From svvagans at hotmail.com Mon Jun 1 06:59:24 2009 From: svvagans at hotmail.com (matt hager) Date: Mon Jun 1 07:04:59 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dictaphone Message-ID: Hello All, I have been in the shadows reading and enjoying all the talk and exchange in the forum. But now I have a question. I have been wanting a cylinder Player for awhile now and I have not found the one I can afford or want yet. I did run across this Dictaphone the other day and I was wondering if they are worth picking up and if they play the music cylinders? If so what is a fair price to pay for one. The one in the photos has an electric motor and is a Type A Model 10. Thanks Matt http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08774.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08775.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08776.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08777.jpg _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail? has ever-growing storage! Don?t worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutorial_Storage1_052009 From lherault at bu.edu Mon Jun 1 07:14:43 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Mon Jun 1 07:15:00 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dictaphone In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <002101c9e2c3$4fb7b770$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> They do not play music cylinders because the TPI is different for the Dictaphones ( A part of Columbia, I think). If it has a shaving attachment, it would be good for that though. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of matt hager Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 9:59 AM To: phono Subject: [Phono-L] Dictaphone Hello All, I have been in the shadows reading and enjoying all the talk and exchange in the forum. But now I have a question. I have been wanting a cylinder Player for awhile now and I have not found the one I can afford or want yet. I did run across this Dictaphone the other day and I was wondering if they are worth picking up and if they play the music cylinders? If so what is a fair price to pay for one. The one in the photos has an electric motor and is a Type A Model 10. Thanks Matt http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08774.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08775.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08776.jpg http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii95/radiosailor/DSC08777.jpg _________________________________________________________________ HotmailR has ever-growing storage! Don't worry about storage limits. http://windowslive.com/Tutorial/Hotmail/Storage?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_HM_Tutoria l_Storage1_052009_______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Srsells1 at aol.com Mon Jun 1 09:08:17 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 1 09:13:57 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Conference Slide Show - Yes there are Phonos here! Message-ID: Well, I took a few hours (this takes longer than I expected) to put together a slide show of the conference. I added titles where appropriate and it's pretty much in chronological order. It's long but I didn't want to leave anything out. The first part is the conference itself. Then comes the Banquet where - like a wedding - I took table photos and tried to identify everyone. This was purpose of posting on listserves where folks could actually SEE people they only knew by name. I didn't have a lot of options for music on the free version so if it gets annoying just turn off sound. I hope you enjoy. Some photos are not perfect but I left in to capture the moment. Here is the URL to see it: _http://tinyurl.com/np4o2u_ (http://tinyurl.com/np4o2u) Give it a few seconds to load. You may see an add pop up first but ignore it. The show will start shortly there after. Increase to full screen. BTW, Smilebox has a function to live comments but you may want to just hit reply to comment. BTW, It's possible you will get a duplicate copy of this message for which I apologize. Steve Ramm **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From RCowen at sciencenews.org Mon Jun 1 09:40:39 2009 From: RCowen at sciencenews.org (Ron Cowen) Date: Mon Jun 1 09:56:19 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] news story on early recordings unveiled at ARSC convention Message-ID: <9DF641A65BBD4C4A83DE916594B788F102C90097@Mercury.sciserv.org> from Science News magazine http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/44267/title/Earliest_known_so und_recordings_revealed From Srsells1 at aol.com Tue Jun 2 05:37:36 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Tue Jun 2 05:38:13 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] news story on early recordings unveiled at ARSC convention Message-ID: Here's the AUDIO version! For those who may have missed it on NPR, here is link to the 6 minute update on the Phonautograph recordings discovered last year and presented at the ARSC Conference last Friday. It's interview with David Giovanonni and Patrick Feaster. Well worth listening to and HISTORICALLY important. _http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104797243_ (http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=104797243) Steve **************We found the real ?Hotel California? and the ?Seinfeld? diner. What will you find? Explore WhereItsAt.com. (http://www.whereitsat.com/#/music/all-spots/355/47.796964/-66.374711/2/Youve-Found-Where-Its-At?ncid=eml cntnew00000007) From RCowen at sciencenews.org Tue Jun 2 06:01:03 2009 From: RCowen at sciencenews.org (Ron Cowen) Date: Tue Jun 2 06:02:32 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] earliest recorded sounds news story from ARSC meeting Message-ID: <9DF641A65BBD4C4A83DE916594B788F101CA85E0@Mercury.sciserv.org> http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/44267/title/Earliest_known_sound_recordings_revealed (from Science News magazine) From steve_noreen at msn.com Tue Jun 2 09:43:22 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Tue Jun 2 09:43:27 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=120420336503 Does anyone know why this one went so high? Steve From victrola at triton.net Tue Jun 2 10:50:53 2009 From: victrola at triton.net (George) Date: Tue Jun 2 10:51:03 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Victors for Sale Message-ID: I have 2 Victor machines which I am offering on the lists first. Both are in as found unrestored/untouched condition. They both came from private individuals or estates in years past. Both need parts or repairs, but are both very restorable machines. I need to raise some cash and am realizing I will never get to all my projects. I can deliver, for no additional charges, next week to Union or Phonovention in July. I would prefer not to ship the Victor V and it's horn, but the Monarch could be packed and shipped. I'll get and send pictures upon request. The Victor V has it's original oak Spear Tip horn. Horn requires some repairs. I've had both Don Gfell and Bill White look at it and they both say it is very restorable. It has not been previously messed with making their restoration job harder. This machine is almost complete and original, but does have a broken main spring and missing reproducer. Price is $1895.00. The other is a Victor M front mount. This machine has turntable, wood tonearm and support. It is missing the horn, elbow, crank and reproducer. It is all original and as found. Motor does runs. Again not messed with. Price is $895.00. I'll entertain offers on either machine, but I think I've got them priced fairly based on required work or parts needed. I also have an interesting Col AT in early A style case. Works fine, but has repro. horn and crank. Asking $395.00 on this one. Thank you, Great Lakes Antique Phonographs George Vollema 5092 Muskego Dr Newaygo MI 49337-8556 231-652-5753 www.victroladoctor.com From appywander at hotmail.com Tue Jun 2 11:04:51 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Tue Jun 2 11:04:55 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Oak and mahogany Operas for sale Message-ID: I have an oak and mahogany Opera for sale. The mahogany Opera comes with the original cylinder cabinet it was purchased new with in 1911. Both are listed with pictures and descriptions and contact info at http://forum.talkingmachine.info/viewforum.php?f=9. Can deliver to Union. John M From lherault at bu.edu Tue Jun 2 12:24:54 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Tue Jun 2 12:25:45 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <006501c9e3b7$cf619910$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Interesting. According to the seller, it has a good stylus because it sounds good but they have not played it. Did they use an independent testing lab? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:43 PM To: phonolist; Phono-l Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item= 120420336503 Does anyone know why this one went so high? Steve _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From mgraziano1 at o-lite.com Tue Jun 2 12:26:55 2009 From: mgraziano1 at o-lite.com (Michael Graziano) Date: Tue Jun 2 12:31:06 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar In-Reply-To: <006501c9e3b7$cf619910$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <006501c9e3b7$cf619910$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <301BE25C32E4457DBFC07F2E128CD1BD@Archimedes> Simple. They lied, and were too stupid to see the apparent give-away in their description. That's someone who spent some time writing the description, and probably edit a few times and didn't proof the edits to see if they matched the rest of the description. Not an issue if you don't lie. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ron L Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:25 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar Interesting. According to the seller, it has a good stylus because it sounds good but they have not played it. Did they use an independent testing lab? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:43 PM To: phonolist; Phono-l Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item= 120420336503 Does anyone know why this one went so high? Steve _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cenfin at comcast.net Tue Jun 2 13:14:43 2009 From: cenfin at comcast.net (Albert) Date: Tue Jun 2 13:14:49 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar References: <006501c9e3b7$cf619910$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <301BE25C32E4457DBFC07F2E128CD1BD@Archimedes> Message-ID: <000b01c9e3be$c4a68ab0$7501a8c0@Albert> If I remember Steve Medved restored one of those for me many years ago. he installed a new stylus and removed the spring. It is the best sounding reproducer I own. I put it on a Standard model E with an oak horn and it sounds almost high fidelity. I dont think $250. is exhorbitant, as long as the seller is telling the truth about the rehab. AL Menashe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Graziano" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:26 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar > Simple. They lied, and were too stupid to see the apparent give-away in > their description. That's someone who spent some time writing the > description, and probably edit a few times and didn't proof the edits to > see > if they matched the rest of the description. > > Not an issue if you don't lie. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Ron L > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:25 PM > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar > > Interesting. According to the seller, it has a good stylus because it > sounds good but they have not played it. Did they use an independent > testing lab? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Steven Medved > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:43 PM > To: phonolist; Phono-l > Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item= > 120420336503 > > Does anyone know why this one went so high? > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andersun at tampabay.rr.com Tue Jun 2 14:06:30 2009 From: andersun at tampabay.rr.com (Steve Andersen) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:29:32 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar In-Reply-To: <301BE25C32E4457DBFC07F2E128CD1BD@Archimedes> References: <006501c9e3b7$cf619910$70d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <301BE25C32E4457DBFC07F2E128CD1BD@Archimedes> Message-ID: <3A4271F2-2991-41A4-83A9-0CC9504A5251@tampabay.rr.com> This seller has been selling many items from the former Clarence Ferguson collection. Clarence Ferguson was the man who owned the last Edison shops and willed his collection of Edisonia to Larry Donley of the Seven Acres Musuem in Union, IL. The seller is somehow related to the Museum and is from Dekalb IL which is about 20 miles south of Union. Surprised the seller would have such a poor description considering the many Edison related items that the seller has listed before. S Andersen On Jun 2, 2009, at 3:26 PM, Michael Graziano wrote: > Simple. They lied, and were too stupid to see the apparent give- > away in > their description. That's someone who spent some time writing the > description, and probably edit a few times and didn't proof the > edits to see > if they matched the rest of the description. > > Not an issue if you don't lie. > > -Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of Ron L > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 2:25 PM > To: 'Antique Phonograph List' > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar > > Interesting. According to the seller, it has a good stylus because it > sounds good but they have not played it. Did they use an independent > testing lab? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of Steven Medved > Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 12:43 PM > To: phonolist; Phono-l > Subject: [Phono-L] Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item= > 120420336503 > > Does anyone know why this one went so high? > > Steve > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From kbab1 at charter.net Tue Jun 2 14:31:26 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:41:10 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] My Union wish list Message-ID: For this year's Union show, my wish list is a bit smaller than last year. I am looking for a nice original lid for an Edison Spring Motor and a mahogany lid for an Edison model B Standard. If anyone has either of these available, please contact me off list at kbab1@charter.net Thanks, Ken Brekke From nipper27 at comcast.net Tue Jun 2 14:47:25 2009 From: nipper27 at comcast.net (Nipper) Date: Tue Jun 2 14:55:58 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Need a Case For a Victor P Late Message-ID: <2AFAD67219524D5C96EA51A76440D5B7@NickPC> I was wondering if anyone has a nice original Case for a Victor P production # over 19000. If so you may email me at Nipper27@comcast.net Thanks nick From tboermas at comcast.net Tue Jun 2 19:23:41 2009 From: tboermas at comcast.net (tboermas) Date: Tue Jun 2 19:31:33 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Regina Sublima Piano For Sale In-Reply-To: <9DF641A65BBD4C4A83DE916594B788F101CA85E0@Mercury.sciserv.org> References: <9DF641A65BBD4C4A83DE916594B788F101CA85E0@Mercury.sciserv.org> Message-ID: If anyone is interested, a friend of mine in the St Louis area is selling an oak Regina Sublima Piano. It is working and comes with 1 roll. He can bring to Union if needed. Asking price is $4500. His name is Wayne Randolph and his email address is: batrwr@sbcglobal.net Pictures Links: http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina015.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina016.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina017.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina018.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina019.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina020.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina021.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina022.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina023.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina024.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina025.jpg http://i653.photobucket.com/albums/uu260/Robertr_2009/regina027.jpg Thanks, Kevin Boerma From ClockworkHome at aol.com Tue Jun 2 23:57:24 2009 From: ClockworkHome at aol.com (ClockworkHome@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 3 00:03:01 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar Message-ID: In a message dated 6/2/2009 10:02:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, steve_noreen@msn.com writes: Does anyone know why this one went so high? It only takes two bidders to get into a bidding war. Most likely the two were not Edison collectors or they would know the N Reproducer was *never* a 2 minute reproducer. So never having seen a 2 minute N, the 'WOW! Here is something really rare!' mentalitiy kicks in and away the bidding goes. It never occurs to them that reason for such rarity is that Edison never made them. That particular seller is remarkably unknowledgeable about Edison slap-together reproducer conglomerations and does not put corrections into the descriptions when told of errors. Bidders had better know their stuff before putting in a bid on a Clarence Ferguson 'original old stock reproducer.' Clarence was a known conglomerator of parts and did much experimentation so anything from his trove must always be suspect. The same goes for a machine eBay recently had with an 'original horn' that was a Frick's Freak peach can horn cobbled together about 1970. It went way too high to someone not knowing junk when bidding. The broken Bond-O seam on the horn didn't even slow them down. Too many new collectors do not arm themselves with all of the fine books available so as to avoid bogus phonographic collectables. Regards, Al **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Wed Jun 3 06:55:32 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm@comcast.net) Date: Wed Jun 3 06:55:37 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1740524603.65411244037332584.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Do you have the link to this machine so we can see it? ----- Original Message ----- From: ClockworkHome@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, June 3, 2009 2:57:24 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Re: Round Weight N with 2 minute stylus & Bar In a message dated 6/2/2009 10:02:25 AM Pacific Daylight Time, steve_noreen@msn.com writes: Does anyone know why this one went so high? It only takes two bidders to get into a bidding war. Most likely the two were not Edison collectors or they would know the N Reproducer was *never* a 2 minute reproducer. So never having seen a 2 minute N, the 'WOW! Here is something really rare!' mentalitiy kicks in and away the bidding goes. It never occurs to them that reason for such rarity is that Edison never made them. That particular seller is remarkably unknowledgeable about Edison slap-together reproducer conglomerations and does not put corrections into the descriptions when told of errors. Bidders had better know their stuff before putting in a bid on a Clarence Ferguson 'original old stock reproducer.' Clarence was a known conglomerator of parts and did much experimentation so anything from his trove must always be suspect. The same goes for a machine eBay recently had with an 'original horn' that was a Frick's Freak peach can horn cobbled together about 1970. It went way too high to someone not knowing junk when bidding. The broken Bond-O seam on the horn didn't even slow them down. Too many new collectors do not arm themselves with all of the fine books available so as to avoid bogus phonographic collectables. Regards, Al **************Shop Inspiron, Studio and XPS Laptops at Dell.com (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222616459x1201464730/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.d oubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218145%3B37264238%3Bd) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 3 14:00:27 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Wed Jun 3 14:00:34 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Phonograph Monthly Message-ID: <1919A6377E7448BC8ADF22B1B606A124@Wilenzick> I am selling a complete set of EDISON PHONOGRAPH MONTHLY, the 14 volume hard-bound reprint editions produced by Wendell Moore during the years 1976-1989. These volumes contain all 166 bulletins issued by Edison from 1903 to 1916 and give a complete history of his phonograph production during those years. This set is numbered 347 out of some 400 produced by Moore, and are signed by him. This set of books is invaluable for any collector interested in the history of Edison phonographs. The volumes are in perfect condition, same as new. $550 plus shipping. If interested, please contact me off-list at: wilenzick@bellsouth.net From rvuill at comcast.net Thu Jun 4 15:39:05 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Thu Jun 4 15:47:30 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for a Record Hold Down For a Thorens Excelda Message-ID: I'm looking for a record hold down nut for a Thorens Excelda. This is the same round knurled nut used to keep the top cover in place when the machine is closed up. If any of you have a spare please contact me at rvuill@comcast.net Thanks From ClockworkHome at aol.com Thu Jun 4 18:08:07 2009 From: ClockworkHome at aol.com (ClockworkHome@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 4 18:13:28 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Frick's Freak Horns... Message-ID: I went looking for the link but it must have been past the 30 day limit eBay has on closed items. However, I believe the horn on item # 120427328104 is a Frick's Freak horn but cannot be sure as the profile is not clear. Karl Frick horns have typically a very thin conical section until the horn petals which play out abruptly on the ends. Most were held together with Bond-O and a few solder spots. The 2 piece Fireside Horn is one of the worst. The screw together part was a cap and spout from an oil can where the cap is cut out and the spout is soldered to a tin cone. Thus the horn is very narrow until you get to the petals which just suddenly bend outward. Regards, Al **************Limited Time Offers: Save big on popular laptops at Dell (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221354145x1201369495/aol?redir=http:%2F %2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215221161%3B37268813%3By) From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Jun 5 05:04:41 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri Jun 5 05:04:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola V Message-ID: Hello, With regards to the Amberola V did any have red bed plates? Thanks, Steve From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Fri Jun 5 19:48:09 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm@comcast.net) Date: Fri Jun 5 19:48:16 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] What is this? Message-ID: <1980419487.964331244256489617.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grafonola-Upright-Piano-Style-Crank-Phonograph_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38028QQitemZ270401761547QQsalenotsupported This is advertised as a Granfonola but it does not appear to be a Columbia. Does anyone know what make this is ? Bruce From kbab1 at charter.net Fri Jun 5 19:52:34 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Fri Jun 5 20:00:10 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Contact information Message-ID: <0Sur1c00R2y5JfL05Susrz.@charter.net> Does anyone on this list have contact information for Terry Baer? I believe that is how his last name is spelled. Please contact me off list at kbab1@charter.net Thanks, Ken B. From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 22:31:08 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Fri Jun 5 22:31:15 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] What is this? Message-ID: <409136.1273.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bruce, this is not a Grafonola. There is a picture of it in in Baumbach's Columbia book. This is a generic phonograph from the 1920's made to look like an upright piano. It's too bad that it is unmarked. That piece would be a nice addition to my collection. Good luck, Harvey Kravitz --- On Fri, 6/5/09, bruce78rpm@comcast.net wrote: From: bruce78rpm@comcast.net Subject: [Phono-L] What is this? To: "Phonolist" Cc: "Phono-L" Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 7:48 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grafonola-Upright-Piano-Style-Crank-Phonograph_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38028QQitemZ270401761547QQsalenotsupported This is advertised as a Granfonola but it does not appear to be a Columbia. Does anyone know what make this is ? Bruce _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Fri Jun 5 22:31:08 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Fri Jun 5 22:31:18 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] What is this? Message-ID: <409136.1273.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Bruce, this is not a Grafonola. There is a picture of it in in Baumbach's Columbia book. This is a generic phonograph from the 1920's made to look like an upright piano. It's too bad that it is unmarked. That piece would be a nice addition to my collection. Good luck, Harvey Kravitz --- On Fri, 6/5/09, bruce78rpm@comcast.net wrote: From: bruce78rpm@comcast.net Subject: [Phono-L] What is this? To: "Phonolist" Cc: "Phono-L" Date: Friday, June 5, 2009, 7:48 PM http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Grafonola-Upright-Piano-Style-Crank-Phonograph_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ38028QQitemZ270401761547QQsalenotsupported This is advertised as a Granfonola but it does not appear to be a Columbia. Does anyone know what make this is ? Bruce _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From kend at lemur.org Sat Jun 6 04:41:52 2009 From: kend at lemur.org (Ken Danckaert) Date: Sat Jun 6 04:47:17 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Interview on Leon Scott recordings Message-ID: <4A2A5600.1000701@lemur.org> This is a great interview to listen to. It is a piece of history that really adds to the phonograph hobby. The interview with Dave Giovanni on the web page link. Go to www.houndcountry.com and click on the mic. It sounds good and I think you will like it. Maybe others would like it so pass on the info if you like. Ken Danckaert From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sun Jun 7 01:45:19 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 7 01:45:24 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Edison Question In-Reply-To: <8CBB536F218957F-CD0-3A02@webmail-dx08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <110522748.1116521244364319019.