victor changed name plates. > > > > > > At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, checking > > > everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the > Go-Jo > > > treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen > a > > > cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it going. I > > > also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. > > > > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > > From: Andrew Baron > > > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM > > > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > > > > > Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor > > > > in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will > > > > soon regain its. > > > > > > > > I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black > > > > residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the > > > > finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. > > > > > > > > Andy > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > > > > > > > I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to > > > > > realize just > > > > > what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, > > > > > regardless of > > > > > condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One > > > > > spring was > > > > > broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with > > > > > Go-Jo > > > > > made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > > > > >> From: Mobility Scooters > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > >> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> Andy > > > > >> Great story! > > > > >> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people > > > > >> must of > > > > >> seen it before you did in the afternoon. > > > > >> I would say it was waiting for you. > > > > >> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the > > > > >> rest > > > > > of > > > > >> your life. ha ha > > > > >> All the very best > > > > >> Tony > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > > >> ]On > > > > >> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke > > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. > > > > >> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > > > > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? > > > > >> Ken B. > > > > >> > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > > > > >> ] > > > > > On > > > > >> Behalf Of Andrew Baron > > > > >> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM > > > > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > > > > >> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > > > >> > > > > >> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of > > > > >> some > > > > > of > > > > >> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a > > > > >> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. > > > > >> > > > > >> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either > more > > > > >> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in > > > > >> Santa Fe, > > > > > NM. > > > > >> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty > > > > >> sparsely > > > > >> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or > > > > >> other work > > > > >> that would draw a larger population. > > > > >> > > > > >> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. > > > > >> Add to > > > > > this > > > > >> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized > > > > >> for > > > > >> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs > > > > >> to > > > > > begin > > > > >> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison > > > > > Standards, > > > > >> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably > > > > >> the > > > > >> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if > > > > >> not out > > > > > of > > > > >> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here > > > > >> later > > > > > on, > > > > >> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and > > > > >> there > > > > >> isn't much of a collecting community here. > > > > >> > > > > >> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That > being > > > > > said, > > > > >> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, > > > > >> Edison > > > > >> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand > > > > >> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population > 72,000. > > > > >> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are > > > > > geographically > > > > >> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was > > > > >> brought here > > > > >> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. > > > > >> > > > > >> To the subject at hand: > > > > >> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual > > > > >> Fall > > > > >> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of > > > > >> Santa > > > > >> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait > > > > >> until > > > > > late > > > > >> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the > > > > >> shop > > > > >> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite > > > > >> nice, > > > > > but > > > > >> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, > > > > >> so no > > > > >> penalty for arriving when convenient. > > > > >> > > > > >> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the > > > > >> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in > > > > >> the next > > > > >> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where > we > > > > >> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said > > > > >> that I'd > > > > >> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed > > > > >> casually > > > > >> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward > > > > >> the > > > > > next > > > > >> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going > > > > >> to be > > > > >> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than > > > > >> I could > > > > >> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just > > > > >> sticking out > > > > >> beyond the wall separating the rooms. > > > > >> > > > > >> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my > > > > >> mind to > > > > > see > > > > >> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my > > > > >> powers > > > > >> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find > > > > >> although I > > > > >> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful > > > > >> phono-L > > > > >> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). > > > > >> > > > > >> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top > > > > >> curl > > > > > of > > > > >> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from > > > > >> bashing the > > > > >> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the > fine, > > > > >> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer > > > > >> pattern > > > > >> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the > > > > >> front of > > > > >> the machine, which left no doubt. > > > > >> > > > > >> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in > New > > > > >> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware > > > > >> of the > > > > >> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own > > > > >> eyes. > > > > >> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a > New > > > > > Mexico > > > > >> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges > > > > >> and > > > > > trim > > > > >> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally > > > > >> good and > > > > >> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper > > > > >> rear > > > > >> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph > > > > >> collection, and just as you like to find them > > > > >> -- clearly untouched for