[SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
Greg Bogantz
gbogantz1 at charter.net
Sun Jun 28 20:22:40 PDT 2009
Doug, I don't doubt your description of the Chevy radio. But it makes more
sense to me that a car radio would employ a volume COMPRESSOR rather than an
expander. Especially during these early years when road, tire, and engine
noise were pretty high. A compressor would be pretty desirable in a car
radio of this vintage.
Greg Bogantz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Douglas Houston" <cdh041 at earthlink.net>
To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 28, 2009 9:44 PM
Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> Another one just turned on a light. One of the radios that Chevrolet
> offered as factory accessories in 1937, had a volume expander on it,
> believe it or not! I think I may have one in my collection of shrunken
> heads. It was so simple, it was funny.
>
> They had an incandescent bulb, across the secondary of the output
> transformer, either from a special tap on the winding, or across the
> entire
> voice coil. On soft levels, the bulb would be a low value resistive load
> on
> the output, and attenuate it. As levels increased, the bulb would light
> brighter, increasing the resistance across the speaker, and effect higher
> volume. It was purely a brute-force item. There was a switch on the radio
> case (they were cable-controlled sets at that time) to select expansion,
> in
> or out. At least, I have the service bulletin, but I'm going to have to
> look up the set.
>
> Aside from the thread somewhat, Chevrolet had a radio in 1941 and 1942,
> with 4 short wave bands on it. I have one in my '41 Chevy convertible.
> There were some interesting things in those years of advancing
> civilization.
>
>
>> [Original Message]
>> From: <Zonophone2006 at aol.com>
>> To: <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>> Date: 6/28/2009 8:38:18 PM
>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>>
>> interesting
>> in the 70s i knew a rock band that used the expanders too in their live
>> performances
>>
>>
>> In a message dated 6/27/2009 3:51:23 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> gbogantz1 at charter.net writes:
>>
>> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for
>> readers
>> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early
>> 1930s.
>> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this
>> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave
> 23
>> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated chassis
> -
>> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and
> the
>> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which included
>> the
>> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about
> 1935.
>> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier,
> mostly
>> to
>> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available
> yet).
>> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the
> invention
>> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally designed
>> for
>> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single
>> tube
>> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this
> tube
>> to
>> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable
> gain
>> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid tubes
>> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of solid
>> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though, the
>
>> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then and
>> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor
> (LDR)
>> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern recording
>> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more modern
>> circuits.
>>
>> Greg Bogantz
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <Zonophone2006 at aol.com>
>> To: <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM
>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>>
>>
>> > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame
>> > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and
>> > constricting the music
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>> > phonographs at charter.net writes:
>> >
>> > I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years
> ago
>> > and
>> > found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They
>> tended
>> > to
>> > be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they
>
>> > liked
>> > vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used
>> > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the
>> > average
>> > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99.
>> >
>> > Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were
> familiar
>> > with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder
>> > records.
>> > When
>> > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the
>> coolest
>> > thing.
>> >
>> > Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new
> vinyl
>> > is
>> > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an
>> > album.
>> > Just
>> > a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music
>> > called
>> > SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but
>> > never
>> > really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs.
>> > Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few
> years
>> > SACD
>> > and DVD-Audio was dead.
>> >
>> > When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record
>> > killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While
> there
>> > was
>> > a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died.
>
>> It
>> > faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young
>> > people
>> > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems
> to
>> > give
>> > these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will
> make
>> > records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs
> lack
>> > and
>> > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional
>> > sound.
>> >
>> > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular
> in
>> > recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience.
>> > Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders
>> for
>> > example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one
>> > disc,
>> > even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn
> of
>> > the
>> > century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you
>> > want,
>> > eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective.
> This
>> > is
>> > proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the
> space
>> > used
>> > to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as
>> > well.
>> > This awaits to be seen.
>> >
>> > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation
> may
>>
>> > not
>> > have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding
> stereo
>> > system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All
> we
>> > can
>> > do is educate and share this information with these younger
> generations
>> > in
>> > order to keep the analog recording alive and well.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
>> > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright
>> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM
>> > To: Antique Phonograph List
>> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>> >
>> >
>> > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on
> (young)
>> > consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in
> the
>> > last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly
>> > speaking)
>> > has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and
>> > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record
>> > labels
>> > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated
>> > strictly
>> > to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list
>> said
>> > it
>> > already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember
> the
>> > pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life
>> > canvassing for them in the 60's?
>> >
>> > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them,
> and
>> > none
>> > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture
>> > (thankfully).
>> >
>> > Best to all,
>> > Robert
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From: "John Maeder" <appywander at hotmail.com>
>> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM
>> > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs
> scratching,
>> > etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are
> the
>> > primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it
>> in
>> > a
>> > hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read
>> > that
>> > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades
>> > right
>> > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I
> guess
>> > just
>> > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales
>> decline
>> > now because of MP3 and MP4.
>> >
>> > John M
>> >
>> >> From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com
>> >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org
>> >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>> >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700
>> >>
>> >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs.
> Turntables
>> > are
>> >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use
>> >> them
>> >> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold
>> >> in
>> >> almost
>> >> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl.
> It's
>> >> my
>> >> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download
>> all
>> >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to
> the
>> >> CD.
>> >
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