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I was just forwarded the following question from a friend. Does anyone have any ideas? I am assuming what he is talking about is a needle for the later "Needle Cut" 78rpm records. I have never come across one of these rarities. Bruce What is an old " Edison Full-Tone Sapphire" needle worth --- in original envelope ? Needle is mint condition as far as I can tell, as it seems to have a fine point --- never used maybe. R What can an email address say about you? Find out here. From edisone1 at verizon.net Sun Jun 7 01:57:11 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sun Jun 7 02:57:33 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Edison Question References: <110522748.1116521244364319019.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Likely this is something provided for playing Diamond Discs on Brunswick, Sonora, or other machine with convertible tonearm. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Phonolist" ; "Phono-L" Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 4:45 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Edison Question >I was just forwarded the following question from a friend. Does anyone have >any ideas? I am assuming what he is talking about is a needle for the later >"Needle Cut" 78rpm records. I have never come across one of these rarities. > > Bruce > > > What is an old " Edison Full-Tone Sapphire" needle worth --- in original > envelope ? > Needle is mint condition as far as I can tell, as it seems to have a fine > point --- never used maybe. > > R > > > > What can an email address say about you? Find out here. > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From funks2 at comcast.net Sun Jun 7 19:47:18 2009 From: funks2 at comcast.net (michael and suellen funk) Date: Sun Jun 7 19:55:42 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Anyone able to transport a tabletop DD to Union? In-Reply-To: <409136.1273.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <409136.1273.qm@web54304.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9B0116B1F0534B0CBA7F9C07D24ACBD1@your4dacd0ea75> Hello, One last desperate request to see if anyone can pick up an Edison DD tabletop from Matt Brown's in Reading, PA and bring it to Union. Offering $50. Help a good cause -- I have the base and you will be instrumental in reuniting an Edison B-80 with a matching base. Thanks for any help.... Funks2@comcast.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rvuill at comcast.net Tue Jun 9 03:43:54 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Tue Jun 9 03:52:21 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Motor Problem with Thorens Excelda References: <110522748.1116521244364319019.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I'm repairing a Thorens Excelda. Everything on the motor looks good except it is impossible to get it to hold speed correctly. I've adjusted the governor six ways to Sunday and no luck. The problem is that the motor doesn't slow down and stop but is totally inconsistent when sped up and the sound is garbled and indistinguishable. I noticed that there was about 10 degrees play in the turntable spindle and the bronze gear that connects to the worm. However, it seemed that if there was any tension on the turntable like that caused by the weight of the reproducer in the record groove the play in the spindle/gear was overcome. Suddenly the amount of play increased to about 180 degrees and I found there is a small piece of wire that connects the record spindle to the bronze gear. This piece of wire acts almost like a sheer pin. I'm guessing it was put there to prevent damage to the bronze gear or the worm gear in the governor. I thought one way to determine if this is the problem would be to put a little super glue between the spindle and bronze gear to make this connection solid. I can't think of any harm that this would do and would allow me to test my theory without disassembling the motor. In the unlikely event that I should have to remove the bronze gear from the spindle at a later time, I could dissolve the super glue with acetone. Have any of you run into this problem? Is there any reason for play between the spindle and bronze gear? What is the reason for the shear pin? I look forward to youur response so that I can get this Excelda running properly. From marioaf at optusnet.com.au Wed Jun 10 22:31:41 2009 From: marioaf at optusnet.com.au (Mario Frazzetto) Date: Wed Jun 10 14:32:55 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] WANTED: Fireside Message-ID: <4A3096BD.8010308@optusnet.com.au> Hi Guys, I'm after a MINT or near MINT Fireside (model A), No horn required as they are prohibitively large to ship. If you have something, please email me price and pics to: marioaf@optusnet.com.au Best Regards, Mario From kbab1 at charter.net Wed Jun 10 15:27:47 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Wed Jun 10 15:39:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] WANTED: Fireside In-Reply-To: <4A3096BD.8010308@optusnet.com.au> Message-ID: <2NU71c0022y5JfL05NU7np.@charter.net> Mario, Please contact me off list. I might be able to help. Ken Brekke kbab1@charter.net -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Mario Frazzetto Sent: Thursday, June 11, 2009 12:32 AM To: Phono-L; Phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] WANTED: Fireside Hi Guys, I'm after a MINT or near MINT Fireside (model A), No horn required as they are prohibitively large to ship. If you have something, please email me price and pics to: marioaf@optusnet.com.au Best Regards, Mario _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jimcip at earthlink.net Thu Jun 11 22:01:25 2009 From: jimcip at earthlink.net (jimcip@earthlink.net) Date: Thu Jun 11 22:01:32 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] 1920s Dance Band 78s For Sale Message-ID: <380-2200965125125781@earthlink.net> A couple of days ago I brought 247 1920s Dance Band 78rpm Records to my stall at "The Antique Gallery" in Round Rock, Texas about 15 miles north of Austin on IH35. Headed north on I35, take Exit 251 & continue north on the access road through the traffic signal until you see sign for "Conn's" in a shopping center to your right. The Antique Gallery is located next to Conn's. My stall is on row B, near the back. In addition to the 1920s Dance Band 78s just put out, it contains thousands of other 78rpm records, as well as some diamond discs & blue amberol cylinders. For fans of 1920s Dance Music living in the Central Texas Area or visitors passing through these records may be worth checking out. Jim Cartwright IMMORTAL PERFORMANCES jimcip@earthlink.net From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Jun 12 06:29:58 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Fri Jun 12 06:30:05 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] 1920s Dance Band 78s For Sale Message-ID: <823838.3633.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Oh I am so jealous. Wish I could go to Texas and go through all those dance band records!! --- On Thu, 6/11/09, jimcip@earthlink.net wrote: From: jimcip@earthlink.net Subject: [Phono-L] 1920s Dance Band 78s For Sale To: "phono-l" Date: Thursday, June 11, 2009, 10:01 PM A couple of days ago I brought 247 1920s Dance Band 78rpm Records to my stall at "The Antique Gallery" in Round Rock, Texas about 15 miles north of Austin on IH35.? ? Headed north on I35, take Exit 251 & continue north on the access road through the traffic signal until you see sign for "Conn's" in a shopping center to your right.? ? The Antique Gallery is located next to Conn's.???My stall is on row B, near the back.? ? In addition to the 1920s Dance Band 78s just put out, it contains thousands of other 78rpm records, as well as some diamond discs & blue amberol cylinders.? ? For fans of 1920s Dance Music living in the Central Texas Area or visitors passing through these records may be worth checking out. ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???Jim Cartwright ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ???IMMORTAL PERFORMANCES jimcip@earthlink.net _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Jun 12 06:39:43 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Fri Jun 12 06:39:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) Message-ID: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hello All I was perusing Craiglist the other day, and my heart stopped when I saw an ad that said 'VICTROLA COLUMBIA LIONS HEADS'.? I opened the ad and read, and the machine turned out to be an upright Reginaphone. The owner didn't have a picture of it but referred readers to a collectors website that showed the type of machine she had. I contacted her right away and asked if it was still available. She?that yes she still had it but that a collector was coming down from Northern California later in the?morning to see it. My heart sank. She said if he did not buy it she would contact me as I was next in line. She explained that she was moving and could not take it with her. Of course I knew that no one in his right mind would pass it up, especialy if it was in the condition she said it was. And especially at the price she quoted - $950 or best honest offer. Sigh. John Robles From rvuill at comcast.net Fri Jun 12 08:09:48 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Fri Jun 12 08:09:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed References: Message-ID: I just tried to call the gentleman named Keith from North Carolina that you recommended. I dialed the number you listed and was told that it is incorrect. Does anyone have the correct telephone number for Keith? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed > hi > i am and have used two > one is named kieth out of nc his number is 1-828-238-2727 or > and the other is john wasserman > Piano Pro Moving and Storage > office 563.580.5035 > > > In a message dated 5/26/2009 5:44:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: > > I am interested in having two large cylinder record cabinets and other > large phono items shipped from New Orleans to Atlanta. Does anyone have > experience in shipping items like this, and could offer suggestions on > the least > expensive way to do it. I recall seeing posts about persons that > transport victrolas, etc., but don't have names available. Anyone have > experience > with Craters & Freighters or Nationwide Delivery Systems, or similar? > Thanks for your help. > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377034x1201454326/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > MaystepsfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date: 05/26/09 08:53:00 From elcaminonyc at aol.com Fri Jun 12 08:14:29 2009 From: elcaminonyc at aol.com (elcaminonyc@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 12 08:21:54 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBB9879E095136-CF8-246@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> 828 432 7510 pete -----Original Message----- From: Bob To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 11:09 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed I just tried to call the gentleman named Keith from North Carolina that you recommended. I dialed the number you listed and was told that it is incorrect. Does anyone have the correct telephone number for Keith? Thanks? ----- Original Message ----- From: ? To: ? Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:59 PM? Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed? ? > hi? > i am and have used two? > one is named kieth out of nc his number is 1-828-238-2727 or? > and the other is john wasserman? > Piano Pro Moving and Storage? > office 563.580.5035? >? >? > In a message dated 5/26/2009 5:44:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,? > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes:? >? > I am interested in having two large cylinder record cabinets and other? > large=2 0phono items shipped from New Orleans to Atlanta. Does anyone have? > experience in shipping items like this, and could offer suggestions on > the least? > expensive way to do it. I recall seeing posts about persons that? > transport victrolas, etc., but don't have names available. Anyone have > experience? > with Craters & Freighters or Nationwide Delivery Systems, or similar?? > Thanks for your help.? >? > Ray? > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? >? > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy? > steps!? > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377034x1201454326/aol?redir= http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=? > MaystepsfooterNO62)? > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? ? ------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------? ? ? No virus found in this incoming message.? Checked by AVG - www.avg.com? V ersion: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date: 05/26/09 08:53:00? ? _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Fri Jun 12 09:39:36 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 12 09:45:40 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed Message-ID: here is kieths number he is delivering some machines to me today 1-828-432-7510 it goes to his voice mail a lot of times best r In a message dated 6/12/2009 11:11:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rvuill@comcast.net writes: I just tried to call the gentleman named Keith from North Carolina that you recommended. I dialed the number you listed and was told that it is incorrect. Does anyone have the correct telephone number for Keith? Thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 8:59 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shipping info needed > hi > i am and have used two > one is named kieth out of nc his number is 1-828-238-2727 or > and the other is john wasserman > Piano Pro Moving and Storage > office 563.580.5035 > > > In a message dated 5/26/2009 5:44:05 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: > > I am interested in having two large cylinder record cabinets and other > large phono items shipped from New Orleans to Atlanta. Does anyone have > experience in shipping items like this, and could offer suggestions on > the least > expensive way to do it. I recall seeing posts about persons that > transport victrolas, etc., but don't have names available. Anyone have > experience > with Craters & Freighters or Nationwide Delivery Systems, or similar? > Thanks for your help. > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 > easy > steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377034x1201454326/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= > MaystepsfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.40/2135 - Release Date: 05/26/09 08:53:00 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************Shop Dell?s full line of Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221881320x1201406166/aol?redir=http:%2F%2 Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215218036%3B37264217%3Bz) From smstitt at gmail.com Fri Jun 12 14:27:35 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:35:39 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) In-Reply-To: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0906121427k3ea090c3t461b85786ffd1ad1@mail.gmail.com> Well John I would have to give this some thought. I don't like to horn in on anybody's action but if the ad said........ $950 or best honest offer, I don't know that I wouldn't make an honest offer! Mike oldcranky On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:39 AM, john robles wrote: > Hello All > I was perusing Craiglist the other day, and my heart stopped when I saw an > ad that said 'VICTROLA COLUMBIA LIONS HEADS'. I opened the ad and read, and > the machine turned out to be an upright Reginaphone. The owner didn't have a > picture of it but referred readers to a collectors website that showed the > type of machine she had. I contacted her right away and asked if it was > still available. She that yes she still had it but that a collector was > coming down from Northern California later in the morning to see it. My > heart sank. She said if he did not buy it she would contact me as I was next > in line. She explained that she was moving and could not take it with her. > Of course I knew that no one in his right mind would pass it up, especialy > if it was in the condition she said it was. And especially at the price she > quoted - $950 or best honest offer. Sigh. > John Robles > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From majesticrecord at snet.net Fri Jun 12 14:43:35 2009 From: majesticrecord at snet.net (Glenn Longwell) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:50:22 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) In-Reply-To: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <240498.79909.qm@web83709.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> John Where was it located.? I had someone write to me several months ago saying they had one of these who was in Desert Hot Springs, CA.? I think I even posted it to this list.? I have some pictures but they aren't too good.? It was a Columbia and they had some music box discs with it.? Not sure if they had the attachment for it.? But it was on the opposite coast from me so passed. Glenn ________________________________ From: john robles To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:39:43 AM Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) Hello All I was perusing Craiglist the other day, and my heart stopped when I saw an ad that said 'VICTROLA COLUMBIA LIONS HEADS'.? I opened the ad and read, and the machine turned out to be an upright Reginaphone. The owner didn't have a picture of it but referred readers to a collectors website that showed the type of machine she had. I contacted her right away and asked if it was still available. She?that yes she still had it but that a collector was coming down from Northern California later in the?morning to see it. My heart sank. She said if he did not buy it she would contact me as I was next in line. She explained that she was moving and could not take it with her. Of course I knew that no one in his right mind would pass it up, especialy if it was in the condition she said it was. And especially at the price she quoted - $950 or best honest offer. Sigh. John Robles _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Jun 12 14:55:04 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri Jun 12 14:55:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] #2 Columbia Eagle cylinder reproducer Message-ID: Hello, Does anyone have a nice photo of the top and bottom of a #2 Columbia Eagle reproducer that goes on the Type AT first style? If so and you would have time to cut and paste my e-mail address and send it to me I would really appreciate it. Best Regards, Steve From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Jun 12 14:57:13 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten@pacbell.net) Date: Fri Jun 12 15:04:52 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) In-Reply-To: <240498.79909.qm@web83709.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> References: <644350.86901.qm@web83007.mail.mud.yahoo.com><240498.79909.qm@web83709.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1318870328-1244843812-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1439600004-@bxe1231.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hmm, LA I think. The ad's been pulled so I can't go back and check. I guess the guy from northern CA got it! I know his first name but I don't want to give it here on the board, wouldn't be sporting, I'm sure... Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Original Message----- From: Glenn Longwell Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 14:43:35 To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) John Where was it located.? I had someone write to me several months ago saying they had one of these who was in Desert Hot Springs, CA.? I think I even posted it to this list.? I have some pictures but they aren't too good.? It was a Columbia and they had some music box discs with it.? Not sure if they had the attachment for it.? But it was on the opposite coast from me so passed. Glenn ________________________________ From: john robles To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 9:39:43 AM Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) Hello All I was perusing Craiglist the other day, and my heart stopped when I saw an ad that said 'VICTROLA COLUMBIA LIONS HEADS'.? I opened the ad and read, and the machine turned out to be an upright Reginaphone. The owner didn't have a picture of it but referred readers to a collectors website that showed the type of machine she had. I contacted her right away and asked if it was still available. She?that yes she still had it but that a collector was coming down from Northern California later in the?morning to see it. My heart sank. She said if he did not buy it she would contact me as I was next in line. She explained that she was moving and could not take it with her. Of course I knew that no one in his right mind would pass it up, especialy if it was in the condition she said it was. And especially at the price she quoted - $950 or best honest offer. Sigh. John Robles _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Jun 12 15:05:26 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri Jun 12 15:07:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Gene Ballard Message-ID: Hello, Did anyone know Gene Ballard? I dealt with him when I first started to collect and the last letter he wrote to me he explained he was retiring as he would be 83 soon and thought it was time he went fishing. I always wondered how he did. Steve From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Jun 12 15:16:55 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten@pacbell.net) Date: Fri Jun 12 15:16:40 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) Message-ID: <2066006507-1244844993-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1453736160-@bxe1231.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I should put that to the board..what would you do? I'd have a crisis..she wants 950, but I know it is worth significantly more. Maybe I am a fool, and she's asking what she wants for it, but I'd probably offer a couple of thousand if I had it to spare. She'd be thrilled and I'd still have gotten a deal. Win-win. ------Original Message------ From: Mike Stitt Sender: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] A Sad Day Indeed (missed opportunity) Sent: Jun 12, 2009 2:27 PM Well John I would have to give this some thought. I don't like to horn in on anybody's action but if the ad said........ $950 or best honest offer, I don't know that I wouldn't make an honest offer! Mike oldcranky On Fri, Jun 12, 2009 at 6:39 AM, john robles wrote: > Hello All > I was perusing Craiglist the other day, and my heart stopped when I saw an > ad that said 'VICTROLA COLUMBIA LIONS HEADS'. I opened the ad and read, and > the machine turned out to be an upright Reginaphone. The owner didn't have a > picture of it but referred readers to a collectors website that showed the > type of machine she had. I contacted her right away and asked if it was > still available. She that yes she still had it but that a collector was > coming down from Northern California later in the morning to see it. My > heart sank. She said if he did not buy it she would contact me as I was next > in line. She explained that she was moving and could not take it with her. > Of course I knew that no one in his right mind would pass it up, especialy > if it was in the condition she said it was. And especially at the price she > quoted - $950 or best honest offer. Sigh. > John Robles > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From loran at oldcrank.com Fri Jun 12 21:49:42 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Fri Jun 12 21:49:46 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Fwd: Duplex phonograph References: <53E9EF3F25EFAD4188962F0F79010DEC0185FE46@EMGMB5.ad.medctr.ucla.edu> Message-ID: If anyone here can help this gentleman, please email him directly. Thanks, Loran Begin forwarded message: > From: "Yang, Otto" > Date: June 11, 2009 12:09:51 PM PDT > To: "loran@oldcrank.com" > Subject: Duplex phonograph > > Hello, > > I am somewhat a novice about phonographs (I have a few open horn > Victors and Edison cylinder players). I recently acquired a Duplex, > unfortunately missing the reproducer/support arm/horns. I saw your > instruction manual (thanks!) on your web site. I assume that > reproduction parts are not available for a machine this rare, but I > thought I would ask anyway whether you know of a source for original > or reproduction parts. If not, any good detailed pictures of these > parts so that I may someday think about crafting my own facsimiles? > > Thanks much, > > Otto > > > > > Otto Yang, M.D. > > Division of Infectious Diseases, Department of Medicine > Department of Microbiology, Immunology, and Molecular Genetics > UCLA AIDS Institute > > Geffen School of Medicine at UCLA From AGW1886 at aol.com Sat Jun 13 13:39:35 2009 From: AGW1886 at aol.com (AGW1886@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 13 13:44:57 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book Message-ID: Hello Friends, I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of Country Music." If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. Please contact me off-list Sincerely. Rick A. Jorgensen GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION http://www.geaaonline.org UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html ************** Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 13 15:40:39 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 13 15:52:41 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book Message-ID: <410-220096613224039578@earthlink.net> Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably still has some new books on hand. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > Hello Friends, > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of > Country Music." > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. > Please contact me off-list > > > Sincerely. > Rick A. Jorgensen > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > http://www.geaaonline.org > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html > > > > ************** > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From smstitt at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 16:38:47 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Sat Jun 13 16:38:55 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book In-Reply-To: <410-220096613224039578@earthlink.net> References: <410-220096613224039578@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0906131638i63ca4390p4f2f4e8a5f546ae0@mail.gmail.com> Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy but the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with Jack. Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN #0-9772735-0-4 Oldcranky, Mike Good luck! Hi Steve. On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably > still has some new books on hand. > > > > [Original Message] > > From: > > To: > > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM > > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > > > Hello Friends, > > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of > > Country Music." > > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. > > Please contact me off-list > > > > > > Sincerely. > > Rick A. Jorgensen > > > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > > http://www.geaaonline.org > > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES > > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html > > > > > > > > ************** > > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > > fingertips. > > > ( > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 > 04) > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From edisone1 at verizon.net Sat Jun 13 16:59:11 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sat Jun 13 18:00:01 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book References: <410-220096613224039578@earthlink.net> <7e8e90ff0906131638i63ca4390p4f2f4e8a5f546ae0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <325A2605D058484D9985C8B2779B3DC7@moms> Jack posts regularly on the 78-L list ... as recently as this week, in fact. vdalhart@earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stitt" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his > email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy > but > the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with > Jack. > Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He > worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN > #0-9772735-0-4 > Oldcranky, Mike > Good luck! > Hi Steve. > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston > wrote: > >> Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably >> still has some new books on hand. >> >> >> > [Original Message] >> > From: >> > To: >> > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM >> > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book >> > >> > Hello Friends, >> > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of >> > Country Music." >> > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. >> > Please contact me off-list >> > >> > >> > Sincerely. >> > Rick A. Jorgensen >> > >> > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION >> > http://www.geaaonline.org >> > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES >> > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html From rich-mail at octoxol.com Sat Jun 13 18:31:38 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sat Jun 13 18:38:26 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book In-Reply-To: <7e8e90ff0906131638i63ca4390p4f2f4e8a5f546ae0@mail.gmail.com> References: <410-220096613224039578@earthlink.net> <7e8e90ff0906131638i63ca4390p4f2f4e8a5f546ae0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A3452FA.4020403@octoxol.com> 225.00 is a bit stiff, I would say. Mike Stitt wrote: > Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his > email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy but > the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with Jack. > Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He > worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN #0-9772735-0-4 > Oldcranky, Mike > Good luck! > Hi Steve. > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > >> Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably >> still has some new books on hand. >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: >>> To: >>> Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book >>> >>> Hello Friends, >>> I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of >>> Country Music." >>> If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. >>> Please contact me off-list >>> >>> >>> Sincerely. >>> Rick A. Jorgensen >>> >>> GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION >>> http://www.geaaonline.org >>> UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES >>> http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html >>> >>> >>> >>> ************** >>> Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your >>> fingertips. >>> >> ( >> http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 >> 04) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 13 19:52:33 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 13 19:52:49 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book Message-ID: <410-22009601425233644@earthlink.net> > [Original Message] > From: Mike Stitt > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/13/2009 7:39:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his > email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy but > the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with Jack. > Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He > worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN #0-9772735-0-4 > Oldcranky, Mike > Good luck! > Hi Steve. > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably > > still has some new books on hand. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: > > > To: > > > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM > > > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > > > > > Hello Friends, > > > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of > > > Country Music." > > > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. > > > Please contact me off-list > > > > > > > > > Sincerely. > > > Rick A. Jorgensen > > > > > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > > > http://www.geaaonline.org > > > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES > > > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > > > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > > > fingertips. > > > > > ( > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 > > 04) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 13 20:05:35 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 13 20:05:42 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book Message-ID: <410-2200960143535253@earthlink.net> Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > [Original Message] > From: Mike Stitt > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/13/2009 7:39:03 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his > email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy but > the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with Jack. > Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He > worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN #0-9772735-0-4 > Oldcranky, Mike > Good luck! > Hi Steve. > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He probably > > still has some new books on hand. > > > > > > > [Original Message] > > > From: > > > To: > > > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM > > > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > > > > > Hello Friends, > > > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star of > > > Country Music." > > > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. > > > Please contact me off-list > > > > > > > > > Sincerely. > > > Rick A. Jorgensen > > > > > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > > > http://www.geaaonline.org > > > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES > > > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html > > > > > > > > > > > > ************** > > > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > > > fingertips. > > > > > ( > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 > > 04) > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Phono-L mailing list > > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Kuglarb at wmconnect.com Sat Jun 13 20:08:21 2009 From: Kuglarb at wmconnect.com (Kuglarb@wmconnect.com) Date: Sat Jun 13 20:08:03 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Will Rogers On Victor / Victor VI? Message-ID: Hi friends. Hope all are well and have spent some time enjoying the marvelous invention of sound reproduction in some way today. Hey, I have a question that I am sure someone in this group knows the answer. How many records did Will Rogers produce on Victor, and what were the titles? I just picked up an absolutely gorgeous pristine copy of Timely Topics / A New Slant on War yesterday and want to find any of the remaining records to complete the series. I think they were all on the purple Victor label. I was amazed at watching a Leave it to Beaver episode last week. The show had a gorgeous Victor VI in the background of a lake house that the Cleaver family was visiting. It was odd seeing this type of thing as a prop at a lake house! I wonder what happened to that machine. After seeing the episode, it sparked my desire once again to own one of these. A Victor VI, not a lake house. lol... I am now in the market for a Victor VI machine. Anyone having one is asked to please let me know off line. I have leads on three located in New York and would like to consider one from someone in this group. I would really like have one close by so that I could pick it up and not have to risk extreme damage by the carriers. Thanks much for any help and happy weekend. Keep the speed limit hovering around 78...rpms that is! Brantley Williston, S.C. From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 13 20:24:25 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 13 20:24:33 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Will Rogers On Victor / Victor VI? Message-ID: <410-22009601432425800@earthlink.net> Two recordings were done and rejected. One (Matrix B-27459); "The US Senate And The Government" and 27460: ". Prohibition" Victor 45374: Will Rogers Talks To The Bankers and Will Rogers' First Political Speech. Victor 45369: Will Rogers Nominates Henry Ford For President, and Will Rogers Tells Traffic Chiefs How To Direct Traffic. A couple of his sides were issued on LP discs. I suspect that Victor "chickened out" on the first sides shown here. They didn't want to take on the Senate, and Prohibition was too hot an issue, especially among the churchgoers. The Traffic Chiefs and the Henry Ford disc must have sold a lot of copies. I have one that was in my family's old Victrola. He recorded on the blue Victor label. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/13/2009 11:08:23 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Will Rogers On Victor / Victor VI? > > Hi friends. Hope all are well and have spent some time enjoying the > marvelous invention of sound reproduction in some way today. Hey, I have a > question that I am sure someone in this group knows the answer. How many records > did Will Rogers produce on Victor, and what were the titles? I just picked > up an absolutely gorgeous pristine copy of Timely Topics / A New Slant on > War yesterday and want to find any of the remaining records to complete the > series. I think they were all on the purple Victor label. > > I was amazed at watching a Leave it to Beaver episode last week. The show > had a gorgeous Victor VI in the background of a lake house that the Cleaver > family was visiting. It was odd seeing this type of thing as a prop at a > lake house! I wonder what happened to that machine. After seeing the > episode, it sparked my desire once again to own one of these. A Victor VI, not a > lake house. lol... > > I am now in the market for a Victor VI machine. Anyone having one is asked > to please let me know off line. I have leads on three located in New York > and would like to consider one from someone in this group. I would really > like have one close by so that I could pick it up and not have to risk > extreme damage by the carriers. > > Thanks much for any help and happy weekend. Keep the speed limit hovering > around 78...rpms that is! > > Brantley > Williston, S.C. > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 11:02:39 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Sun Jun 14 11:02:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book References: <410-2200960143535253@earthlink.net> Message-ID: What is meant by the statement that "MAPS has pretty much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore"?. I thought the society was alive and well. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Douglas Houston" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:05 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has > pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Mike Stitt >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Date: 6/13/2009 7:39:03 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book >> >> Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his >> email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy > but >> the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with > Jack. >> Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He >> worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN > #0-9772735-0-4 >> Oldcranky, Mike >> Good luck! >> Hi Steve. >> >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston > wrote: >> >> > Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He > probably >> > still has some new books on hand. >> > >> > >> > > [Original Message] >> > > From: >> > > To: >> > > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM >> > > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book >> > > >> > > Hello Friends, >> > > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star >> > > of >> > > Country Music." >> > > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. >> > > Please contact me off-list >> > > >> > > >> > > Sincerely. >> > > Rick A. Jorgensen >> > > >> > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION >> > > http://www.geaaonline.org >> > > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES >> > > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ************** >> > > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your >> > > fingertips. >> > > >> > ( >> > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 >> > 04) >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Phono-L mailing list >> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Sun Jun 14 11:09:19 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Sun Jun 14 11:09:11 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union Show report Message-ID: Anyone care to report on the Union Show? In particular, how were attendance, dealers, quantity and quality of machines and records, rare phonos for sale, prices, and comparison to previous shows, etc. Ray From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 14 19:20:51 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sun Jun 14 19:21:03 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book Message-ID: <410-22009611522051500@earthlink.net> The society has had almost no meetings this year, or last year, either. I mean locally.In the past, there was a get-together at someone's place, where we could see their things, have refreshments, and usually, a program of some sort. The club hasn't had a modicum of leadership for probably 5 years. No meetings, the only events are now, Union, San Filippo's, events in distant places......there's nothing going on ion Michigan. Phonovention will never be in Michigan again, though that doesn't constitute decay. The ones who should care about it, don't. If you call lunch at a sports bar, in a skull-crushing sound level, a "meeting", that's what we've had a couple of this year. Maybe you have a different take on it, but those are my thoughts. > [Original Message] > From: Raymond Wilenzick > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/14/2009 2:02:42 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > What is meant by the statement that "MAPS has pretty much fallen apart, and > there are rarely any meetings anymore"?. I thought the society was alive > and well. > > Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Douglas Houston" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 11:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > > > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has > > pretty > > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Mike Stitt > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Date: 6/13/2009 7:39:03 PM > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > >> > >> Mainspring Press no longer lists Jack Palmer's book. I used to have his > >> email as I was fortunate enough to read his draft copy. ABE list a copy > > but > >> the price makes no sense. Bob Olson may know how to get in touch with > > Jack. > >> Jack seemed to just drop out of sight after the book was published. He > >> worked long and hard and for many years on his book.The ISBN > > #0-9772735-0-4 > >> Oldcranky, Mike > >> Good luck! > >> Hi Steve. > >> > >> On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 3:40 PM, Douglas Houston > > wrote: > >> > >> > Contact the author, (Mental block) in Battle Creek, Micigan. He > > probably > >> > still has some new books on hand. > >> > > >> > > >> > > [Original Message] > >> > > From: > >> > > To: > >> > > Date: 6/13/2009 4:45:21 PM > >> > > Subject: [Phono-L] Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book > >> > > > >> > > Hello Friends, > >> > > I am looking for the book/paperback, "Vernon Dalhart: First Star > >> > > of > >> > > Country Music." > >> > > If anyone has one to spare, I will pay very well for a copy. > >> > > Please contact me off-list > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Sincerely. > >> > > Rick A. Jorgensen > >> > > > >> > > GOLDEN ERA AUTOMOBILE ASSOCIATION > >> > > http://www.geaaonline.org > >> > > UNCLE JOSH'S PUN'KIN CENTRE STORIES > >> > > http://www.montanaphonograph.com/unclejosh.html > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ************** > >> > > Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > >> > > fingertips. > >> > > > >> > ( > >> > > > http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 > >> > 04) > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Phono-L mailing list > >> > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Phono-L mailing list > >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From mschester at email.msn.com Thu Jun 18 09:34:31 2009 From: mschester at email.msn.com (Mark S. Chester) Date: Thu Jun 18 09:39:43 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction in Maine In-Reply-To: <4A3A2A26.5030501@blueyonder.co.uk> Message-ID: I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that they have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog description follows: "ORIGINAL VICTOR GRAMOPHONE "NIPPER" OIL ON CANVAS. This painting by the Bristol, UK artist Francis Barraud used the Jack Russell terrier named Nipper (fond of "nipping" at the heels of visitors) that he had inherited upon his brother Mark's death as his model. Barraud tried selling his painting to Edison-Bell, but they didn't bite. However, their competitors the Gramophone and Victor companies were taken by the image, renaming it "His Master's Voice" and it became one of the most recognized images in American advertising. The Gramophone and Victor companies commissioned Barraud to paint 24 copies of his 1899 original for distribution to their branch offices. This painting is signed in the lower right corner with the artist's initials and the Roman numeral "VII", being the 7th he produced. SIZE: Overall: 34-1/2" w 24-1/2" h. PROVENANCE: From the Sherman Clay Company which was the west coast's largest music store from the mid teens to about 1940. They were the largest Victor Talking Machine retailer on the west coast and at that time were give the painting from E.R. Johnson who was this Victor Co. CEO. CONDITION: The canvas in very good to near excellent condition with only a small area of paint loss adjacent to the edge of the upper frame. Painting is in its original gilt frame with metal plaque which reads "His Master's Voice". 1-9253 (8,000-12,000) [sale: ATD June 09]" Of course, they omitted the details about Barraud painting over the Edison cylinder player with the trademark model Berliner Gramophone and that was what induced the G&T company to purchase it. It's lot #1306 of the upcoming June 26 Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction. Go to http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_catalog_275_search.asp?search=lots and enter lot 1306 in the "search lot number" box and you'll find the listing. The home page for this auction is at http://jamesdjulia.com/atd.asp; scroll down until you come to: "Auctions: June 2009 - Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction" where there is a description and a link to the catalog. Mark S. Chester Phoenixville, PA www.whalom.com www.wurlitzer165.com www.racc.edu www.nca-usa.org www.gsschesco.org www.newhollandband.org From boruffb at flash.net Thu Jun 18 10:27:05 2009 From: boruffb at flash.net (Bill Boruff) Date: Thu Jun 18 10:33:54 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] OPERA CASE Message-ID: Help! I am looking for the case for a mahogany OPERA with or without the lid. I would appreciate any help you can give in locating an original one or a reproduction if anyone has ever reproduced it. You can contact me off line at boruffb@flash.net Regards, Bill Boruff From RKolba0211 at aol.com Thu Jun 18 13:39:57 2009 From: RKolba0211 at aol.com (RKolba0211@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 18 13:45:23 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Vocarium Question Message-ID: I have several Harvard Vocarium and National Vocarium 12' records. They provide a real trip into the past. Does anyone know where I could obtain a catalogue of either collection? Thanks. I can be contacted at rkolba0211@aol.com **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Thu Jun 18 14:02:22 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 18 14:13:16 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] OPERA CASE Message-ID: hi all at one time don gefl made some opera lids In a message dated 6/18/2009 2:00:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, boruffb@flash.net writes: Help! I am looking for the case for a mahogany OPERA with or without the lid. I would appreciate any help you can give in locating an original one or a reproduction if anyone has ever reproduced it. You can contact me off line at boruffb@flash.net Regards, Bill Boruff _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************Dell Days of Deals! June 15-24 - A New Deal Everyday! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222677718x1201465083/aol?redir=http:%2F%2F ad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215692163%3B38015526%3Be) From nipper at dataex.com Thu Jun 18 14:47:53 2009 From: nipper at dataex.com (Robin Rolfs) Date: Thu Jun 18 14:48:04 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine References: Message-ID: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> If you check out the photo of an original on page 2-1 of our Nipper Collectibles book, and compare it to the auction photo, you will immediately see that it is a poor replica. Rob Visit us at: www.audioantique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Chester" To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l@klickitat.78online.com>; ; "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine >I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that >they > have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog > description follows: > > "ORIGINAL VICTOR GRAMOPHONE "NIPPER" OIL ON CANVAS. This painting by the > Bristol, UK artist Francis Barraud used the Jack Russell terrier named > Nipper (fond of "nipping" at the heels of visitors) that he had inherited > upon his brother Mark's death as his model. Barraud tried selling his > painting to Edison-Bell, but they didn't bite. However, their competitors > the Gramophone and Victor companies were taken by the image, renaming it > "His Master's Voice" and it became one of the most recognized images in > American advertising. The Gramophone and Victor companies commissioned > Barraud to paint 24 copies of his 1899 original for distribution to their > branch offices. This painting is signed in the lower right corner with the > artist's initials and the Roman numeral "VII", being the 7th he produced. > SIZE: Overall: 34-1/2" w 24-1/2" h. PROVENANCE: From the Sherman Clay > Company which was the west coast's largest music store from the mid teens > to > about 1940. They were the largest Victor Talking Machine retailer on the > west coast and at that time were give the painting from E.R. Johnson who > was > this Victor Co. CEO. CONDITION: The canvas in very good to near excellent > condition with only a small area of paint loss adjacent to the edge of the > upper frame. Painting is in its original gilt frame with metal plaque > which > reads "His Master's Voice". 