[SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors

[Douglas Houston]

As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander on his
AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would have
had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the Philharmonic! 

 By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have five
grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the
oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8.

The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for expanders was
the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. It, and
the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to  happen. I
have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 version of
the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the
phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic
amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier
directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA
hunkers really roar!

It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume expander on
its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had one, but
didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a friend.
I'd like to have that monster now! 

In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more sophisticated
as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves-Fairchild
Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove pitch,
so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A
microscope shows it easily. 


> [Original Message]
> From: Greg Bogantz <gbogantz1 at charter.net>
> To: Antique Phonograph List <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>
> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for
readers 
> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early
1930s. 
> dbx didn't invent them by any means.  The earliest appearance of this 
> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave
23 
> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated chassis - 
> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and
the 
> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which included
the 
> volume expander as standard equipment.  These models appeared about 1935. 
> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, mostly
to 
> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available yet). 
> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the
invention 
> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally designed
for 
> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single
tube 
> in superheterodyne radio circuits.  But the extra grids allowed this tube
to 
> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable gain 
> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control.  Pentagrid tubes 
> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of solid 
> state technologies that could do the same thing.  Curiously, though, the 
> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then and 
> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor
(LDR) 
> elements.  Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern recording 
> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more modern 
> circuits.
>
> Greg Bogantz
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: <Zonophone2006 at aol.com>
> To: <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors
>
>
> > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame
> > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and
> > constricting the music
> >
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> > phonographs at charter.net writes:
> >
> > I used  to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago 
> > and
> > found  that many young people were into turntables and vinyl.  They
tended
> > to
> > be high school and college age students.  The biggest reason why  they 
> > liked
> > vinyl was because it was cheap.  They could buy used  records at used
> > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less,  while the
> > average
> > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99.
> >
> > Even  though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were
familiar
> > with  them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records.
> > When
> > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the 
coolest
> > thing.
> >
> > Records have been making a comeback now for several  years and new
vinyl 
> > is
> > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or  more for an album.
> > Just
> > a few years ago there were high-resolution  formats of digital music 
> > called
> > SACD and DVD Audio.  These formats  were near record quality, but never
> > really caught on as they needed special  players to play these discs.
> > Records actually began to overtake these  formats and within a few years
> > SACD
> > and DVD-Audio was dead.
> >
> > When CDs  came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record
> > killers and  records would go the way of the cassette tape.  While
there 
> > was
> > a huge  decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died.  
It
> > faded away for a few years, but is coming back.  There are many  young
> > people
> > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo  systems to
> > give
> > these records the respect they deserve.  A good stereo  system will make
> > records sound better than a CD.  Records have an  ambiance that CDs
lack 
> > and
> > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a  monodimensional sound.
> >
> > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have  become very popular in
> > recent years by people of all ages.  It is a  matter of convenience.
> > Convenience always wins over quality.  Take  disc records to cylinders
for
> > example.  Discs were more compact and  soon provided two songs on one 
> > disc,
> > even though they didn't sound quite as  good as cylinders at the turn
of 
> > the
> > century.  Online music also  allows you to buy only the songs you want,
> > eliminating the waste of a full  album and is more cost effective. 
This 
> > is
> > proving to be the demise of  the CD.  Many stores have reduced the space
> > used
> > to carry the once  mighty CD.  Perhaps the CD will one day go away as 
> > well.
> > This awaits  to be seen.
> >
> > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD  generation
may 
> > not
> > have heard records and probably have never heard a good  sounding stereo
> > system.  That is a shame because it is an experience  to behold.  All
we 
> > can
> > do is educate and share this information with  these younger
generations 
> > in
> > order to keep the analog recording alive and  well.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:  phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org
> > [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org]On Behalf  Of Robert Wright
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM
> > To: Antique  Phonograph List
> > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young  collectors
> >
> >
> > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality  rubs off on
(young)
> > consumers.  We have a more phono-conscious youth  culture now than in
the
> > last 20 years because of it.  Meanwhile,  analog (vinyl, strictly 
> > speaking)
> > has been strengthening its foothold in  the audiophile market (and
> > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and  there are more record
> > labels
> > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND  indie labels dedicated 
> > strictly
> > to audiophile pressings) today than  ever.  Someone else on the list
said 
> > it
> > already -- it comes and goes  in cycles, as it always has -- remember
the
> > pre-war blues 78 market back  when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life
> > canvassing for them in the  60's?
> >
> > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see  them, and 
> > none
> > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall  picture 
> > (thankfully).
> >
> > Best to all,
> > Robert
> >
> >
> >
> > -----  Original Message -----
> > From: "John Maeder"  <appywander at hotmail.com>
> > To: "Antique Phonograph List"  <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
> > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30  PM
> > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >
> >
> >
> > Yes, that was my  line of thinking exactly what with club DJs
scratching,
> > etc., when I  planned my talk.  I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the
> > primary  consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it
in 
> > a
> > hands-on  home environment anymore.  Having said that, I recently read 
> > that
> > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades
> > right
> > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales.  I  guess 
> > just
> > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays?  Even CDs and DVDs are in  sales
decline
> > now because of MP3 and MP4.
> >
> > John M
> >
> >> From:  jay.horenstein at gmail.com
> >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org
> >> Subject: RE:  [Phono-L] Young collectors
> >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34  -0700
> >>
> >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past.  It's still used  in clubs. Turntables
> > are
> >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B.  Classes on how to use them
> >> as instruments are given to aspiring  DJ's.  Stereos are still sold in
> >> almost
> >> every large  store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. 
It's 
> >> my
> >>  guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download 
all
> >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless  to
the
> >>  CD.
> >
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