decades. > > > > >> > > > > >> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: > > > > >> Original gold V key; > > > > >> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and > > > > >> back; > > > > >> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still > > > > > sitting > > > > >> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; > Near > > > > >> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold > > > > >> Exhibition > > > > >> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the > > > > >> lid and > > > > > in > > > > >> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record > > > > >> storage > > > > > area > > > > >> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, > > > > >> and > > > > >> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower > > > > >> key > > > > >> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner > > > > >> curl). > > > > >> > > > > >> Price, $650, minus 30%. > > > > >> > > > > >> Sold! > > > > >> > > > > >> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more > > > > > intimately > > > > >> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is > > > > >> so > > > > >> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a > respectable > > > > >> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow > > > > >> grease and > > > > >> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back > > > > >> with > > > > >> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a > > > > > complete > > > > >> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is > > > > >> relatively > > > > >> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed > > > > >> film of > > > > > old > > > > >> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, > > > > >> and a > > > > >> light coat of fresh > > > > >> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. > > > > >> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something > > > > >> awful > > > > > when > > > > >> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down > > > > >> and > > > > >> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. > > > > >> > > > > >> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the > > > > >> number of > > > > >> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total > > > > >> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total > > > > >> (Roman > > > > >> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of > > > > >> one > > > > >> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less > > > > >> than > > > > >> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my > > > > >> math > > > > >> right. > > > > >> > > > > >> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the > > > > >> gold- > > > > >> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- > > > > >> off > > > > >> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the > > > > > cabinet. > > > > >> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key > > > > >> escutcheon? > > > > >> > > > > >> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and > > > > > accurately > > > > >> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for > > > > >> those > > > > > of > > > > >> you who have not yet had the pleasure. > > > > >> > > > > >> Kindest regards, > > > > >> Andy Baron > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > >> > > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > > > >> Phono-L mailing list > > > > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > NEW ADDRESS > > Showplace Antique Center > > 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 > > NY NY 10010 > > t. 212-273-9616 > > NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 > > MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT > > http://www.wavesllc.com > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From gacker1 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 15:35:05 2009 From: gacker1 at earthlink.net (Greg Acker) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 18:35:05 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Sewing Machine In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found an early electric type sewing machine - looks like 1910-15 vintage that is branded Edison. I know this isn't phonograph related, but does anyone know if Tom had anything to do with these machines? From rich-mail at octoxol.com Thu Oct 22 17:41:14 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net> <4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com> Message-ID: <4AE0FBAA.5020400@octoxol.com> The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It will strip the decals quite rapidly. Barry Kasindorf wrote: > Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it > leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very > good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. > -Barry > > > Douglas Houston wrote: >> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available >> with >> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. >> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same >> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good >> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. >> >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Ron L'Herault >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >>> >> L&D, I >> >>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as >>> important as >>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does >>> cut >>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >>> >> including a >> >>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are >>> referring >>> >> to >> >>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >>> >> it? >> >>> Thank you. >>> Tom >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >>> >> going >> >>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >>> >>> Charlotte aka Waves >>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>>> >> buildup >> >>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought >>>> by my >>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>>> >>> time >>> >>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>>> >> the >> >>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was >>>> exposed. >>>> >>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>>> >>> the >>> >>>> finish is as new. >>>> >>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>>> >>> phonographs. >>> >>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>>> >> a >> >>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>>> >>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>>> >> few >> >>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it >>>> had >>>> >>> an >>> >>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and >>>> the >>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>>> >>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, >>>> checking >>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>>> >> Go-Jo >> >>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>>> >> a >> >>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it >>>> going. I >>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> [Original Message] >>>>> From: Andrew Baron >>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>>> soon regain its. >>>>> >>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>>> realize just >>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>>> regardless of >>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>>> spring was >>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>>> Go-Jo >>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters >>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>> Great story! >>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>>> must of >>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>>> rest >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>>> All the very best >>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>> >>>>>>> ]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>> >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>>> >> more >> >>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>>> >>>>>> NM. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>>> sparsely >>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>>> other work >>>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>>> Add to >>>>>>> >>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>> begin >>>>>> >>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>>> >>>>>> Standards, >>>>>> >>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>>> not out >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>>> later >>>>>>> >>>>>> on, >>>>>> >>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>>> >> being >> >>>>>> said, >>>>>> >>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>>> Edison >>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>>> >> 72,000. >> >>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>>> >>>>>> geographically >>>>>> >>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>>> brought here >>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>>> Fall >>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>>> Santa >>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>>> until >>>>>>> >>>>>> late >>>>>> >>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>>> shop >>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>>> nice, >>>>>>> >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>>> so no >>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>>> the next >>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>>> >> we >> >>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>>> that I'd >>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>>> casually >>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>> next >>>>>> >>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>>> I could >>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>>> sticking out >>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>>> mind to >>>>>>> >>>>>> see >>>>>> >>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>>> powers >>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>>> although I >>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>>> phono-L >>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>>> curl >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>>> bashing the >>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>>> >> fine, >> >>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>>> front of >>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>>> >> New >> >>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>>> >> New >> >>>>>> Mexico >>>>>> >>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>> trim >>>>>> >>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>>> good and >>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>>> rear >>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>>> back; >>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>>> >>>>>> sitting >>>>>> >>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>>> >> Near >> >>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>>> lid and >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>>> storage >>>>>>> >>>>>> area >>>>>> >>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>>> key >>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>>> curl). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sold! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>>> >>>>>> intimately >>>>>> >>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>>> >> respectable >> >>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>>> grease and >>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>>> >>>>>> complete >>>>>> >>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>>> film of >>>>>>> >>>>>> old >>>>>> >>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>>> and a >>>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>>> awful >>>>>>> >>>>>> when >>>>>> >>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>>> number of >>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>>> (Roman >>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>>> math >>>>>>> right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>>> gold- >>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>>> off >>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>>> >>>>>> cabinet. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>>> >>>>>> accurately >>>>>> >>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> NEW ADDRESS >>> Showplace Antique Center >>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >>> NY NY 10010 >>> t. 212-273-9616 >>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Oct 22 17:50:53 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 00:50:53 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <4AE0FBAA.5020400@octoxol.com> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net><4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com><4AE0FBAA.5020400@octoxol.com> Message-ID: <2056712141-1256259055-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1491853334-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines, but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage shine. We all have our own methods of course! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Rich Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It will strip the decals quite rapidly. Barry Kasindorf wrote: > Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it > leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very > good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. > -Barry > > > Douglas Houston wrote: >> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available >> with >> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. >> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same >> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good >> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. >> >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Ron L'Herault >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >>> >> L&D, I >> >>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as >>> important as >>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does >>> cut >>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >>> >> including a >> >>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are >>> referring >>> >> to >> >>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >>> >> it? >> >>> Thank you. >>> Tom >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> >> On >> >>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>> >>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >>> >> going >> >>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >>> >>> Charlotte aka Waves >>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>> >>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >>> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>>> >> buildup >> >>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought >>>> by my >>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>>> >>> time >>> >>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>>> >> the >> >>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was >>>> exposed. >>>> >>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>>> >>> the >>> >>>> finish is as new. >>>> >>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>>> >>> phonographs. >>> >>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>>> >> a >> >>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>>> >>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>>> >> few >> >>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it >>>> had >>>> >>> an >>> >>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and >>>> the >>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>>> >>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, >>>> checking >>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>>> >> Go-Jo >> >>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>>> >> a >> >>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it >>>> going. I >>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> [Original Message] >>>>> From: Andrew Baron >>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>>> soon regain its. >>>>> >>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>>> >>>>> Andy >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>>> realize just >>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>>> regardless of >>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>>> spring was >>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>>> Go-Jo >>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters >>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>> Great story! >>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>>> must of >>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>>> rest >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>>> All the very best >>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>> >>>>>>> ]On >>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>> >>>>>>> ] >>>>>>> >>>>>> On >>>>>> >>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>>> some >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>>> >> more >> >>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>>> >>>>>> NM. >>>>>> >>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>>> sparsely >>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>>> other work >>>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>>> Add to >>>>>>> >>>>>> this >>>>>> >>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> >>>>>> begin >>>>>> >>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>>> >>>>>> Standards, >>>>>> >>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>>> not out >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>>> later >>>>>>> >>>>>> on, >>>>>> >>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>>> there >>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>>> >> being >> >>>>>> said, >>>>>> >>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>>> Edison >>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>>> >> 72,000. >> >>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>>> >>>>>> geographically >>>>>> >>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>>> brought here >>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>>> Fall >>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>>> Santa >>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>>> until >>>>>>> >>>>>> late >>>>>> >>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>>> shop >>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>>> nice, >>>>>>> >>>>>> but >>>>>> >>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>>> so no >>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>>> the next >>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>>> >> we >> >>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>>> that I'd >>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>>> casually >>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> >>>>>> next >>>>>> >>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>>> to be >>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>>> I could >>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>>> sticking out >>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>>> mind to >>>>>>> >>>>>> see >>>>>> >>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>>> powers >>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>>> although I >>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>>> phono-L >>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>>> curl >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>>> bashing the >>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>>> >> fine, >> >>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>>> front of >>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>>> >> New >> >>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>>> of the >>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>>> >> New >> >>>>>> Mexico >>>>>> >>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> >>>>>> trim >>>>>> >>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>>> good and >>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>>> rear >>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>>> back; >>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>>> >>>>>> sitting >>>>>> >>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>>> >> Near >> >>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>>> lid and >>>>>>> >>>>>> in >>>>>> >>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>>> storage >>>>>>> >>>>>> area >>>>>> >>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>>> key >>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>>> curl). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sold! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>>> >>>>>> intimately >>>>>> >>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>>> >> respectable >> >>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>>> grease and >>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>>> with >>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>>> >>>>>> complete >>>>>> >>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>>> film of >>>>>>> >>>>>> old >>>>>> >>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>>> and a >>>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>>> awful >>>>>>> >>>>>> when >>>>>> >>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>>> and >>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>>> number of >>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>>> (Roman >>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>>> one >>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>>> than >>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>>> math >>>>>>> right. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>>> gold- >>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>>> off >>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>>> >>>>>> cabinet. >>>>>> >>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>>> >>>>>> accurately >>>>>> >>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>>> those >>>>>>> >>>>>> of >>>>>> >>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> NEW ADDRESS >>> Showplace Antique Center >>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >>> NY NY 10010 >>> t. 212-273-9616 >>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rich-mail at octoxol.com Thu Oct 22 18:23:08 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:23:08 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <2056712141-1256259055-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1491853334-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net><4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com><4AE0FBAA.5020400@octoxol.com> <2056712141-1256259055-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1491853334-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <4AE1057C.7040609@octoxol.com> The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type of cleaner used. The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check the ingredients. The