1-9253 (8,000-12,000) [sale: ATD June 09]" > > Of course, they omitted the details about Barraud painting over the Edison > cylinder player with the trademark model Berliner Gramophone and that was > what induced the G&T company to purchase it. > > It's lot #1306 of the upcoming June 26 Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction. > > Go to > http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_catalog_275_search.asp?search=lots > and enter lot 1306 in the "search lot number" box and you'll find the > listing. > > The home page for this auction is at > http://jamesdjulia.com/atd.asp; scroll down until you come to: > > "Auctions: > June 2009 - Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction" > > where there is a description and a link to the catalog. > > Mark S. Chester > Phoenixville, PA > www.whalom.com > www.wurlitzer165.com > www.racc.edu > www.nca-usa.org > www.gsschesco.org > www.newhollandband.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From mschester at email.msn.com Thu Jun 18 15:31:29 2009 From: mschester at email.msn.com (Mark S. Chester) Date: Thu Jun 18 15:31:36 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine In-Reply-To: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> Message-ID: For whatever reason, I did not receive my own message, but I did receive this response, so now I know the message got through and will stop puzzling over that, so double thanks for the response! I now see that I can enlarge the photo and the word "Victor" is visible on the side of the gramophone, which seems inappropriate, as Barraud probably would not have been doing them for the VTMCo anyway. Well - as with all items in the price range this is expected to fetch - Buyer beware! It's an interesting story anyway... Mark -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robin Rolfs Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:48 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine If you check out the photo of an original on page 2-1 of our Nipper Collectibles book, and compare it to the auction photo, you will immediately see that it is a poor replica. Rob Visit us at: www.audioantique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Chester" To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l@klickitat.78online.com>; ; "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine >I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that >they > have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog > description follows: From dan at old-phonographs.com Thu Jun 18 15:57:12 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Thu Jun 18 15:57:21 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine In-Reply-To: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> References: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> Message-ID: I was pretty sure that was the case. Sorry to have bothered you with it. On Thu, Jun 18, 2009 at 2:47 PM, Robin Rolfs wrote: > If you check out the photo of an original on page 2-1 of our Nipper > Collectibles book, and compare it to the auction photo, you will immediately > see that it is a poor replica. > > Rob > > Visit us at: > www.audioantique.com > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Chester" < > mschester@email.msn.com> > To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l@klickitat.78online.com>; < > phonolist@yahoogroups.com>; "'Antique Phonograph List'" < > phono-l@oldcrank.org> > Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:34 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction > inMaine > > > I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that >> they >> have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog >> description follows: >> >> "ORIGINAL VICTOR GRAMOPHONE "NIPPER" OIL ON CANVAS. This painting by the >> Bristol, UK artist Francis Barraud used the Jack Russell terrier named >> Nipper (fond of "nipping" at the heels of visitors) that he had inherited >> upon his brother Mark's death as his model. Barraud tried selling his >> painting to Edison-Bell, but they didn't bite. However, their competitors >> the Gramophone and Victor companies were taken by the image, renaming it >> "His Master's Voice" and it became one of the most recognized images in >> American advertising. The Gramophone and Victor companies commissioned >> Barraud to paint 24 copies of his 1899 original for distribution to their >> branch offices. This painting is signed in the lower right corner with the >> artist's initials and the Roman numeral "VII", being the 7th he produced. >> SIZE: Overall: 34-1/2" w 24-1/2" h. PROVENANCE: From the Sherman Clay >> Company which was the west coast's largest music store from the mid teens >> to >> about 1940. They were the largest Victor Talking Machine retailer on the >> west coast and at that time were give the painting from E.R. Johnson who >> was >> this Victor Co. CEO. CONDITION: The canvas in very good to near excellent >> condition with only a small area of paint loss adjacent to the edge of the >> upper frame. Painting is in its original gilt frame with metal plaque >> which >> reads "His Master's Voice". 1-9253 (8,000-12,000) [sale: ATD June 09]" >> >> Of course, they omitted the details about Barraud painting over the Edison >> cylinder player with the trademark model Berliner Gramophone and that was >> what induced the G&T company to purchase it. >> >> It's lot #1306 of the upcoming June 26 Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction. >> >> Go to >> http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_catalog_275_search.asp?search=lots >> and enter lot 1306 in the "search lot number" box and you'll find the >> listing. >> >> The home page for this auction is at >> http://jamesdjulia.com/atd.asp; scroll down until you come to: >> >> "Auctions: >> June 2009 - Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction" >> >> where there is a description and a link to the catalog. >> >> Mark S. Chester >> Phoenixville, PA >> www.whalom.com >> www.wurlitzer165.com >> www.racc.edu >> www.nca-usa.org >> www.gsschesco.org >> www.newhollandband.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Jun 18 18:23:37 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm@comcast.net) Date: Thu Jun 18 18:23:42 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine In-Reply-To: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> Message-ID: <48721719.4424801245374617272.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> So it is not an original Oil Commissioned to be done by Barraud himself, but a poor replica obviously with Barraud's signature forged by some imposter? Someone should tip the auctioner off. So he can pull the item. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Rolfs" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:47:53 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine If you check out the photo of an original on page 2-1 of our Nipper Collectibles book, and compare it to the auction photo, you will immediately see that it is a poor replica. Rob Visit us at: www.audioantique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Chester" To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l@klickitat.78online.com>; ; "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine >I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that >they > have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog > description follows: > > "ORIGINAL VICTOR GRAMOPHONE "NIPPER" OIL ON CANVAS. This painting by the > Bristol, UK artist Francis Barraud used the Jack Russell terrier named > Nipper (fond of "nipping" at the heels of visitors) that he had inherited > upon his brother Mark's death as his model. Barraud tried selling his > painting to Edison-Bell, but they didn't bite. However, their competitors > the Gramophone and Victor companies were taken by the image, renaming it > "His Master's Voice" and it became one of the most recognized images in > American advertising. The Gramophone and Victor companies commissioned > Barraud to paint 24 copies of his 1899 original for distribution to their > branch offices. This painting is signed in the lower right corner with the > artist's initials and the Roman numeral "VII", being the 7th he produced. > SIZE: Overall: 34-1/2" w 24-1/2" h. PROVENANCE: From the Sherman Clay > Company which was the west coast's largest music store from the mid teens > to > about 1940. They were the largest Victor Talking Machine retailer on the > west coast and at that time were give the painting from E.R. Johnson who > was > this Victor Co. CEO. CONDITION: The canvas in very good to near excellent > condition with only a small area of paint loss adjacent to the edge of the > upper frame. Painting is in its original gilt frame with metal plaque > which > reads "His Master's Voice". 1-9253 (8,000-12,000) [sale: ATD June 09]" > > Of course, they omitted the details about Barraud painting over the Edison > cylinder player with the trademark model Berliner Gramophone and that was > what induced the G&T company to purchase it. > > It's lot #1306 of the upcoming June 26 Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction. > > Go to > http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/div_catalog_275_search.asp?search=lots > and enter lot 1306 in the "search lot number" box and you'll find the > listing. > > The home page for this auction is at > http://jamesdjulia.com/atd.asp; scroll down until you come to: > > "Auctions: > June 2009 - Advertising, Toy & Doll Auction" > > where there is a description and a link to the catalog. > > Mark S. Chester > Phoenixville, PA > www.whalom.com > www.wurlitzer165.com > www.racc.edu > www.nca-usa.org > www.gsschesco.org > www.newhollandband.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Thu Jun 18 19:03:22 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Thu Jun 18 19:04:15 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine In-Reply-To: References: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> Message-ID: <4a3af217.1aba720a.5c87.5d8e@mx.google.com> If Barraurd was commissioned to paint several reproductions, might they not have each been rendered differently? The large copy that was put out on the market a few years back had Victor painted on the side, was this one of his works? Has anyone been able to study the artists signature close enough? Just playing devil's advocate. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Mark S. Chester Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 3:31 PM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine For whatever reason, I did not receive my own message, but I did receive this response, so now I know the message got through and will stop puzzling over that, so double thanks for the response! I now see that I can enlarge the photo and the word "Victor" is visible on the side of the gramophone, which seems inappropriate, as Barraud probably would not have been doing them for the VTMCo anyway. Well - as with all items in the price range this is expected to fetch - Buyer beware! It's an interesting story anyway... Mark -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Robin Rolfs Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 5:48 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine If you check out the photo of an original on page 2-1 of our Nipper Collectibles book, and compare it to the auction photo, you will immediately see that it is a poor replica. Rob Visit us at: www.audioantique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark S. Chester" To: "'78-L Mail List'" <78-l@klickitat.78online.com>; ; "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Thursday, June 18, 2009 11:34 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auction inMaine >I saw in an auction flyer from James D. Julia in Fairfield, Maine, that >they > have an oil-on-canvas Nipper painted by Barraud himself. The catalog > description follows: _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Fri Jun 19 12:13:40 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 19 12:18:57 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk Message-ID: hi all i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were in a bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical condition so lets all pray she will survive they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not sure where the accident occurred my condolences to their family rob **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) From glastris at comcast.net Fri Jun 19 12:35:22 2009 From: glastris at comcast.net (George Glastris) Date: Fri Jun 19 12:43:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <2F12F8B720164D72A0A6943F04B59C57@GLASTRISPC> They were in Southwestern Iowa when the accident occurred. Elise is in an Omaha hospital with a severely broken arm. Marty died at the scene. ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:13 PM Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk > hi all > i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know > the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were in a > bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical > condition so lets all pray she will survive > they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not sure > where the accident occurred > my condolences to their family > rob > > **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. > net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From 66pony at cox.net Fri Jun 19 12:46:39 2009 From: 66pony at cox.net (Eric Boyles) Date: Fri Jun 19 13:12:42 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk In-Reply-To: <2F12F8B720164D72A0A6943F04B59C57@GLASTRISPC> References: <2F12F8B720164D72A0A6943F04B59C57@GLASTRISPC> Message-ID: <4A3BEB1F.3060101@cox.net> Here is a local paper article........... http://www.carrollconews.com/story/1548879.html George Glastris wrote: > They were in Southwestern Iowa when the accident occurred. Elise is > in an Omaha hospital with a severely broken arm. Marty died at the > scene. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:13 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk > > >> hi all >> i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know >> the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were >> in a >> bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical >> condition so lets all pray she will survive >> they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not >> sure >> where the accident occurred >> my condolences to their family >> rob >> >> **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. >> >> net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Jun 19 13:21:51 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten@pacbell.net) Date: Fri Jun 19 13:21:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk Message-ID: <1056058201-1245442862-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1637500396-@bxe1231.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> That is so tragic, I can't get over it... ------Original Message------ From: Eric Boyles Sender: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk Sent: Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM Here is a local paper article........... http://www.carrollconews.com/story/1548879.html George Glastris wrote: > They were in Southwestern Iowa when the accident occurred. Elise is > in an Omaha hospital with a severely broken arm. Marty died at the > scene. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:13 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk > > >> hi all >> i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know >> the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were >> in a >> bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical >> condition so lets all pray she will survive >> they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not >> sure >> where the accident occurred >> my condolences to their family >> rob >> >> **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. >> >> net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Jun 19 16:53:27 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri Jun 19 16:53:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Original Francis Barraud "Nipper" painting at auctioninMaine In-Reply-To: References: <3F7818D455FD4559A6C9216803D24E09@owner094cc0223> Message-ID: Hello Mark, The only places I have see the word Victor on the side of the gramophone is my 1906 color ad for a Victor VI with a brass horn and my RCA copy of the trademark that is on metal and measures 11 by 16 inches. It appears to my that the word Victor was added for advertising purposes and the photo I have the link to and the one for sale are advertising reproductions. Even my large needle tins do not have the word. Here is a photo I have the link to: http://www.angelfire.com/nc3/talkingmachines/images/nippertm.jpg Here is a link to the one for sale: http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/catalog_detail_shots.asp?Details=9253&sale=275 In Petts' book none of the paintings I have seen have the word Victor on the side of the gramophone, not the original or the replica Barraud is shown painting in 1922. All the paintings in Petts' book show the crank to be much nearer to the end of the painting, another reason I believe the ones above to be advertising reproductions. According to the book Barraud made 24 replicas between 1913 and 1923 including one exact replica where the phonograph was painted in and out again. Here are the two in my book: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nipper Here he is painting a 1922 replica: http://my.athenet.net/~nipper/images/Barraud.jpg Any corrections are appreciated, Steve > > For whatever reason, I did not receive my own message, but I did receive > this response, so now I know the message got through and will stop puzzling > over that, so double thanks for the response! > > I now see that I can enlarge the photo and the word "Victor" is visible on > the side of the gramophone, which seems inappropriate, as Barraud probably > would not have been doing them for the VTMCo anyway. Well - as with all > items in the price range this is expected to fetch - Buyer beware! It's an > interesting story anyway... > > Mark > > > From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Fri Jun 19 17:01:16 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Fri Jun 19 17:01:23 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk Message-ID: <908096.41171.qm@web54303.mail.re2.yahoo.com> OMG, I am shocked. does anyone have an address to send get well and sympathy cards? I emailed him a short while ago. Harvey Kravitz --- On Fri, 6/19/09, john9ten@pacbell.net wrote: From: john9ten@pacbell.net Subject: Re: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk To: "Antique Phonograph List" Date: Friday, June 19, 2009, 1:21 PM That is so tragic, I can't get over it... ------Original Message------ From: Eric Boyles Sender: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] sad news about? Marty & Elise Roenigk Sent: Jun 19, 2009 12:46 PM Here is a local paper article........... http://www.carrollconews.com/story/1548879.html George Glastris wrote: > They were in Southwestern Iowa when the accident occurred.? Elise is > in an Omaha hospital with a severely broken arm.? Marty died at the > scene. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 2:13 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk > > >> hi all >> i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know >> the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were >> in a >> bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical >> condition so lets all pray she will survive >> they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not >> sure >> where the accident occurred >> my condolences? to their family >> rob >> >> **************Dell Inspiron 15: Now starting at $349 >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222435718x1201460505/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick. >> >> net%2Fclk%3B215748553%3B38126199%3Bs) >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -----Inline Attachment Follows----- _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From loran at oldcrank.com Fri Jun 19 18:02:31 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Fri Jun 19 18:02:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] sad news about Marty & Elise Roenigk In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <24C67494-11C0-4A62-B69B-1A949CCF7D4E@oldcrank.com> I am extremely saddened to hear this. They'll both be in my thoughts and prayers. Regards, Loran On Jun 19, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Zonophone2006@aol.com wrote: > hi all > i just got a phone call and it is sad to let everyone know > the donleys passed on news that marty and elise or mechantiques were > in a > bad auto accident and marty did not make it and elise is in critical > condition so lets all pray she will survive > they were in union from what i understand for the phono show but not > sure > where the accident occurred > my condolences to their family > rob From jnichol at fuse.net Fri Jun 19 18:44:36 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Fri Jun 19 18:44:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union Show report In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9D67C69B-AD2B-45B2-81C4-FC1AF1E348D1@fuse.net> Ray, no one else has replied yet, right? I didn't arrive early enough on Saturday to attend the show at Union, so I went on Sunday instead. Saturday night at Jasper Sanfilippo's was fantastic as usual. There were a lot of people at Jasper's, and someone said they thought it might be a record crowd. He had another one of his massive orchestrions finished this year (the one that last year was painted all white, with about 6 almost life-sized ladies). This year it was painted in proper colors, including lots of skin tones on the ladies. I went to the Union show on Sunday, and it seemed to have the usual dealers. The main room and back room were filled, and one dealer was outside in a tent. Jeff and Steve Oliphant brought Ray Phillips with them. Ray was demonstrating an Edison Kinetoscope reproduction, which he had made about 20 years ago. I think they said that 15 or so were made at that time. Apparently the Oliphants bought this particular repro recently from its former owner. They are also going to be handling the details for Ray of making another set of Kinetoscope repros, for approximately $15K, I think. Jeff said this is barely above Ray's cost of having them made. Ray demonstrated the machine, and I watched a Butterfly Dancer, I think he called it. He says the Library of Congress has the original Kinetoscope films, and since Edison/Dickson invented 35mm film (for the Kinetoscope), the L of C can make you copies on 35mm file for a nominal fee. You would then have to glue them into a loop. (See the Wikipedia article on Kinetoscope). The Oliphants had ANOTHER Edison School phono for sale this year, with original stand and repro cardboard boxes. (Last year I bought the Dave Heitz Edison School that the Oliphants were selling then. Mine has a repro stand and repro cardboard boxes that the Oliphants had made). I forgot to ask how much they wanted for the School this year. Charlie Hummel was selling an original tinfoil machine for $39,000. It is in very nice condition. It is a Ducretet, just like Rene's as pictured below, but without a flywheel: http://www.edisontinfoil.com/ducretet.htm Domenic DiBernardo was offering a stunningly beautiful Edison Opera with all metal parts gold plated. I believe it has a Model L reproducer (also gold plated). Words cannot do this machine justice. It is so shiny it is almost blinding. He said he was asking $15K. I took some pictures which I may get around to posting. Although this machine does not seem to be mentioned, Domenic's website is: http://www.mrgramophone.com Jim Nichol On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: > Anyone care to report on the Union Show? In particular, how were > attendance, dealers, quantity and quality of machines and records, > rare phonos for sale, prices, and comparison to previous shows, etc. > > Ray > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 19 19:04:02 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Fri Jun 19 19:10:34 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union Show report References: <9D67C69B-AD2B-45B2-81C4-FC1AF1E348D1@fuse.net> Message-ID: Thanks, Jim, for the report. Yes, no one else had bothered to reply. If someone would like to add to Jim's report, I am sure everyone would appreciate it. Did the tinfoil sell? Also, was the Opera ever sold originally with gold plated parts? Did it sell? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Nichol" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Union Show report > Ray, no one else has replied yet, right? > > I didn't arrive early enough on Saturday to attend the show at Union, so > I went on Sunday instead. Saturday night at Jasper Sanfilippo's was > fantastic as usual. There were a lot of people at Jasper's, and someone > said they thought it might be a record crowd. He had another one of his > massive orchestrions finished this year (the one that last year was > painted all white, with about 6 almost life-sized ladies). This year it > was painted in proper colors, including lots of skin tones on the ladies. > > I went to the Union show on Sunday, and it seemed to have the usual > dealers. The main room and back room were filled, and one dealer was > outside in a tent. Jeff and Steve Oliphant brought Ray Phillips with > them. Ray was demonstrating an Edison Kinetoscope reproduction, which he > had made about 20 years ago. I think they said that 15 or so were made at > that time. Apparently the Oliphants bought this particular repro > recently from its former owner. They are also going to be handling the > details for Ray of making another set of Kinetoscope repros, for > approximately $15K, I think. Jeff said this is barely above Ray's cost of > having them made. Ray demonstrated the machine, and I watched a Butterfly > Dancer, I think he called it. He says the Library of Congress has the > original Kinetoscope films, and since Edison/Dickson invented 35mm film > (for the Kinetoscope), the L of C can make you copies on 35mm file for a > nominal fee. You would then have to glue them into a loop. (See the > Wikipedia article on Kinetoscope). > > The Oliphants had ANOTHER Edison School phono for sale this year, with > original stand and repro cardboard boxes. (Last year I bought the Dave > Heitz Edison School that the Oliphants were selling then. Mine has a > repro stand and repro cardboard boxes that the Oliphants had made). I > forgot to ask how much they wanted for the School this year. > > Charlie Hummel was selling an original tinfoil machine for $39,000. It is > in very nice condition. It is a Ducretet, just like Rene's as pictured > below, but without a flywheel: > > http://www.edisontinfoil.com/ducretet.htm > > Domenic DiBernardo was offering a stunningly beautiful Edison Opera with > all metal parts gold plated. I believe it has a Model L reproducer (also > gold plated). Words cannot do this machine justice. It is so shiny it is > almost blinding. He said he was asking $15K. I took some pictures which > I may get around to posting. Although this machine does not seem to be > mentioned, Domenic's website is: > > http://www.mrgramophone.com > > Jim Nichol > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: > >> Anyone care to report on the Union Show? In particular, how were >> attendance, dealers, quantity and quality of machines and records, rare >> phonos for sale, prices, and comparison to previous shows, etc. >> >> Ray >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jnichol at fuse.net Fri Jun 19 20:24:33 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Fri Jun 19 20:24:40 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union Show report In-Reply-To: References: <9D67C69B-AD2B-45B2-81C4-FC1AF1E348D1@fuse.net> Message-ID: <961FD481-6F0B-4193-8113-59B53F536135@fuse.net> I left the show Sunday about 1 PM, and the School and gold Opera and tinfoil were not not sold at that time. Domenic said he though the Opera was offered in gold originally. But I could not find that option in my Frow book. Ray, you actually missed the Union show? I've only missed one since the Donleys started them in the 1970's. Jim On Jun 19, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: > Thanks, Jim, for the report. Yes, no one else had bothered to > reply. If someone would like to add to Jim's report, I am sure > everyone would appreciate it. > Did the tinfoil sell? Also, was the Opera ever sold originally with > gold plated parts? Did it sell? > > Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Nichol" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:44 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Union Show report > > >> Ray, no one else has replied yet, right? >> >> I didn't arrive early enough on Saturday to attend the show at >> Union, so I went on Sunday instead. Saturday night at Jasper >> Sanfilippo's was fantastic as usual. There were a lot of people at >> Jasper's, and someone said they thought it might be a record >> crowd. He had another one of his massive orchestrions finished >> this year (the one that last year was painted all white, with >> about 6 almost life-sized ladies). This year it was painted in >> proper colors, including lots of skin tones on the ladies. >> >> I went to the Union show on Sunday, and it seemed to have the usual >> dealers. The main room and back room were filled, and one dealer >> was outside in a tent. Jeff and Steve Oliphant brought Ray Phillips >> with them. Ray was demonstrating an Edison Kinetoscope >> reproduction, which he had made about 20 years ago. I think they >> said that 15 or so were made at that time. Apparently the >> Oliphants bought this particular repro recently from its former >> owner. They are also going to be handling the details for Ray of >> making another set of Kinetoscope repros, for approximately $15K, >> I think. Jeff said this is barely above Ray's cost of having them >> made. Ray demonstrated the machine, and I watched a Butterfly >> Dancer, I think he called it. He says the Library of Congress has >> the original Kinetoscope films, and since Edison/Dickson invented >> 35mm film (for the Kinetoscope), the L of C can make you copies on >> 35mm file for a nominal fee. You would then have to glue them >> into a loop. (See the Wikipedia article on Kinetoscope). >> >> The Oliphants had ANOTHER Edison School phono for sale this year, >> with original stand and repro cardboard boxes. (Last year I bought >> the Dave Heitz Edison School that the Oliphants were selling then. >> Mine has a repro stand and repro cardboard boxes that the Oliphants >> had made). I forgot to ask how much they wanted for the School this >> year. >> >> Charlie Hummel was selling an original tinfoil machine for $39,000. >> It is in very nice condition. It is a Ducretet, just like Rene's >> as pictured below, but without a flywheel: >> >> http://www.edisontinfoil.com/ducretet.htm >> >> Domenic DiBernardo was offering a stunningly beautiful Edison >> Opera with all metal parts gold plated. I believe it has a Model >> L reproducer (also gold plated). Words cannot do this machine >> justice. It is so shiny it is almost blinding. He said he was >> asking $15K. I took some pictures which I may get around to >> posting. Although this machine does not seem to be mentioned, >> Domenic's website is: >> >> http://www.mrgramophone.com >> >> Jim Nichol >> >> On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: >> >>> Anyone care to report on the Union Show? In particular, how were >>> attendance, dealers, quantity and quality of machines and >>> records, rare phonos for sale, prices, and comparison to previous >>> shows, etc. >>> >>> Ray >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Srsells1 at aol.com Sat Jun 20 07:13:06 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 20 07:12:50 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Vocarium Question Message-ID: In a message dated 6/18/2009 5:04:16 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, RKolba0211@aol.com writes: have several Harvard Vocarium and National Vocarium 12' records. They provide a real trip into the past. Does anyone know where I could obtain a catalogue of either collection? Thanks. I can be contacted at rkolba0211@aol.com I don't know there were enough for a catalog. My late friend Dave Goldenberg - a speech collector - showed me his collection of them (since auctioned off). They were reproductions of original historic speech recordings. Bob Vincent was the producer and owner. You can read more here: _Michigan State University Libraries - Vincent Voice Library_ (http://vvl.lib.msu.edu/about.cfm?action=vincentbio) Steve **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From Srsells1 at aol.com Sat Jun 20 07:33:48 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 20 07:42:50 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh041@earthlink.net writes: Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you involved at all in helping host a meeting? Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New England - not just in MI. Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for folks to get to. The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same ones each month ). With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks putting out ITG are not getting rich. So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it current.) Steve Ramm **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) From jeffryy at prevea.com Sat Jun 20 08:05:41 2009 From: jeffryy at prevea.com (Jeffry Young, D.O.) Date: Sat Jun 20 08:17:56 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union Show report In-Reply-To: References: <9D67C69B-AD2B-45B2-81C4-FC1AF1E348D1@fuse.net> Message-ID: <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA05A7@mercury.prevea.com> I am not much of a cylinder guy, so did not really look for them, but there was a wonderful Edison Concert, serial number #3(!!!) with a polyphone attatchment and two seamless 30 inch (maybe bigger) horns with the "S" shaped floor stand. The ask was $25,000. I know it sold, but not for how much. I believe it was going to Germany. Also, very nice early Victor-P3. This is the small case Victor-P with the Concert long throat reproducer. Very hard to find. There was a restored Victor-XX with the gold leaf corners, only 9 reported known examples. There was a burled walnut Columbia Grafanola floor model that was a one-off. A nice Zon-o-phone B traded hands early in the show. That's all I can remember right now. Where is Ken Brecke? He usually gives the post show report! Regards, Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Raymond Wilenzick Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:04 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Union Show report Thanks, Jim, for the report. Yes, no one else had bothered to reply. If someone would like to add to Jim's report, I am sure everyone would appreciate it. Did the tinfoil sell? Also, was the Opera ever sold originally with gold plated parts? Did it sell? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Nichol" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 9:44 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Union Show report > Ray, no one else has replied yet, right? > > I didn't arrive early enough on Saturday to attend the show at Union, so > I went on Sunday instead. Saturday night at Jasper Sanfilippo's was > fantastic as usual. There were a lot of people at Jasper's, and someone > said they thought it might be a record crowd. He had another one of his > massive orchestrions finished this year (the one that last year was > painted all white, with about 6 almost life-sized ladies). This year it > was painted in proper colors, including lots of skin tones on the ladies. > > I went to the Union show on Sunday, and it seemed to have the usual > dealers. The main room and back room were filled, and one dealer was > outside in a tent. Jeff and Steve Oliphant brought Ray Phillips with > them. Ray was demonstrating an Edison Kinetoscope reproduction, which he > had made about 20 years ago. I think they said that 15 or so were made at > that time. Apparently the Oliphants bought this particular repro > recently from its former owner. They are also going to be handling the > details for Ray of making another set of Kinetoscope repros, for > approximately $15K, I think. Jeff said this is barely above Ray's cost of > having them made. Ray demonstrated the machine, and I watched a Butterfly > Dancer, I think he called it. He says the Library of Congress has the > original Kinetoscope films, and since Edison/Dickson invented 35mm film > (for the Kinetoscope), the L of C can make you copies on 35mm file for a > nominal fee. You would then have to glue them into a loop. (See the > Wikipedia article on Kinetoscope). > > The Oliphants had ANOTHER Edison School phono for sale this year, with > original stand and repro cardboard boxes. (Last year I bought the Dave > Heitz Edison School that the Oliphants were selling then. Mine has a > repro stand and repro cardboard boxes that the Oliphants had made). I > forgot to ask how much they wanted for the School this year. > > Charlie Hummel was selling an original tinfoil machine for $39,000. It is > in very nice condition. It is a Ducretet, just like Rene's as pictured > below, but without a flywheel: > > http://www.edisontinfoil.com/ducretet.htm > > Domenic DiBernardo was offering a stunningly beautiful Edison Opera with > all metal parts gold plated. I believe it has a Model L reproducer (also > gold plated). Words cannot do this machine justice. It is so shiny it is > almost blinding. He said he was asking $15K. I took some pictures which > I may get around to posting. Although this machine does not seem to be > mentioned, Domenic's website is: > > http://www.mrgramophone.com > > Jim Nichol > > On Jun 14, 2009, at 2:09 PM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: > >> Anyone care to report on the Union Show? In particular, how were >> attendance, dealers, quantity and quality of machines and records, rare >> phonos for sale, prices, and comparison to previous shows, etc. >> >> Ray >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jnichol at fuse.net Sat Jun 20 09:02:57 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Sat Jun 20 09:03:04 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon Dalhart Book) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <16D75B97-4279-4F60-955B-B42DF217E935@fuse.net> I was thinking the same thing, Steve. Since most MAPS members don't live in Michigan, the lack meetings has little to do with the health or value of the club! It certainly has not "fallen apart". Jim Nichol On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:33 AM, Srsells1@aol.com wrote: > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, > only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron > Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns > for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster > who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm From Dad at TheMcCormicks.com Sat Jun 20 09:23:57 2009 From: Dad at TheMcCormicks.com (Tim McCormick) Date: Sat Jun 20 09:31:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - Phonovention In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20090620163135.528FA73B637@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Steve Ramm mentioned Phonovention, so I wanted to bring everyone up to date. Phonovention 2009 is being held on July 31st to August 1st at the National Military History Center, Home to the WWII Victory Museum, 5634 County Road 11A, Auburn, IN 46706 Visit www.Phonovention.com for all the details. Keynote speaker is Peter Dilg who will also record a brass quintet performing a new ragtime piece of music. Other speakers include John Hauger's Presentation of "The McKinley Assassination on Record", Bill Klinger's Presentation on "In the Trenches: Surveying the Groove" and Dr. Phil Stewart's Presentation: "The Quest: Record Collectors on a Mission". I hear there may also be another well known speaker to be announced letter. There are vendors at Phonovention that don't show up to Union, like George Vollema of Great Lakes Antique Phonograph. Hoosier Antique Phonograph Society (HAPS) is once again sponsoring Phonovention, and you would be hard pressed to find a happier or more helpful group of phonograph enthusiasts. Tim McCormick -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Srsells1@aol.com Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 10:34 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh041@earthlink.net writes: Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you involved at all in helping host a meeting? Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New England - not just in MI. Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for folks to get to. The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same ones each month ). With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks putting out ITG are not getting rich. So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it current.) Steve Ramm **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your fingertips. (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown000000 04) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 20 15:09:43 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 20 15:10:06 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) Message-ID: <410-2200966202294331@earthlink.net> Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/20/2009 10:43:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) > > In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, > they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove > each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you > involved at all in helping host a meeting? > > Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New > England - not just in MI. > > Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a > percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was > moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for > folks to get to. > > The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" > which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and > Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've > been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do > it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are > well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the > ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not > covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with > articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds > (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same > ones each month ). > > With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave > everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks > putting out ITG are not getting rich. > > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jeffryy at prevea.com Sat Jun 20 16:45:45 2009 From: jeffryy at prevea.com (Jeffry Young, D.O.) Date: Sat Jun 20 16:45:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) In-Reply-To: <410-2200966202294331@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200966202294331@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA05AA@mercury.prevea.com> Just a comment in passing!? My son Greg (12 and 1/2 years old) and I were on our way into Jaspers on Saturday night after a day at Union. Randy Doneley mentions on the way in that "you are the youngest collector at the show, and we need to do something to change that! It is good that you are bringing your son!" He was talking about ME, not GREG! I will be 50 in September. If Randy's comment is even close to being prophetic, as collectors we are in big trouble, because there will be no one left who is interested in our collections. There is sort of an analogy with pre-war and post war Lionel trains. Look at the interest and the values. It speaks for itself. I have been a member of MAPS since 1992. I am also a member of the Wisconsin Chapter, the very first sub-chapter of the original group. The monthly newsletter is great. Phil an Eileen do an incredible job. Thank you to those who contribute articles every single month! If it were easy, they would have had someone step up to the plate two years ago when they said they were getting tired. Does any one want this job? Hello-o-o-o-o? (Can you hear the echo?) It is a hell of a lot of work with few thank you's and far to many complaints. But, do we need to think beyond "dead tree media?" Do we need a more interactive web site? The one we have is maintained voluntarily. THANK YOU!!! Do we need a phono BLOG on the site. Do we need different areas like jass and blues, R&B, spirituals, Cajun, country? (If all this is there, and I have not noticed, I apologize, it has been awhile since I have been to the site and don't mean to under appreciate anyone.) How do you attract the i-tunes crowd to the ORIGINAL stuff, not just what they can download. Maybe the desire to own the ORIGINALS is just not there in our "knock-off" youth? If we don't get the kids involved by using TODAY'S technology, we will not be able to get them to appreciate the technology of the past! ALL IDEAS WELCOME! Let's brain storm. Anyway, I am rambling. The Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS used to run the phonograph competition when the event was held in Lansing. I understand there is no longer a competition. It has been a long time since I have been to Phonovention, but I am going to Phonovention this year! Thank you Indiana Chapter! Even if you do not care about the old music, the Auburn/Cord/Duisenberg museum is GREAT! Thanks for listening! Regards, Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:10 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/20/2009 10:43:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) > > In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, > they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove > each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you > involved at all in helping host a meeting? > > Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New > England - not just in MI. > > Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a > percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was > moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for > folks to get to. > > The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" > which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and > Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've > been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do > it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are > well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the > ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not > covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with > articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds > (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same > ones each month ). > > With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave > everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks > putting out ITG are not getting rich. > > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00 000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rvuill at comcast.net Sun Jun 21 08:33:51 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Sun Jun 21 08:33:58 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear Message-ID: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with sand paper. To try to build up any areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this technique or any other technique that you think will solve the problem. Thanks From rich-mail at octoxol.com Sun Jun 21 09:32:36 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sun Jun 21 09:39:20 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear In-Reply-To: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed out the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the gear not so. Bob wrote: > I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with sand paper. To try to build up an y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this technique or any other technique that you think will solve the problem. Thanks > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From rvuill at comcast.net Sun Jun 21 09:57:45 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Sun Jun 21 09:57:51 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com> Message-ID: <81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> Hi Rich, The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off > and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the > felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed out > the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not > cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the > gear not so. > > Bob wrote: >> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but am >> having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it makes >> listening almost impossible. The records appear to be traveling at a >> consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations that are impossible >> to see but they surely affect the sound quality. The mainspring is >> plenty strong so that's not the problem and the reproducer sounds >> fantastic on other machines. The problem appears to be caused by >> excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the worm gear in the >> governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to build up the bad >> areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I think it will be >> very difficult to control and be irreversible if I do it wrong. I've >> been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of it and checking over >> for defects with a magnifier. If I can see areas in the gear thread that >> are raised I will smooth them out with sand paper. To try to build up an > y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane varnish. > As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating at a > consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth enough to > work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this technique or any > other technique that you think will solve the problem. Thanks >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 05:53:00 From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sun Jun 21 10:36:44 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 21 10:37:02 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) Message-ID: HELLO ALL i wonder if they did a web based maps periodical if that might be easier to get someone to do and less money i know a scott malawski is younger than you jeff but you do have a good point rob In a message dated 6/20/2009 7:46:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jeffryy@prevea.com writes: Just a comment in passing!? My son Greg (12 and 1/2 years old) and I were on our way into Jaspers on Saturday night after a day at Union. Randy Doneley mentions on the way in that "you are the youngest collector at the show, and we need to do something to change that! It is good that you are bringing your son!" He was talking about ME, not GREG! I will be 50 in September. If Randy's comment is even close to being prophetic, as collectors we are in big trouble, because there will be no one left who is interested in our collections. There is sort of an analogy with pre-war and post war Lionel trains. Look at the interest and the values. It speaks for itself. I have been a member of MAPS since 1992. I am also a member of the Wisconsin Chapter, the very first sub-chapter of the original group. The monthly newsletter is great. Phil an Eileen do an incredible job. Thank you to those who contribute articles every single month! If it were easy, they would have had someone step up to the plate two years ago when they said they were getting tired. Does any one want this job? Hello-o-o-o-o? (Can you hear the echo?) It is a hell of a lot of work with few thank you's and far to many complaints. But, do we need to think beyond "dead tree media?" Do we need a more interactive web site? The one we have is maintained voluntarily. THANK YOU!!! Do we need a phono BLOG on the site. Do we need different areas like jass and blues, R&B, spirituals, Cajun, country? (If all this is there, and I have not noticed, I apologize, it has been awhile since I have