[SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
Douglas Houston
cdh041 at earthlink.net
Sun Jun 28 21:04:28 PDT 2009
Nope, it's 'tuther way around. (They called it an expander, anyway). The
issue with it wasn't road or wind noise, but fidelity, if we can imagine it
today. It was a gimmick to sell the high end radio. Those years, Chevrolet
had four radio choices for the year. Delco was making those sets, and it's
amazing what went into some of those cars. The sets with the header
speakers were the ones with less power output.The speakers were mounted
immediately above the windshield.in the center of the body header in the
headliner. The speaker shouted in your ear.
F'rinstance (I have a couple), the high end '39 Chevy set had a 3 inch (6
Volt EM Field) tweeter, capacitively coupled to the output of the set), in
the dash, while an 8 inch woofer was in the cylindrical housing on the
firewall, with the power supply and power amps. hey had P-P 6V6 output.
Now, on the wind noise issue. On some Delco sets in that era, there was a
"wind switch" mounted somewhere in the engine compartment. It had a little
vane on it, to catch ar flow. When the car was going at sufficient highway
speeds, this little switch would operate, and increase the gain of the
audio amp. It operated on the inverse feedback loop. Back in the thirties,
on a Delco radio display in my father's garage, there was a wind switch
shown, and he had to explain it to me. While I've had scores of auto
radios, including some of those models, I have never seen a wind switch.
They were all baled up with the cars. Nobody ever knew to save them.
> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz <gbogantz1 at charter.net>
> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> Date: 6/28/2009 11:24:53 PM
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>
> Doug, I don't doubt your description of the Chevy radio. But it makes
more
> sense to me that a car radio would employ a volume COMPRESSOR rather than
an
> expander. Especially during these early years when road, tire, and
engine
> noise were pretty high. A compressor would be pretty desirable in a car
> radio of this vintage.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Douglas Houston" <cdh041 at earthlink.net>
> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:44 PM
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>
>
> > Another one just turned on a light. One of the radios that Chevrolet
> > offered as factory accessories in 1937, had a volume expander on it,
> > believe it or not! I think I may have one in my collection of shrunken
> > heads. It was so simple, it was funny.
> >
> > They had an incandescent bulb, across the secondary of the output
> > transformer, either from a special tap on the winding, or across the
> > entire
> > voice coil. On soft levels, the bulb would be a low value resistive
load
> > on
> > the output, and attenuate it. As levels increased, the bulb would light
> > brighter, increasing the resistance across the speaker, and effect
higher
> > volume. It was purely a brute-force item. There was a switch on the
radio
> > case (they were cable-controlled sets at that time) to select
expansion,
> > in
> > or out. At least, I have the service bulletin, but I'm going to have to
> > look up the set.
> >
> > Aside from the thread somewhat, Chevrolet had a radio in 1941 and 1942,
> > with 4 short wave bands on it. I have one in my '41 Chevy convertible.
> > There were some interesting things in those years of advancing
> > civilization.
> >
> >
> >> [Original Message]
> >> From: <Zonophone2006 at aol.com>
> >> To: <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> >> Date: 6/28/2009 8:38:18 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >>
> >> interesting
> >> in the 70s i knew a rock band that used the expanders too in their live
> >> performances
> >>
> >>
> >> In a message dated 6/27/2009 3:51:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> gbogantz1 at charter.net writes:
> >>
> >> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for
> >> readers
> >> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early
> >> 1930s.
> >> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this
> >> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the
Allwave
> > 23
> >> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated
chassis
> > -
> >> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and
> > the
> >> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which
included
> >> the
> >> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about
> > 1935.
> >> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier,
> > mostly
> >> to
> >> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available
> > yet).
> >> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the
> > invention
> >> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally
designed
> >> for
> >> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a
single
> >> tube
> >> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this
> > tube
> >> to
> >> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable
> > gain
> >> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid
tubes
> >> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of
solid
> >> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though,
the
> >
> >> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then
and
> >> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor
> > (LDR)
> >> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern
recording
> >> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more
modern
> >> circuits.
> >>
> >> Greg Bogantz
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <Zonophone2006 at aol.com>
> >> To: <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >>
> >>
> >> > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame
> >> > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and
> >> > constricting the music
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> >> > phonographs at charter.net writes:
> >> >
> >> > I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years
> > ago
> >> > and
> >> > found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They
> >> tended
> >> > to
> >> > be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why
they
> >
> >> > liked
> >> > vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at
used
> >> > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while
the
> >> > average
> >> > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99.
> >> >
> >> > Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were
> > familiar
> >> > with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder
> >> > records.
> >> > When
> >> > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the
> >> coolest
> >> > thing.
> >> >
> >> > Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new
> > vinyl
> >> > is
> >> > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an
> >> > album.
> >> > Just
> >> > a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music
> >> > called
> >> > SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but
> >> > never
> >> > really caught on as they needed special players to play these
discs.
> >> > Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few
> > years
> >> > SACD
> >> > and DVD-Audio was dead.
> >> >
> >> > When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be
record
> >> > killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While
> > there
> >> > was
> >> > a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never
died.
> >
> >> It
> >> > faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many
young
> >> > people
> >> > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo
systems
> > to
> >> > give
> >> > these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will
> > make
> >> > records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs
> > lack
> >> > and
> >> > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional
> >> > sound.
> >> >
> >> > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very
popular
> > in
> >> > recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of
convenience.
> >> > Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to
cylinders
> >> for
> >> > example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on
one
> >> > disc,
> >> > even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the
turn
> > of
> >> > the
> >> > century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you
> >> > want,
> >> > eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective.
> > This
> >> > is
> >> > proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the
> > space
> >> > used
> >> > to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away
as
> >> > well.
> >> > This awaits to be seen.
> >> >
> >> > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation
> > may
> >>
> >> > not
> >> > have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding
> > stereo
> >> > system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold.
All
> > we
> >> > can
> >> > do is educate and share this information with these younger
> > generations
> >> > in
> >> > order to keep the analog recording alive and well.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > -----Original Message-----
> >> > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
> >> > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM
> >> > To: Antique Phonograph List
> >> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on
> > (young)
> >> > consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than
in
> > the
> >> > last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly
> >> > speaking)
> >> > has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and
> >> > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more
record
> >> > labels
> >> > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated
> >> > strictly
> >> > to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list
> >> said
> >> > it
> >> > already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has --
remember
> > the
> >> > pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his
life
> >> > canvassing for them in the 60's?
> >> >
> >> > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them,
> > and
> >> > none
> >> > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture
> >> > (thankfully).
> >> >
> >> > Best to all,
> >> > Robert
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "John Maeder" <appywander at hotmail.com>
> >> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> >> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM
> >> > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs
> > scratching,
> >> > etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are
> > the
> >> > primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to
it
> >> in
> >> > a
> >> > hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently
read
> >> > that
> >> > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of
decades
> >> > right
> >> > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I
> > guess
> >> > just
> >> > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales
> >> decline
> >> > now because of MP3 and MP4.
> >> >
> >> > John M
> >> >
> >> >> From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com
> >> >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org
> >> >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >> >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700
> >> >>
> >> >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs.
> > Turntables
> >> > are
> >> >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use
> >> >> them
> >> >> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still
sold
> >> >> in
> >> >> almost
> >> >> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl.
> > It's
> >> >> my
> >> >> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player,
download
> >> all
> >> >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless
to
> > the
> >> >> CD.
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
> >> >
> >> > _______________________________________________
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> >> >
> >> >
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