water is tied up in a couple of the other ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the finish problems. john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: > I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines, but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage shine. > We all have our own methods of course! > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish > formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the > first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It > will strip the decals quite rapidly. > > Barry Kasindorf wrote: >> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it >> leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very >> good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. >> -Barry >> >> >> Douglas Houston wrote: >>> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available >>> with >>> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. >>> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same >>> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good >>> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. >>> >>> >>> >>>> [Original Message] >>>> From: Ron L'Herault >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >>>> >>> L&D, I >>> >>>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >>>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >>>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as >>>> important as >>>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does >>>> cut >>>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >>>> >>>> Ron L >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >>>> >>> including a >>> >>>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are >>>> referring >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >>>> >>> it? >>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >>>> >>> going >>> >>>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >>>> >>>> Charlotte aka Waves >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>>>> >>> buildup >>> >>>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought >>>>> by my >>>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>>>> >>>> time >>>> >>>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>>>> >>> the >>> >>>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was >>>>> exposed. >>>>> >>>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> finish is as new. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>>>> >>>> phonographs. >>>> >>>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>>>> >>>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>>>> >>> few >>> >>>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it >>>>> had >>>>> >>>> an >>>> >>>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and >>>>> the >>>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>>>> >>>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, >>>>> checking >>>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>>>> >>> Go-Jo >>> >>>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it >>>>> going. I >>>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>> From: Andrew Baron >>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>>>> soon regain its. >>>>>> >>>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>>>> realize just >>>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>>>> regardless of >>>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>>>> spring was >>>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>>>> Go-Jo >>>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> Great story! >>>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>>>> must of >>>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>>>> rest >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>>>> All the very best >>>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>>>>> ]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>>>> >>> more >>> >>>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> NM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>>>> sparsely >>>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>>>> other work >>>>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>>>> Add to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> begin >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Standards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>>>> not out >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>>>> later >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> on, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>>>> >>> being >>> >>>>>>> said, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>>>> Edison >>>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>>>> >>> 72,000. >>> >>>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> geographically >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>>>> brought here >>>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>>>> Fall >>>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>>>> Santa >>>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> late >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>>>> shop >>>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>>>> nice, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>>>> so no >>>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>>>> the next >>>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>>>> >>> we >>> >>>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>>>> that I'd >>>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>>>> casually >>>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>>>> I could >>>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>>>> sticking out >>>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>>>> mind to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> see >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>>>> powers >>>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>>>> although I >>>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>>>> phono-L >>>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>>>> curl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>>>> bashing the >>>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>>>> >>> fine, >>> >>>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>>>> front of >>>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> trim >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>>>> good and >>>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>>>> rear >>>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>>>> back; >>>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>>>> >>> Near >>> >>>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>>>> lid and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>>>> storage >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> area >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>>>> key >>>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>>>> curl). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sold! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> intimately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>>>> >>> respectable >>> >>>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>>>> grease and >>>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> complete >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>>>> film of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> old >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>>>> awful >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>>>> number of >>>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>>>> (Roman >>>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>>>> math >>>>>>>> right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>>>> gold- >>>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> cabinet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> accurately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> NEW ADDRESS >>>> Showplace Antique Center >>>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >>>> NY NY 10010 >>>> t. 212-273-9616 >>>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >>>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Oct 22 18:30:48 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 01:30:48 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me In-Reply-To: <4AE1057C.7040609@octoxol.com> References: <410-2200910422201210734@earthlink.net><4AE0C38A.5020406@barrykasindorf.com><4AE0FBAA.5020400@octoxol.com><2056712141-1256259055-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1491853334-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry><4AE1057C.7040609@octoxol.com> Message-ID: <2073210574-1256261442-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-123070584-@bda502.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> True, and I have heard that Kotton Klenser is actually a type of hand cleaner. Who knows. Go to their website at www.kottonklenser,com and there are lotsa products and faqs for use. Interesting. Is anyone else curious why 2 words normally spelt with a C are spelt with Ks (KK) and the company is in tennessee, and used to be called Rebel Products??? Just my conspiracy theory. John Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Rich Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:23:08 To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me The time to destruction is a factor of the type of finish and the type of cleaner used. The "waterless" hand cleaners all contain water, check the ingredients. The water is tied up in a couple of the other ingredients but if you wait long enough you will have water on the finish problems. john9ten at pacbell.net wrote: > I haven't found that to be the case with edison, victor or columbia machines, but I don't let it soak either. I apply, rub in well, then remove with a soft cloth. Follow up with a coat of a quality beeswax polish for a nice vintage shine. > We all have our own methods of course! > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich > Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 19:41:14 > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > The Kotton Kleanser will slowly attack and soften the old varnish > formulas and will dissolve many decorative decals that were used in the > first 20 years of the 20th century if left in contact for very long. It > will strip the decals quite rapidly. > > Barry Kasindorf wrote: >> Kotton Kleanser is good stuff, I have used it, but someone said it >> leaves the finish soft. I think it works better than gojo. Gojo is very >> good at getting hand/finger smudge off where knobs and lids get used. >> -Barry >> >> >> Douglas Houston wrote: >>> Oh, indeed. Go-Jo and most other waterless hand cleaners are available >>> with >>> pumice, and when you buy the stuff, you must look to get the right stuff. >>> There is one that does the same thing, and is probably the same >>> formulation. It's called Kotten Kleaner, or something like that. Good >>> stuff, I understand, for about 3 times the price. >>> >>> >>> >>>> [Original Message] >>>> From: Ron L'Herault >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Date: 10/22/2009 11:59:06 AM >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> It is the waterless hand cleaner WITHOUT pumice. I use a product by >>>> >>> L&D, I >>> >>>> think it is that is sold in the hardware or laundry sections of the >>>> supermarket as both a hand cleaner and a material to remove oil/grease >>>> stains (which it does well, by the way). The brand is not as >>>> important as >>>> not having pumice. It does not remove/affect the shellac but it does >>>> cut >>>> through old hand oils, grease, wax build up. >>>> >>>> Ron L >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Tom Jordan >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 11:18 AM >>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> I Googled Go-Jo and found a company that makes a lot of products >>>> >>> including a >>> >>>> hand sanitizer. Can anyone tell me which Go-Jo product you are >>>> referring >>>> >>> to >>> >>>> and where it can be purchased? Does it removed the finish or just clean >>>> >>> it? >>> >>>> Thank you. >>>> Tom >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>>> >>> On >>> >>>> Behalf Of Charlotte Mager >>>> Sent: Thursday, October 22, 2009 7:27 AM >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>> >>>> There is a fellow keeping a data base of Victors. You can ad yours by >>>> >>> going >>> >>>> to http://www.victor-victrola.com >>>> >>>> Charlotte aka Waves >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> >>>> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Douglas Houston >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Of course, I'm not there to see it, but my first guess would be a >>>>> >>> buildup >>> >>>>> of grime from all those years. The dining room set here was bought >>>>> by my >>>>> mother in 1925. Our house in Detroit had been heated with coal, as were >>>>> many others in those days. On the chairs, on the top crossbar, the top >>>>> surface was black, and I assumed that it was the finish. For the first >>>>> >>>> time >>>> >>>>> ever, I went over the dining set with Go-Jo, and the black "finish" on >>>>> >>> the >>> >>>>> top bar got gooey, and wiping it away, a nice walnut finish was >>>>> exposed. >>>>> >>>>> At the time I bought my VV-XVIII, it needed a good going over to remove >>>>> grime, but wasn't as bad as some cabinets I've seen. I went further and >>>>> flowed the original shellac finish with alcohol. Except for some areas, >>>>> >>>> the >>>> >>>>> finish is as new. >>>>> >>>>> I wonder if anyone is keeping a log of serial numbers on these >>>>> >>>> phonographs. >>>> >>>>> I have the impression that all of the jobs came down the line, and were >>>>> consecutively numbered, with no special notation for such special >>>>> treatments as electric motor, circassian walnut, or other woods. One >>>>> interesting little detail: one of our phono collectors in this area has >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> XVIII Electric drive. The cabinet has a cute decoratice cover over the >>>>> crank hole. Evidently, all cabinets were drilled for the crank. >>>>> >>>>> My XVIII has mahogany finish, and spring motor; a cheapie. The serial >>>>> number is 1277. The name plate on the motor board is the copper one. A >>>>> >>> few >>> >>>>> years ago, one was on eBay, with a serial number around 1309, and it >>>>> had >>>>> >>>> an >>>> >>>>> aluminum name plate. So, it appears that, somewhere between mine and >>>>> the >>>>> one for auction, Victor changed name plates. >>>>> >>>>> At present, I'm getting my Victor Electrola 12-25 put together, >>>>> checking >>>>> everything carefully before I put power to the amplifier. I did the >>>>> >>> Go-Jo >>> >>>>> treatment to the cabinet. The finish on it is a mirror. I've never seen >>>>> >>> a >>> >>>>> cabinet that old, in that perfect shape. I'm anxious to have it >>>>> going. I >>>>> also have a 12-15 Electrola, and it's dynamite. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>> From: Andrew Baron >>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 10:04:42 AM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, Douglas. Needless to say, the novelty of seeing this visitor >>>>>> in my music room hasn't begun to lose its luster, and the XVIII will >>>>>> soon regain its. >>>>>> >>>>>> I thought of Go-Jo as well, at least as a first step. The black >>>>>> residue is dense here and there, but it must also be darkening the >>>>>> finish even where it doesn't appear to be built up to opaqueness. >>>>>> >>>>>> Andy >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 20, 2009, at 4:46 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> I've had my VV-XVIII for about 25 years. It took a moment to >>>>>>> realize just >>>>>>> what I was looking at, but $120.00 was a reasonable price, >>>>>>> regardless of >>>>>>> condition. Everything was there, except the storage albums. One >>>>>>> spring was >>>>>>> broken at the outer end, and was quicly repaired. A going over with >>>>>>> Go-Jo >>>>>>> made it clean as new. I know just how you feel, Andy! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [Original Message] >>>>>>>> From: Mobility Scooters >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>>> Date: 10/21/2009 1:26:44 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>> Great story! >>>>>>>> Well done that is just fantastic and to think of how many people >>>>>>>> must of >>>>>>>> seen it before you did in the afternoon. >>>>>>>> I would say it was waiting for you. >>>>>>>> There will be no stopping you going shopping with your wife for the >>>>>>>> rest >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> your life. ha ha >>>>>>>> All the very best >>>>>>>> Tony >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>>>>> ]On >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Ken and Brenda Brekke >>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 20 October 2009 12:57 p.m. >>>>>>>> To: 'Antique Phonograph List' >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Congrats!!!! Any chance of posting pictures??? >>>>>>>> Ken B. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>>>>> ] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> On >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Behalf Of Andrew Baron >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, October 19, 2009 6:46 PM >>>>>>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>>>>>> Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From time to time, I've derived vicarious pleasure from reading of >>>>>>>> some >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the phono-L members' coincidental discovery and acquisition of a >>>>>>>> particularly sought-after or scarce phonograph. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In general, most of the membership are in areas that are either >>>>>>>> >>> more >>> >>>>>>>> populated, or nearer to denser metropolitan areas than here in >>>>>>>> Santa Fe, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> NM. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Roll back the calendar a few decades, and my region is pretty >>>>>>>> sparsely >>>>>>>> populated, with more ranching than any kind of manufacturing or >>>>>>>> other work >>>>>>>> that would draw a larger population. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Fewer people = fewer manufactured goods, including phonographs. >>>>>>>> Add to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the budget for a machine that most New Mexicans had (or prioritized >>>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> music) a century or so ago, and you have relatively few phonographs >>>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> begin >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> with, and most of those in the low-to-middle cost range. Edison >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Standards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola IV's, X's and XI's, and low- end Columbias are inevitably >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> models that turn up, and usually in none too good a condition if >>>>>>>> not out >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a collection. Naturally some desirable machines were brought here >>>>>>>> later >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> on, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> but by and large this hasn't amounted to anything significant, and >>>>>>>> there >>>>>>>> isn't much of a collecting community here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So opportunities to build a collection are rather limited. That >>>>>>>> >>> being >>> >>>>>>> said, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I started collecting in 1974, when I was 12, and my Victor 8-30X, >>>>>>>> Edison >>>>>>>> maroon Gem, Edison early A-250 and a Zonophone Grand >>>>>>>> Opera were all acquired here in Santa Fe, current population >>>>>>>> >>> 72,000. >>> >>>>>>>> Not exactly a small town, but outside of Albuquerque, we are >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> geographically >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> isolated from the big population centers. The Zonophone was >>>>>>>> brought here >>>>>>>> from New England in the '70s, when its past owner moved here. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> To the subject at hand: >>>>>>>> Two days ago, a big local consignment shop was having their annual >>>>>>>> Fall >>>>>>>> sale; everything 30% off. This event draws what seems like half of >>>>>>>> Santa >>>>>>>> Fe, and while my wife and I usually attend it, we generally wait >>>>>>>> until >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> late >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> in the day to avoid the pressing crowds. Anyway, most of what the >>>>>>>> shop >>>>>>>> sells is vintage furniture, rugs, artwork, etc., some of it quite >>>>>>>> nice, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> but >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> rarely anything of particular interest to a phonograph collector, >>>>>>>> so no >>>>>>>> penalty for arriving when convenient. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We had been browsing around for about a quarter of an hour when the >>>>>>>> proprietor let me know that there were "a couple of Victrolas" in >>>>>>>> the next >>>>>>>> room. We continued looking around in the part of the store where >>>>>>>> >>> we >>> >>>>>>>> currently were, and after about ten minutes more, I finally said >>>>>>>> that I'd >>>>>>>> like to take a look and see what the phonographs were. We headed >>>>>>>> casually >>>>>>>> across the distance, through the crowds of people and things toward >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> next >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> room. No sooner had I uttered the words "These machines are going >>>>>>>> to be >>>>>>>> examples of the most common models, and probably overpriced", than >>>>>>>> I could >>>>>>>> see the unmistakable silhouette of Victor XVII or XVIII, just >>>>>>>> sticking out >>>>>>>> beyond the wall separating the rooms. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Quickening my pace (they were still 20 feet away), I prepared my >>>>>>>> mind to >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> see >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> a Victor XVII, the alternative possibility being somewhat beyond my >>>>>>>> powers >>>>>>>> of imagination. Still, a Victor XVII would be a great find >>>>>>>> although I >>>>>>>> already own one (courtesy of a very kind tip from a thoughtful >>>>>>>> phono-L >>>>>>>> member, $200, and a 125 mile round-trip to Albuquerque). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Coming up alongside the curvy machine, I noticed first that the top >>>>>>>> curl >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> the rear corner post was mostly missing -- a clean break from >>>>>>>> bashing the >>>>>>>> machine into a wall or truck bed, no doubt. I also noticed the >>>>>>>> >>> fine, >>> >>>>>>>> expressive trim on the cabinet side and the chevron- shaped veneer >>>>>>>> pattern >>>>>>>> and practically leapt the last couple of feet so I could see the >>>>>>>> front of >>>>>>>> the machine, which left no doubt. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's something unbelievable about finding a top-end machine in >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>>> Mexico, and even though I have the XVII, and was already well aware >>>>>>>> of the >>>>>>>> differences, I had to see the VV-XVIII on the ID plate with my own >>>>>>>> eyes. >>>>>>>> The 3-digit serial number was also a strange thing to behold on a >>>>>>>> >>> New >>> >>>>>>> Mexico >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Victrola. This was a dirty, dusty machine, with some of its edges >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> trim >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> scraped up from careless handling, but at a glance, in generally >>>>>>>> good and >>>>>>>> very solid shape except for a few scrapes and that broken-off upper >>>>>>>> rear >>>>>>>> corner piece. Definitely not something out of someone's phonograph >>>>>>>> collection, and just as you like to find them >>>>>>>> -- clearly untouched for decades. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A quick appraisal of what it had to offer revealed: >>>>>>>> Original gold V key; >>>>>>>> Gold needle cup, all original casters, all correct knobs, front and >>>>>>>> back; >>>>>>>> Large, gold crank escutcheon detached and screws missing, but still >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> sitting >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> on the crank about a half-inch out from the side of the cabinet; >>>>>>>> >>> Near >>> >>>>>>>> perfect felt on the platter; Almost certainly the original gold >>>>>>>> Exhibition >>>>>>>> soundbox, Ser. #87347B, never rebuilt; Very, very dirty under the >>>>>>>> lid and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> in >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> general (what is this greasy, black stuff?); Most of the record >>>>>>>> storage >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> area >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> filled with (non-Victor) matched albums full of classical records, >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> otherwise stuffed to the gills with sheet music; Missing the lower >>>>>>>> key >>>>>>>> escutcheon and motor lift knob (and that maddeningly absent corner >>>>>>>> curl). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Price, $650, minus 30%. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sold! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's home now, and I'm having fun cleaning it up and getting more >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> intimately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> familiar with its exquisite details, and learning why this model is >>>>>>>> so >>>>>>>> prized. It's going to be quite nice, ultimately, with a >>>>>>>> >>> respectable >>> >>>>>>>> original finish, after a many hours of carefully applied elbow >>>>>>>> grease and >>>>>>>> the appropriate preparations. The fancy work and doors on the back >>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>> their gold-plated hardware, concealing a nice compartment came as a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> complete >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> surprise. You never see this view in the books. The motor is >>>>>>>> relatively >>>>>>>> clean (very little of the usual greasy build-up, just a yellowed >>>>>>>> film of >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> old >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> hard residue). A couple drops of oil in all the pertinent places, >>>>>>>> and a >>>>>>>> light coat of fresh >>>>>>>> grease on the governor worm, and it runs very quietly and evenly. >>>>>>>> Even the speed indicator works. The main springs thud something >>>>>>>> awful >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> when >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> winding down though, so I'll treat the motor to a proper tear- down >>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> rebuild when I attend to those noisy springs. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Comparing the total production of the spring-motor XVIII to the >>>>>>>> number of >>>>>>>> Victrolas produced puts it at something like 0.0004 of the total >>>>>>>> 1906 - 1929 production, and .0009 of the 1906-1920 production total >>>>>>>> (Roman >>>>>>>> numeral model-number era). This equates to less than one-tenth of >>>>>>>> one >>>>>>>> percent of the total production of the early Victrola era, and less >>>>>>>> than >>>>>>>> half of that when considering the total Victrola era, if I did my >>>>>>>> math >>>>>>>> right. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Finally (for those who've had the patience to read this far), the >>>>>>>> gold- >>>>>>>> plated motor lift knob was found in the needle cup, and the broken- >>>>>>>> off >>>>>>>> upper-rear corner was found otherwise undamaged, in a recess of the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> cabinet. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It proved a seamless fit to the fracture surface. Anyone got a key >>>>>>>> escutcheon? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I hope you've enjoyed this story, still fresh from the event and >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> accurately >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> conveyed, and I wish similarly exciting phonograph discoveries for >>>>>>>> those >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> of >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> you who have not yet had the pleasure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Kindest regards, >>>>>>>> Andy Baron >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> NEW ADDRESS >>>> Showplace Antique Center >>>> 40 W. 25 St. # 216 & 107 >>>> NY NY 10010 >>>> t. 212-273-9616 >>>> NEW HOURS WED -SUN 11- 5 >>>> MON & TUES BY APPOINTMENT >>>> http://www.wavesllc.com >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From deedeeblais at yahoo.com Thu Oct 22 20:40:52 2009 From: deedeeblais at yahoo.com (DeeDee Blais) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 20:40:52 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [Phono-L] Courtesty Message-ID: <182659.51029.qm@web113807.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Please change the subject line so the entire topic is not repeated. I do enjoy the comments but I've plowed through tons of repeated material. A big thanks! Jerry Blais From cdh041 at earthlink.net Thu Oct 22 20:51:24 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 23:51:24 -0400 Subject: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me Message-ID: <410-220091052335124218@earthlink.net> Good Lord, a product's name is a conspiracy theory??? Gimme a break! It's obvious that the maker of that stuff jujst wanted to give it a name that was sort of attractive, and a tad different. Misspellings were used on products from time immemorial. > [Original Message] > From: > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 10/22/2009 9:30:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Never thought it would happen to me > > True, and I have heard that Kotton Klenser is actually a type of hand cleaner. Who knows. Go to their website at www.kottonklenser,com and there are lotsa products and faqs for use. Interesting. > Is anyone else curious why 2 words normally spelt with a C are spelt with Ks (KK) and the company is in tennessee, and