been to the site and don't mean to under appreciate anyone.) How do you attract the i-tunes crowd to the ORIGINAL stuff, not just what they can download. Maybe the desire to own the ORIGINALS is just not there in our "knock-off" youth? If we don't get the kids involved by using TODAY'S technology, we will not be able to get them to appreciate the technology of the past! ALL IDEAS WELCOME! Let's brain storm. Anyway, I am rambling. The Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS used to run the phonograph competition when the event was held in Lansing. I understand there is no longer a competition. It has been a long time since I have been to Phonovention, but I am going to Phonovention this year! Thank you Indiana Chapter! Even if you do not care about the old music, the Auburn/Cord/Duisenberg museum is GREAT! Thanks for listening! Regards, Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:10 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/20/2009 10:43:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) > > In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, > they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove > each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you > involved at all in helping host a meeting? > > Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New > England - not just in MI. > > Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a > percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was > moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for > folks to get to. > > The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" > which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and > Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've > been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do > it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are > well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the > ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not > covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with > articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds > (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same > ones each month ). > > With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave > everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks > putting out ITG are not getting rich. > > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00 000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323000x1201367220/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) From rich-mail at octoxol.com Sun Jun 21 12:19:55 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sun Jun 21 12:20:01 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear In-Reply-To: <81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com> <81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <4A3E87DB.3030709@octoxol.com> Try and change the felt without spreading the bent metal that holds it. Usually you can cut a piece of real wool felt a bit tapered and pull it into the clamp without bending them as they tend to break. Use real 100% wool felt or it will fail. Bob wrote: > Hi Rich, > The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change > that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you. > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > > >> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off >> and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the >> felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed out >> the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not >> cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the >> gear not so. >> >> Bob wrote: >>> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but >>> am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it >>> makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be >>> traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations >>> that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. >>> The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the >>> reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears >>> to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the >>> worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to >>> build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I >>> think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I >>> do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of >>> it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see >>> areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with >>> sand paper. To try to build up an >> y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane >> varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating >> at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth >> enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this >> technique or any other technique that you think will solve the >> problem. Thanks >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: > 06/21/09 05:53:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From lherault at bu.edu Sun Jun 21 12:00:29 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Sun Jun 21 13:01:12 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for theVernonDalhartBook) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <7932C1884908424193DD5831E2D11B70@ronlherault> Unfortunately, not everyone has a computer and is on the web. I know several older and a few younger people who do not and who do not wish too. Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I would imagine. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Zonophone2006@aol.com Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 1:37 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for theVernonDalhartBook) HELLO ALL i wonder if they did a web based maps periodical if that might be easier to get someone to do and less money i know a scott malawski is younger than you jeff but you do have a good point rob In a message dated 6/20/2009 7:46:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jeffryy@prevea.com writes: Just a comment in passing!? My son Greg (12 and 1/2 years old) and I were on our way into Jaspers on Saturday night after a day at Union. Randy Doneley mentions on the way in that "you are the youngest collector at the show, and we need to do something to change that! It is good that you are bringing your son!" He was talking about ME, not GREG! I will be 50 in September. If Randy's comment is even close to being prophetic, as collectors we are in big trouble, because there will be no one left who is interested in our collections. There is sort of an analogy with pre-war and post war Lionel trains. Look at the interest and the values. It speaks for itself. I have been a member of MAPS since 1992. I am also a member of the Wisconsin Chapter, the very first sub-chapter of the original group. The monthly newsletter is great. Phil an Eileen do an incredible job. Thank you to those who contribute articles every single month! If it were easy, they would have had someone step up to the plate two years ago when they said they were getting tired. Does any one want this job? Hello-o-o-o-o? (Can you hear the echo?) It is a hell of a lot of work with few thank you's and far to many complaints. But, do we need to think beyond "dead tree media?" Do we need a more interactive web site? The one we have is maintained voluntarily. THANK YOU!!! Do we need a phono BLOG on the site. Do we need different areas like jass and blues, R&B, spirituals, Cajun, country? (If all this is there, and I have not noticed, I apologize, it has been awhile since I have been to the site and don't mean to under appreciate anyone.) How do you attract the i-tunes crowd to the ORIGINAL stuff, not just what they can download. Maybe the desire to own the ORIGINALS is just not there in our "knock-off" youth? If we don't get the kids involved by using TODAY'S technology, we will not be able to get them to appreciate the technology of the past! ALL IDEAS WELCOME! Let's brain storm. Anyway, I am rambling. The Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS used to run the phonograph competition when the event was held in Lansing. I understand there is no longer a competition. It has been a long time since I have been to Phonovention, but I am going to Phonovention this year! Thank you Indiana Chapter! Even if you do not care about the old music, the Auburn/Cord/Duisenberg museum is GREAT! Thanks for listening! Regards, Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:10 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/20/2009 10:43:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) > > In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, > they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove > each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you > involved at all in helping host a meeting? > > Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New > England - not just in MI. > > Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a > percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was > moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for > folks to get to. > > The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" > which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and > Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've > been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do > it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are > well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the > ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not > covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with > articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds > (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same > ones each month ). > > With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave > everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks > putting out ITG are not getting rich. > > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00 000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221323000x1201367220/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd= JunestepsfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From appywander at hotmail.com Sun Jun 21 13:22:04 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Sun Jun 21 13:22:11 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear In-Reply-To: <4A3E87DB.3030709@octoxol.com> References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com> <81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E87DB.3030709@octoxol.com> Message-ID: This is a bit difficult to describe in words, but I have found that if one spreads the metal prongs apart in a parallel axis to the edge of the metal (like spreading open a 'C'), the metal will break easily. However, if one very slightly twists one of the prongs in one direction ('\') and the other prong the other direction ('\'), the channel will open up and the felt/leather will be easily replaceable. The just twist the clamps back into parallel alignment and they will again clamp the material. Twist, don't spread! John M > Date: Sun, 21 Jun 2009 14:19:55 -0500 > From: rich-mail@octoxol.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > > Try and change the felt without spreading the bent metal that holds it. > Usually you can cut a piece of real wool felt a bit tapered and pull > it into the clamp without bending them as they tend to break. Use real > 100% wool felt or it will fail. > > Bob wrote: > > Hi Rich, > > The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change > > that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you. > > Bob > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > > > > > >> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off > >> and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the > >> felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed out > >> the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not > >> cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the > >> gear not so. > >> > >> Bob wrote: > >>> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but > >>> am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it > >>> makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be > >>> traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations > >>> that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. > >>> The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the > >>> reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears > >>> to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the > >>> worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to > >>> build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I > >>> think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I > >>> do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of > >>> it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see > >>> areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with > >>> sand paper. To try to build up an > >> y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane > >> varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating > >> at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth > >> enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this > >> technique or any other technique that you think will solve the > >> problem. Thanks > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> > >>> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: > > 06/21/09 05:53:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From victrola at triton.net Sun Jun 21 17:49:06 2009 From: victrola at triton.net (George) Date: Sun Jun 21 17:49:22 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for theVernonDalhartBook) References: <410-2200966202294331@earthlink.net> <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA05AA@mercury.prevea.com> Message-ID: <03E8BCA3658248D29943858769EF6593@VALUEDCB7D4C82> Attendance had dropped off at Phonoventions in recent years as I'm sure, to some degree, at all shows. Many of us dealers had all but given up on Phonovention when the Hoosier Chapter picked up sponsoring the show in Auburn IN. This would seem like an ideal location, being much more centralized than Lansing. As a dealer I and many others agreed to stay on another year when this move was announced. Last years show was not terribly well attended, but the location was still great. It's held in a beautiful atrium type setting with access to the National Military History Center as part of your entry fee. This access is well worth it even if you did not attend the actual show. The Hoosier chapter has worked very hard to try and arrange a great show at a great location. I hope that many of the faces that we have not seen in a few years will again give Phonovention a try. You have nothing to lose! Thank you, Great Lakes Antique Phonographs George Vollema Newaygo MI 49337-8556 ----- Original Message ----- From: Jeffry Young, D.O. To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 7:45 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for theVernonDalhartBook) Just a comment in passing!? My son Greg (12 and 1/2 years old) and I were on our way into Jaspers on Saturday night after a day at Union. Randy Doneley mentions on the way in that "you are the youngest collector at the show, and we need to do something to change that! It is good that you are bringing your son!" He was talking about ME, not GREG! I will be 50 in September. If Randy's comment is even close to being prophetic, as collectors we are in big trouble, because there will be no one left who is interested in our collections. There is sort of an analogy with pre-war and post war Lionel trains. Look at the interest and the values. It speaks for itself. I have been a member of MAPS since 1992. I am also a member of the Wisconsin Chapter, the very first sub-chapter of the original group. The monthly newsletter is great. Phil an Eileen do an incredible job. Thank you to those who contribute articles every single month! If it were easy, they would have had someone step up to the plate two years ago when they said they were getting tired. Does any one want this job? Hello-o-o-o-o? (Can you hear the echo?) It is a hell of a lot of work with few thank you's and far to many complaints. But, do we need to think beyond "dead tree media?" Do we need a more interactive web site? The one we have is maintained voluntarily. THANK YOU!!! Do we need a phono BLOG on the site. Do we need different areas like jass and blues, R&B, spirituals, Cajun, country? (If all this is there, and I have not noticed, I apologize, it has been awhile since I have been to the site and don't mean to under appreciate anyone.) How do you attract the i-tunes crowd to the ORIGINAL stuff, not just what they can download. Maybe the desire to own the ORIGINALS is just not there in our "knock-off" youth? If we don't get the kids involved by using TODAY'S technology, we will not be able to get them to appreciate the technology of the past! ALL IDEAS WELCOME! Let's brain storm. Anyway, I am rambling. The Wisconsin Chapter of MAPS used to run the phonograph competition when the event was held in Lansing. I understand there is no longer a competition. It has been a long time since I have been to Phonovention, but I am going to Phonovention this year! Thank you Indiana Chapter! Even if you do not care about the old music, the Auburn/Cord/Duisenberg museum is GREAT! Thanks for listening! Regards, Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Douglas Houston Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2009 5:10 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the VernonDalhartBook) Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/20/2009 10:43:28 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for the Vernon DalhartBook) > > In a message dated 6/13/2009 11:05:58 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Something got caught in the machinery here. I must have been asleep when I > sent my last message. Fer Pete's sake, all you have to do is contact Phil > Stewart at: ITGMail@aol.com. Steve lives in Battle Creek and not far from > Jack. Jack has been at several get-togethers in the years since the book > was published, so he hadn't dropped out of sight back then. MAPS has pretty > much fallen apart, and there are rarely any meetings anymore. I haven't > seen Steve for quite a while, sadly. > > Steve? Steve who? (you never mention a Steve). As for MAPS meetings, > they seem to be happening monthly month as they are listed in In The Groove > each Month. (May meeting was at John Haugers). Are you in Michigan? Are you > involved at all in helping host a meeting? > > Also, MAPS has Chapters around the country - Oregon, Wisconsin and New > England - not just in MI. > > Actually, from what I know, the monthly meetings are small because only a > percentage of members live within driving distance. And the Phonovention was > moved because (as I understand it) they had a host and it was easier for > folks to get to. > > The backbone of MAPS is the wonderful monthly magazine "In The Groove" > which is lovingly put together by Phil and Eileen Stewart as Editors and > Publishers. It's a lot of work. I know because - for over 18 years (yeesh!) I've > been writing a monthly column for ITG (and have yet to miss an issue). I do > it for free and - believe me it IS a lot of work. The articles in ITG are > well written and cataloged in Tim Brooks' "Current Bibliography" in the > ARSC Journal. (I know for a fact that some of the things I write about are not > covered ANYWHERE else.) The Calif. APS magazine is a quarterly with > articles but no current news. ITG comes on time MONTHLY and has free classifieds > (though I wish folks would send in NEW ones instead of repeating the same > ones each month ). > > With postage rates going up they had to increase the dues (but gave > everyone a chance at "last year's prices). MAPS is a non-profit and the folks > putting out ITG are not getting rich. > > So, I'm not sure what the issue with monthly meetings is -(again, only a > small portion of members reside in MI) Anthony Sinclair, Ron Dethlefson and I > are still cranking out what we hope are useful articles and columns for > its readers. (And a tip of the hat to the MAPS website webmaster who keeps it > current.) > > Steve Ramm > > > > > **************Download the AOL Classifieds Toolbar for local deals at your > fingertips. > (http://toolbar.aol.com/aolclassifieds/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00 000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jnichol at fuse.net Sun Jun 21 18:27:26 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Sun Jun 21 18:27:31 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (was Looking for theVernonDalhartBook) In-Reply-To: <03E8BCA3658248D29943858769EF6593@VALUEDCB7D4C82> References: <410-2200966202294331@earthlink.net> <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA05AA@mercury.prevea.com> <03E8BCA3658248D29943858769EF6593@VALUEDCB7D4C82> Message-ID: I actually forgot to attend the Auburn show, since there weren't many reminders here or on Phonolist. And I live pretty close by. Jim Nichol On Jun 21, 2009, at 8:49 PM, George wrote: > Attendance had dropped off at Phonoventions in recent years as I'm > sure, to some degree, at all shows. Many of us dealers had all but > given up on Phonovention when the Hoosier Chapter picked up > sponsoring the show in Auburn IN. This would seem like an ideal > location, being much more centralized than Lansing. As a dealer I > and many others agreed to stay on another year when this move was > announced. > > Last years show was not terribly well attended, but the location was > still great. It's held in a beautiful atrium type setting with > access to the National Military History Center as part of your entry > fee. This access is well worth it even if you did not attend the > actual show. The Hoosier chapter has worked very hard to try and > arrange a great show at a great location. I hope that many of the > faces that we have not seen in a few years will again give > Phonovention a try. You have nothing to lose! > Thank you, > Great Lakes Antique Phonographs > George Vollema > Newaygo MI 49337-8556 From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Sun Jun 21 20:57:41 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Sun Jun 21 21:05:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer Message-ID: <4a3f013d.20038e0a.69e2.05ce@mx.google.com> I have a very strange tone arm and reproducer. The diaphragm appears to be made of cardboard. It?s stamped ?J.H. ELLIS Melodious Music-Master? and has a patent date of 1916-1919. Anybody out there know anything about this company? Thanks, Jay Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From Srsells1 at aol.com Sun Jun 21 21:19:40 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 21 21:16:31 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - Message-ID: In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:30:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh041@earthlink.net writes: Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? Asking. BTW, maybe it's a senior moment (and I don't get on Phono-L a lot) but I can't remember who you are by name. (Sorry but you haven't signed your last postings and your email doesn't give me a clue. Did I miss it?) I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My guess is that MAPS is based in MI but has regional chapters. The meeting in I are really the regional meetings. We don't have a regional group here - and I don't think we will either. I did come to one Phonovention and made a trip of it but I have other alliances for my travel time and I choose to go to ARSC's Conference every year - for the last 20 years. I'm also their volunteer Treasurer (8th term). Anthony Sinclair in Australia and Rond D in CA aren't coming to meetings in MI but they, like me, sure contribute a lot of time to input on ITG. From the emails I get thanking me, I guess folks appreciate my efforts as well. MAPS is more than monthly meeting in MI, as I said before. At least I think that's what those members outside MI (the majority) feel. (Hey, I could be wrong. ) My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. I can't help with the local meeting issue. Maybe you folks want to go bi-monthly (every two months). I thought I saw a local meeting listed each month. Yes, Phil wanted to retire but they wanted an Editor in Mich), Maybe someone outside Michigan could be editor (NO, I'm not volunteering). But it's the members OUTSIDE MI who pay their dues - really a subscription - which allow the high quality offset graphics and layout. (Guess you may not have seen the earliest mimeographed issues. (I have them!). Again, I have no answers here. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. Then maybe new younger members need to be found. That's all I can think of. I feel your pain. Until he died about 5 years ago, Dave Heitz would hold an annual gathering at his house (a more generous man I have yet to meet.) These are now long gone and miss seeing the fellow collectors. But, here in the east, no one is taking the reins. I hope my comments don't sound harsh. They are not meant to be. I'm not sure anyone here has the answer but I hope all realize that without members (or subscribers, if you wish) MAPS and ITG cannot grow. So spread the word (this is to all Phono-Lers) and get new members or subscribers. It's still a great bargain. Steve Ramm **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From Srsells1 at aol.com Sun Jun 21 21:25:30 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 21 21:27:41 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lherault@bu.edu writes: Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I would imagine. But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC! Just my opinion Steve RAmm **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com Sun Jun 21 21:34:34 2009 From: edisonphonoworks at hotmail.com (Thomas Edison) Date: Sun Jun 21 21:34:39 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collector. In-Reply-To: <20090621200117.CB35C73D5E3@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> References: <20090621200117.CB35C73D5E3@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: My 3 month old daughter's favorite record so far is Alexanders Ragtime Band by Billy Murray, and the Pussy Cat Rag by Ada Jones with the Peerless Quar. on Blue Amberols. She has already babbled into the Ediphone. _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290 From rich-mail at octoxol.com Sun Jun 21 22:40:38 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sun Jun 21 22:40:41 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A3F1956.7060907@octoxol.com> Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage. Srsells1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lherault@bu.edu writes: > > Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would > save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I > would imagine. > > > But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have > gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and > only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just > digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your > mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf > through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down > at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd > miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC! > > Just my opinion > > Steve RAmm > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From zonophone2006 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 03:23:21 2009 From: zonophone2006 at aol.com (zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 03:23:46 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) In-Reply-To: <4A3F1956.7060907@octoxol.com> References: <4A3F1956.7060907@octoxol.com> Message-ID: <8CBC13A9A52715C-1310-5981@WEBMAIL-MB07.sysops.aol.com> and look how green it would be -----Original Message----- From: Rich To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage.? ? Srsells1@aol.com wrote:? > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lherault@bu.edu writes:? > > Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would? > save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I? > would imagine.? > > > But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have > gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and > only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just > digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your > mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf > through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down > at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd > miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC!? > > Just my opinion? > > Steve RAmm? > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)? > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? > > _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? From ddazer at sbcglobal.net Mon Jun 22 04:17:26 2009 From: ddazer at sbcglobal.net (David Dazer) Date: Mon Jun 22 04:24:13 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collector. Message-ID: <448866.25778.qm@web81708.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I recorded my daughter on a blank cylinder at the age of 6 singing Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer. Dave --- On Mon, 6/22/09, Thomas Edison wrote: From: Thomas Edison Subject: [Phono-L] Young collector. To: "phono L" Date: Monday, June 22, 2009, 12:34 AM My 3 month old daughter's favorite record so far is Alexanders Ragtime Band by Billy Murray, and the Pussy Cat Rag by Ada Jones with the Peerless Quar.? on Blue Amberols. She has already babbled into the Ediphone. _________________________________________________________________ Lauren found her dream laptop. Find the PC that?s right for you. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/choosepc/?ocid=ftp_val_wl_290_______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Mon Jun 22 06:23:13 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Mon Jun 22 06:23:34 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001301c9f33c$98639460$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> What I'm reading here seems to echo what I see in local (to me) organizations, our historical society, of which I am a member, for instance. Our annual meeting was attended by the board of trustees and one or two other members. We get maybe 20 people at our monthly meetings, some of whom are non members and we have 150 or so who are members ( at one time it was over 200). We have trouble finding people to serve on the board. Our treasurer has wanted to step down for a couple of years now. Our membership is aging. We'd be overjoyed to see people in their 40s join. They'd be youngsters compared to most of us who are on the board. I don't have a solution or suggestions but I will be following the thread closely. Ron L (twice, past-president of the North Attleborough Historical Society) -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Srsells1@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:20 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:30:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh041@earthlink.net writes: Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? Asking. BTW, maybe it's a senior moment (and I don't get on Phono-L a lot) but I can't remember who you are by name. (Sorry but you haven't signed your last postings and your email doesn't give me a clue. Did I miss it?) I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We see your articles, but we've never seen you. My guess is that MAPS is based in MI but has regional chapters. The meeting in I are really the regional meetings. We don't have a regional group here - and I don't think we will either. I did come to one Phonovention and made a trip of it but I have other alliances for my travel time and I choose to go to ARSC's Conference every year - for the last 20 years. I'm also their volunteer Treasurer (8th term). Anthony Sinclair in Australia and Rond D in CA aren't coming to meetings in MI but they, like me, sure contribute a lot of time to input on ITG. From the emails I get thanking me, I guess folks appreciate my efforts as well. MAPS is more than monthly meeting in MI, as I said before. At least I think that's what those members outside MI (the majority) feel. (Hey, I could be wrong. ) My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, he's going to need a rest. I can't help with the local meeting issue. Maybe you folks want to go bi-monthly (every two months). I thought I saw a local meeting listed each month. Yes, Phil wanted to retire but they wanted an Editor in Mich), Maybe someone outside Michigan could be editor (NO, I'm not volunteering). But it's the members OUTSIDE MI who pay their dues - really a subscription - which allow the high quality offset graphics and layout. (Guess you may not have seen the earliest mimeographed issues. (I have them!). Again, I have no answers here. The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going again. Then maybe new younger members need to be found. That's all I can think of. I feel your pain. Until he died about 5 years ago, Dave Heitz would hold an annual gathering at his house (a more generous man I have yet to meet.) These are now long gone and miss seeing the fellow collectors. But, here in the east, no one is taking the reins. I hope my comments don't sound harsh. They are not meant to be. I'm not sure anyone here has the answer but I hope all realize that without members (or subscribers, if you wish) MAPS and ITG cannot grow. So spread the word (this is to all Phono-Lers) and get new members or subscribers. It's still a great bargain. Steve Ramm **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Mon Jun 22 06:13:58 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Mon Jun 22 06:24:46 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer In-Reply-To: <4a3f013d.20038e0a.69e2.05ce@mx.google.com> References: <4a3f013d.20038e0a.69e2.05ce@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <001201c9f33b$4d921890$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Are you saying that the diaphragm is stamped with that information? If not, how can you be sure someone has not replaced the original diaphragm with something that works, in this case, cardboard. It was not easy to get replacement parts 40 years ago. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Jay Horenstein Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer I have a very strange tone arm and reproducer. The diaphragm appears to be made of cardboard. It's stamped 'J.H. ELLIS Melodious Music-Master' and has a patent date of 1916-1919. Anybody out there know anything about this company? Thanks, Jay Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Mon Jun 22 06:31:06 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Mon Jun 22 06:31:47 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <001701c9f33d$b21ab860$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> And that is why I included "as an option" in my message, Steve. I felt the same way about wanting to hold, read the physical item when the Mississippi Rag went digital-only. It made it much harder for me to read. Often I would be two or more issues behind. However it did allow color photos and more of them. And, I could enlarge the print to make it easier to read if I wanted to. Electronic storage is much more compact than the physical publication as well. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Srsells1@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:26 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lherault@bu.edu writes: Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I would imagine. But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC! Just my opinion Steve RAmm **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Mon Jun 22 07:30:03 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L) Date: Mon Jun 22 07:30:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) In-Reply-To: <8CBC13A9A52715C-1310-5981@WEBMAIL-MB07.sysops.aol.com> References: <4A3F1956.7060907@octoxol.com> <8CBC13A9A52715C-1310-5981@WEBMAIL-MB07.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <003801c9f345$ee733370$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> When mine looked green, I needed a new monitor. 8-) Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of zonophone2006@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:23 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) and look how green it would be -----Original Message----- From: Rich To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage.? ? Srsells1@aol.com wrote:? > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lherault@bu.edu writes:? > > Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would? > save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I? > would imagine.? > > > But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have > gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and > only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just > digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your > mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf > through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down > at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd > miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC!? > > Just my opinion? > > Steve RAmm? > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)? > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? > > _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Phonophan at aol.com Mon Jun 22 07:32:39 2009 From: Phonophan at aol.com (Phonophan@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 07:33:38 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer Message-ID: I've seen Ellis aftermarket soundboxes before. As I recall they did use some kind of composition diaphragm. Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From AllenAmet at aol.com Mon Jun 22 09:29:20 2009 From: AllenAmet at aol.com (AllenAmet@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 09:34:37 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/2009 10:02:06 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lherault@bu.edu writes: It's stamped 'J.H. ELLIS Melodious Music-Master' and has a patent date of 1916-1919. ----------------- This would be James H. Ellis - can u be more specific as to the patent dates on it? He worked on diaphragms. allen From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 09:56:39 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Mon Jun 22 09:56:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer In-Reply-To: <001201c9f33b$4d921890$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <4a3f013d.20038e0a.69e2.05ce@mx.google.com> <001201c9f33b$4d921890$57d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <4a3fb7d0.09038e0a.18a2.ffffe6f9@mx.google.com> Yes, the information is stamped on the diaphragm. I asked this question because I purchased that cute Fern-O-Grand at the show, and this tone arm came on the machine. It appears original yet strange all at the same time. However, Dan Melvin emailed me that in Fabrizio & Paul's book 'Phonographs With Flair' it explains that these machines were equipped with off the shelf generic parts, and would vary from machine to machine. So that withstanding, I'm comforted to know that it is original to the machine. Thank you everybody for help. Jay H -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Ron L Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:14 AM To: 'Antique Phonograph List' Subject: RE: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer Are you saying that the diaphragm is stamped with that information? If not, how can you be sure someone has not replaced the original diaphragm with something that works, in this case, cardboard. It was not easy to get replacement parts 40 years ago. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Jay Horenstein Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 11:58 PM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] mystery tone arm and reproducer I have a very strange tone arm and reproducer. The diaphragm appears to be made of cardboard. It's stamped 'J.H. ELLIS Melodious Music-Master' and has a patent date of 1916-1919. Anybody out there know anything about this company? Thanks, Jay Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From steve_noreen at msn.com Mon Jun 22 11:25:51 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Mon Jun 22 11:26:25 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Frow cylinder book needs new spine Message-ID: Hello, I have worn out the spine on my Frow cylinder book, does anyone know a place that can replace it? Steve From steve_noreen at msn.com Mon Jun 22 11:28:39 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Mon Jun 22 11:28:59 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Limit screw for automatic reproducer Message-ID: Hello, I need a limit screw for an automatic reproducer, let me know if you have one available. Steve From kbab1 at charter.net Mon Jun 22 14:06:49 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Mon Jun 22 14:19:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union show/Young collectors Message-ID: <795F1c00Q3CVcJh0595FPj.@charter.net> I have to share a story about what happened at the Union show this year. There have been some comments made recently about young collectors and this story comes to mind. This is the first year since going to the Union show for over 27 years that I decided to set up with another collector to sell our excess items. There was a family that came to our table. The two young boys were about 6 and 8 years old. They both knew quite a bit about phonographs. They commented about what models we had on our table in great detail. The parents said that both boys are very interested in old phonographs and that they support them in their interests. The older boy, Benjamin, was commenting about the Talk-O-Phone on our table, again with many details that can only be found by a lot of reading. I was so impressed with their knowledge and excitement about phonographs that I grabbed something from our table to show them. I asked Benjamin if he had ever seen a set of Nipper salt and pepper shakers. His eyes lit up when I showed him a pair. He went on to tell me all about Nipper. After listening to him, I said he and his brother could have them. I thought Benjamin was going to have a stroke right then and there. His eyes got very wide open and the expression on his face was priceless. He held on to the Nippers like he had gold. He told me that he and his younger brother were going to put them in a special place at home. I found out that the two boys had a couple of phonographs at home that they play and tinker with. The parents also bought them a paper organ later that day. I mentioned to them that they should consider going to Jasper's on Saturday night for a real treat for the boys. They took my advice and when I met them at Jasper's you could tell that the boys were in heaven. I do believe that our hobby is getting a little top heavy in age. Anything that we can do to encourage younger people to get interested would benefit us all. As far as the Union show itself I have to say that it was, as always, great. Not only is it great to meet fellow collectors and dealers but the rare phonograph examples that are on display and/or for sale are amazing. I was able to pick up a lid for my Edison Spring Motor, a nice Rigid Arm Victor E, and an original Nipper radiator ornament. Also, Ron Sitko is there with just about every reproduction part available to support us collectors. Not to mention the Smith's with their great parts also. As I mentioned previously, I set up this year to sell for the first time. I was out on the grass area. I have to say that there were more outside vendors this year. Usually there are only one or two outside booths. This year there had to be around 6 to 8 of us. The inside was sold out as always. The early buyer traffic was very heavy on Friday. There are a lot of items that trade hands on Friday and never make it to a table. If you have never been to a Union show, I would highly recommend getting there next year. I have found that posting a "Union Wish List" prior to the show here on Phono-L works out great. There are several dealers that are members of this forum and will let you know if they have what you are looking for. Ken Brekke From dan at old-phonographs.com Mon Jun 22 15:05:20 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Mon Jun 22 15:13:08 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Union show/Young collectors In-Reply-To: <795F1c00Q3CVcJh0595FPj.@charter.net> References: <795F1c00Q3CVcJh0595FPj.@charter.net> Message-ID: I met these boys and their parents too while they were visiting Larry and Myra Karp's booth. There were astounding. I think the older boy knew more about phonograph than some of the adult collectors/dealers at the show! It really was a nice thing to see and what great kids with very supportive parents. This tells me our hobby isn't going to have issues in the future. Imagine how they must have felt walking into The Victorian Palace! Dan On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 2:06 PM, Ken and Brenda Brekke wrote: > I have to share a story about what happened at the Union show this year. > There have been some comments made recently about young collectors and this > story comes to mind. This is the first year since going to the Union show > for over 27 years that I decided to set up with another collector to sell > our excess items. There was a family that came to our table. The two > young > boys were about 6 and 8 years old. They both knew quite a bit about > phonographs. They commented about what models we had on our table in great > detail. The parents said that both boys are very interested in old > phonographs and that they support them in their interests. The older boy, > Benjamin, was commenting about the Talk-O-Phone on our table, again with > many details that can only be found by a lot of reading. I was so > impressed > with their knowledge and excitement about phonographs that I grabbed > something from our table to show them. I asked Benjamin if he had ever > seen > a set of Nipper salt and pepper shakers. His eyes lit up when I showed him > a pair. He went on to tell me all about Nipper. After listening to him, I > said he and his brother could have them. I thought Benjamin was going to > have a stroke right then and there. His eyes got very wide open and the > expression on his face was priceless. He held on to the Nippers like he > had > gold. He told me that he and his younger brother were going to put them in > a special place at home. I found out that the two boys had a couple of > phonographs at home that they play and tinker with. The parents also > bought > them a paper organ later that day. I mentioned to them that they should > consider going to Jasper's on Saturday night for a real treat for the boys. > They took my advice and when I met them at Jasper's you could tell that the > boys were in heaven. > > > > I do believe that our hobby is getting a little top heavy in age. Anything > that we can do to encourage younger people to get interested would benefit > us all. > > > > As far as the Union show itself I have to say that it was, as always, > great. > Not only is it great to meet fellow collectors and dealers but the rare > phonograph examples that are on display and/or for sale are amazing. I was > able to pick up a lid for my Edison Spring Motor, a nice Rigid Arm Victor > E, > and an original Nipper radiator ornament. Also, Ron Sitko is there with > just about every reproduction part available to support us collectors. Not > to mention the Smith's with their great parts also. As I mentioned > previously, I set up this year to sell for the first time. I was out on > the > grass area. I have to say that there were more outside vendors this year. > Usually there are only one or two outside booths. This year there had to > be > around 6 to 8 of us. The inside was sold out as always. The early buyer > traffic was very heavy on Friday. There are a lot of items that trade > hands on Friday and never make it to a table. If you have never been to a > Union show, I would highly recommend getting there next year. I have > found > that posting a "Union Wish List" prior to the show here on Phono-L works > out > great. There are several dealers that are members of this forum and will > let you know if they have what you are looking for. > > > > Ken Brekke > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From rvuill at comcast.net Mon Jun 22 15:09:53 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Mon Jun 22 15:18:18 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com><81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E87DB.3030709@octoxol.com> Message-ID: <1CDB3A5005A446C3B5F21A95A414A07C@your4dacd0ea75> Hi Rich, Well you were right, the felt was the problem. It was quite distorted and hanging over the edge of the brass disk on the governor. . As the rest of the felt looked pretty good, I only had to reposition it in the arm that holds it and cut off the excess and reform the front so that it was parallel with the governor disk. Thanks for your help. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > Try and change the felt without spreading the bent metal that holds it. > Usually you can cut a piece of real wool felt a bit tapered and pull > it into the clamp without bending them as they tend to break. Use real > 100% wool felt or it will fail. > > Bob wrote: >> Hi Rich, >> The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change >> that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you. >> Bob >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" >> To: "Antique Phonograph List" >> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear >> >> >>> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off >>> and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the >>> felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed out >>> the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not >>> cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the >>> gear not so. >>> >>> Bob wrote: >>>> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but >>>> am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it >>>> makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be >>>> traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations >>>> that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. >>>> The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the >>>> reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears >>>> to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the >>>> worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to >>>> build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I >>>> think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I >>>> do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of >>>> it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see >>>> areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with >>>> sand paper. To try to build up an >>> y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane >>> varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating >>> at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth >>> enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this >>> technique or any other technique that you think will solve the >>> problem. Thanks >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: >> 06/21/09 05:53:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: 06/21/09 05:53:00 From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 15:21:49 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 15:28:43 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Message-ID: lol some may be still yellow orange too In a message dated 6/22/2009 10:34:03 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, lherault@bu.edu writes: When mine looked green, I needed a new monitor. 8-) Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of zonophone2006@aol.com Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:23 AM To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) and look how green it would be -----Original Message----- From: Rich To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage.? ? Srsells1@aol.com wrote:? > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > lherault@bu.edu writes:? > > Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It would? > save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I? > would imagine.? > > > But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications have > gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our records and > only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets just > digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in opening your > mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box that you can leaf > through and hold and file where you will find it, instead of plunking down > at the PC and reading it off a screen by scrolling through it? I know, I'd > miss it. I'm already spending too much time on my PC!? > > Just my opinion? > > Steve RAmm? > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)? > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? > > _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221823273x1201398689/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From rich-mail at octoxol.com Mon Jun 22 16:32:46 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Mon Jun 22 16:32:53 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear In-Reply-To: <1CDB3A5005A446C3B5F21A95A414A07C@your4dacd0ea75> References: <373081E346314B369846BF1DCF87E976@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E60A4.3080902@octoxol.com><81F0CD3BE0EA4274AD8B008F1BFA2AB5@your4dacd0ea75> <4A3E87DB.3030709@octoxol.com> <1CDB3A5005A446C3B5F21A95A414A07C@your4dacd0ea75> Message-ID: <4A40149E.4060108@octoxol.com> If you plan on using the machine a lot it will still help to change it out. Once the felt gets oil soaked and the old oil oxidizes its pretty much done. Good to hear that it worked out well! Rich Bob wrote: > Hi Rich, > Well you were right, the felt was the problem. It was quite > distorted and hanging over the edge of the brass disk on the governor. > . As the rest of the felt looked pretty good, I only had to reposition > it in the arm that holds it and cut off the excess and reform the front > so that it was parallel with the governor disk. Thanks for your help. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:19 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > > >> Try and change the felt without spreading the bent metal that holds it. >> Usually you can cut a piece of real wool felt a bit tapered and pull >> it into the clamp without bending them as they tend to break. Use real >> 100% wool felt or it will fail. >> >> Bob wrote: >>> Hi Rich, >>> The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change >>> that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you. >>> Bob >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" >>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" >>> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear >>> >>> >>>> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean it off >>>> and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look at the >>>> felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed >>>> out >>>> the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not >>>> cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy, the >>>> gear not so. >>>> >>>> Bob wrote: >>>>> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but >>>>> am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it >>>>> makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be >>>>> traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations >>>>> that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. >>>>> The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the >>>>> reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears >>>>> to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the >>>>> worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to >>>>> build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I >>>>> think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I >>>>> do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of >>>>> it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see >>>>> areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with >>>>> sand paper. To try to build up an >>>> y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane >>>> varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating >>>> at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth >>>> enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this >>>> technique or any other technique that you think will solve the >>>> problem. Thanks >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> >>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> No virus found in this incoming message. >>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >>> Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: >>> 06/21/09 05:53:00 >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.83/2191 - Release Date: > 06/21/09 05:53:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From cdh041 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 22 18:24:38 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:25:00 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - Message-ID: <410-22009622312438828@earthlink.net> RON: you're echoing the plight of any and all organizations that deal in historic artifacts. The nmembership is aging, and there are no (or very few) new bodies to replace them (us). I belong to MAPS, of course, and the membership is past age 55 or 60 on the average. Nobody wants to take any of the reins, just because they feel that someone else, who is younger should do it. But there isn't anyone who feels up to it. I've been in MAPS since around 1981. I'm 80 now, and I just ain't up to it. The three vintage car clubs I belong to tell the same story. A lot of it has to do with the fact that, whatever the artifact, there will be nothing for today's people to look back on in the future, and appreciate as an artifact. All of out sound and sight devices today are throw-away trash. There is no serviceability for them, and nobody would treasure them enough to keep them in service. When one of the things becomes either worn out, or defective, it's replaced, and discarded. It never was that way in the thirties and forties. There were radios, phonographs, clocks, and cars that I drooled over, wishing I could have "one of them-there". Time passed, and I bought an old car to restore. I bought radios and phonographs that I lusted for. I bought armloads of records that appealed to me.At last, I would have what I admired when I was a kid. That story is that of most of us, I'll bet. But what today, do our younger generation see that they aspire to posess. What things, like beautiful cabinetry do they have to admire, and want some day? The era of excellence and beauty has passed. Is there anything today, that any of us would adore? I can't think of anything that qualifies as fine and noteworthy. There are probably no motion pictures that I would care to preserve, as I have from other eras. So, there is what my aged eyes see as a future for our treasures. Too few of our younger generations can appreciate hat we do. We do, because we admired fine things of our past that were beyond our reach. That whole thing has changed now, and I haven't any good thoughts about how to rejuvenate any of our hobbies. They're all singing the same song of woe. > [Original Message] > From: Ron L > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/22/2009 9:24:12 AM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - > > What I'm reading here seems to echo what I see in local (to me) > organizations, our historical society, of which I am a member, for instance. > Our annual meeting was attended by the board of trustees and one or two > other members. We get maybe 20 people at our monthly meetings, some of whom > are non members and we have 150 or so who are members ( at one time it was > over 200). We have trouble finding people to serve on the board. Our > treasurer has wanted to step down for a couple of years now. Our > membership is aging. We'd be overjoyed to see people in their 40s join. > They'd be youngsters compared to most of us who are on the board. I don't > have a solution or suggestions but I will be following the thread closely. > > Ron L > (twice, past-president of the North Attleborough Historical Society) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Srsells1@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 12:20 AM > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:30:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? > > > Asking. BTW, maybe it's a senior moment (and I don't get on Phono-L a lot) > but I can't remember who you are by name. (Sorry but you haven't signed > your last postings and your email doesn't give me a clue. Did I miss it?) > > I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's > going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on > occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the > phonoventions. > You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this > outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We > > see your articles, but we've never seen you. > My guess is that MAPS is based in MI but has regional chapters. The meeting > in I are really the regional meetings. We don't have a regional group here > - and I don't think we will either. I did come to one Phonovention and > made a trip of it but I have other alliances for my travel time and I > choose > to go to ARSC's Conference every year - for the last 20 years. I'm also > their volunteer Treasurer (8th term). Anthony Sinclair in Australia and > Rond D > in CA aren't coming to meetings in MI but they, like me, sure contribute a > lot of time to input on ITG. From the emails I get thanking me, I guess > folks appreciate my efforts as well. MAPS is more than monthly meeting in > MI, > as I said before. At least I think that's what those members outside MI > (the majority) feel. (Hey, I could be wrong. ) > > > > My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that > there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have > > a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, > part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, > I'm > no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing > my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a > > second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost > the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the > editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a > thankless > job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any > organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street > corner. > In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while > longer. > How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, > he's going to > need a rest. > > I can't help with the local meeting issue. Maybe you folks want to go > bi-monthly (every two months). I thought I saw a local meeting listed each > month. Yes, Phil wanted to retire but they wanted an Editor in Mich), Maybe > > someone outside Michigan could be editor (NO, I'm not volunteering). But > it's > the members OUTSIDE MI who pay their dues - really a subscription - which > allow the high quality offset graphics and layout. (Guess you may not have > seen the earliest mimeographed issues. (I have them!). Again, I have no > answers here. > > > > The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the > pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and > just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, > and > get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were > something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting > together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, > asleep, > and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of > that > is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going > again. > > Then maybe new younger members need to be found. That's all I can think of. > I feel your pain. Until he died about 5 years ago, Dave Heitz would hold > an annual gathering at his house (a more generous man I have yet to meet.) > These are now long gone and miss seeing the fellow collectors. But, here in > > the east, no one is taking the reins. > > I hope my comments don't sound harsh. They are not meant to be. I'm not > sure anyone here has the answer but I hope all realize that without members > (or subscribers, if you wish) MAPS and ITG cannot grow. So spread the word > (this is to all Phono-Lers) and get new members or subscribers. It's still > a > great bargain. > > Steve Ramm > > > > > > > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 22 18:31:49 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:32:03 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) Message-ID: <410-22009622313149953@earthlink.net> There is one problem with e-mailed club pubs. Many of the members have cable, and high speed internet. I haven't, and it's not because I'm too cheap to subscribe, either. My phone exchanmge [(248) 627] can't furnish DSL service, because most subscribers are too far from the central office. So, I have dial-ip, and by George, it's slow. I tried the e-mailed monthly bulletin from one of the car clubs. It tied up my computer for more than half an hour. Had to go back to mail. I'm not about to have cable service for HS internet, only because I don't want TV, and I'd be paying for it. > [Original Message] > From: Ron L > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/22/2009 10:33:50 AM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) > > When mine looked green, I needed a new monitor. > > 8-) > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of zonophone2006@aol.com > Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 6:23 AM > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) > > and look how green it would be > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rich > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Mon, Jun 22, 2009 1:40 am > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) > > > Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own > staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage.? > ? > Srsells1@aol.com wrote:? > > > In a message dated 6/21/2009 4:02:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > lherault@bu.edu writes:? > > > Offering a web based one as an alternative would be a good idea. It > would? > > save on postage and printing costs, maximizing the use of dues money, I? > > would imagine.? > > > > But not everyone wants to read on line. Actually a few publications > have > gone digital. But if we accept that then lets just get rid of our > records and > only listen to them on PCs and Ipods. . And, shoot, lets > just > digitalize all our catalogs and toss them. Isn't there any joy in > opening your > mailbox and seeing an issue of In The Groove or The Sound Box > that you can leaf > through and hold and file where you will find it, > instead of plunking down > at the PC and reading it off a screen by > scrolling through it? I know, I'd > miss it. I'm already spending too much > time on my PC!? > > > Just my opinion? > > > Steve RAmm? > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004)? > > _______________________________________________? > > Phono-L mailing list? > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? > > > _______________________________________________? > Phono-L mailing list? > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Srsells1 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 18:35:26 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:35:45 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] History Detectives - Worth watching TONIGHT (west coast alert) Message-ID: I just finished watching the History Detective story on the Psychphone.. JUST aired on East Coast.. It's the first story and runs maybe 20 minutes. Of course the cringe factor started in at the beginning and I wasn't impressed by the researcher. But with knowledgeable folks like Paul Israel (Editor of the Edison Papers but not a phono expert), Jerry Fabris at the Edison Site (but here apparantly visiting the Menlo Park location where Jack Stanley is curator- West Orange is NEVER mentioned!) and Tim Fabrizio (who solves the query!) it's pretty entertaining. There is more on the PBS site at: _History Detectives . Investigations - Psychophone | PBS_ (http://www.pbs.org/opb/historydetectives/investigations/701_psychophone.html) But not the episode! Those in other time zones still have time to watch. It's on at 9pm. Steve **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From cdh041 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 22 18:41:15 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:41:29 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - Message-ID: <410-22009622314115125@earthlink.net> Interesting. Indeed, my name doesn't appear on my messages. I'm not trying to hide, but the system does that My name is Douglas Houston. That should be on the signatures, but isn't. I'll have to do something about it. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/22/2009 12:48:30 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - > > In a message dated 6/20/2009 6:30:53 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > Good message, Steve. Are you asking me, or telling me? > > > Asking. BTW, maybe it's a senior moment (and I don't get on Phono-L a lot) > but I can't remember who you are by name. (Sorry but you haven't signed > your last postings and your email doesn't give me a clue. Did I miss it?) > > I've been a member of MAPS since about 1981, so I do have an idea what's > going on with the group here in Michigan. I've even written articles on > occasiion. I did the presentation for, I believe, three of the phonoventions. > You're in Philly, 600 miles from here, and I'm in Michigan, where this > outfit is based. I don't think that you've seen any of what went on here. We > see your articles, but we've never seen you. > My guess is that MAPS is based in MI but has regional chapters. The meeting > in I are really the regional meetings. We don't have a regional group here > - and I don't think we will either. I did come to one Phonovention and > made a trip of it but I have other alliances for my travel time and I choose > to go to ARSC's Conference every year - for the last 20 years. I'm also > their volunteer Treasurer (8th term). Anthony Sinclair in Australia and Rond D > in CA aren't coming to meetings in MI but they, like me, sure contribute a > lot of time to input on ITG. From the emails I get thanking me, I guess > folks appreciate my efforts as well. MAPS is more than monthly meeting in MI, > as I said before. At least I think that's what those members outside MI > (the majority) feel. (Hey, I could be wrong. ) > > > > My claim that MAPS is falling apart in Michigan is based on the fact that > there are no monthly meetings, hosted by members who are collecters. I have > a lot of radios (about 600), and probably 20 phonographs, many of them, > part of the radios but there's no space here for hosting a meeting. Also, I'm > no longer the kid that I was, and that's a factor as well. I enjoy sharing > my chatter with the other members in the meetings. Don't get the idea for a > second that I'm a freeloader. I sort of read that in your copy. We've lost > the cohesion that we once had. Phil Stewart has wanted to pass the > editorial torch to someone else, and there have been no takers. That's a thankless > job that has to be done. The publication is the foundation of any > organization, and you don't find editors, standing around on some street corner. > In the absence of a new taker, Phil consented to stay on for a while longer. > How much longer will it be reasonable for Phil to hang on? Like all of us, > he's going to > need a rest. > > I can't help with the local meeting issue. Maybe you folks want to go > bi-monthly (every two months). I thought I saw a local meeting listed each > month. Yes, Phil wanted to retire but they wanted an Editor in Mich), Maybe > someone outside Michigan could be editor (NO, I'm not volunteering). But it's > the members OUTSIDE MI who pay their dues - really a subscription - which > allow the high quality offset graphics and layout. (Guess you may not have > seen the earliest mimeographed issues. (I have them!). Again, I have no > answers here. > > > > The interest is here, but it has to be re-kindled, and hopefully to the > pitch that it once was. That's going to take imagination, dedication, and > just plain leadership. It isn't there now. Somebody has to take the reins, and > get this rig back in motion. The monthly (or nearly so) meetings were > something to liook forward to, and to remember afterwards. That getting > together once made a strong, and enviable organization. It's somewhere, asleep, > and needs to be awakened. I hope to live long enough to see it. None of that > is going to be easy, but it will be rewarding, once it gets thing going > again. > > Then maybe new younger members need to be found. That's all I can think of. > I feel your pain. Until he died about 5 years ago, Dave Heitz would hold > an annual gathering at his house (a more generous man I have yet to meet.) > These are now long gone and miss seeing the fellow collectors. But, here in > the east, no one is taking the reins. > > I hope my comments don't sound harsh. They are not meant to be. I'm not > sure anyone here has the answer but I hope all realize that without members > (or subscribers, if you wish) MAPS and ITG cannot grow. So spread the word > (this is to all Phono-Lers) and get new members or subscribers. It's still a > great bargain. > > Steve Ramm > > > > > > > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Mon Jun 22 18:52:19 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Mon Jun 22 18:52:30 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - In-Reply-To: <410-22009622314115125@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009622314115125@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi Doug & the list, On the original message you sent your name was in the from so I knew who you were. Unless you add you name to the end of the message after someone replies it is lost. Steve > Interesting. Indeed, my name doesn't appear on my messages. I'm not trying > to hide, but the system does that My name is Douglas Houston. That should > be on the signatures, but isn't. I'll have to do something about it. > > From Srsells1 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 19:01:35 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 19:01:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] MAPS going strong - (Going paperless) - I like the .pdf idea. Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/2009 1:45:05 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rich-mail@octoxol.com writes: Provide a download of the Ppf and then you could print it and add your own staple. let the people who want to get it mailed pay the postage. NOw that's a practical idea and I like that. Just remember that the cost per copy decreases a lot with a quantity. If they printed only half the normal copies they would reduce their cost of PRINTING by about 25%. But It could be an option. It's harder to have web based because you have to password protect each account. Of couse all of this gets away from Doug's comment - his original purpose for posting - that the LOCAL Michigan meetings are not being held regularly or are not interesting. I'm not sure we can do much about that for those of us not in MI. Steve Ramm Steve **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From Srsells1 at aol.com Mon Jun 22 19:01:28 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Mon Jun 22 19:01:58 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Why the Hobby is aging (was MAPS going strong - ) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/22/2009 9:26:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, cdh041@earthlink.net writes: It never was that way in the thirties and forties. There were radios, phonographs, clocks, and cars that I drooled over, wishing I could have "one of them-there". Time passed, and I bought an old car to restore. I bought radios and phonographs that I lusted for. I bought armloads of records that appealed to me.At last, I would have what I admired when I was a kid. That story is that of most of us, I'll bet. Doug. one reason is price and availability. When I started collecting Phonos and cylinders in early 70s (late) they were plentiful. Every country house auctioon had one or two or five and cylinders were going for a buck each tops! Now ANY phono is considered an ANTIQUE! and there are basically no country house auctions with phonos. Where did they all go? Well, visit the average phono collector and you will see 5 or 6 or even 25 phonos in their collection! Go to Union (though I haven't been to that one) and you will see many "dealers" who aren't collectors but doing this solely for a business. (No not all but some.). Now what if you were 15 or 18 and might buy a fixer upper or - like me (technically challenged) just wanted to buy an phonograph which would play. Where would you find one at a cheap enough price? Not as easy I might add. I collect phono ephemera and I have to say I haven't bought ANYTHING in about 6 years. Ebay made prices go too high and there are no longer those country auctions. Now they are all "estate sales" with high prices! Just an opinion. Steve Ramm **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From rich-mail at octoxol.com Mon Jun 22 19:42:00 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Mon Jun 22 19:42:03 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Why the Hobby is aging (was MAPS going strong - ) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4040F8.4090704@octoxol.com> If you provide a pdf monthly publication and for the people who want actual paper because they can not d/l the pdf then print the pdf and mail it to them. You can run it off on a ink jet printer. Rich Srsells1@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 6/22/2009 9:26:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > > It never was that way in the thirties and forties. There were radios, > phonographs, clocks, and cars that I drooled over, wishing I could have "one > of them-there". Time passed, and I bought an old car to restore. I bought > radios and phonographs that I lusted for. I bought armloads of records that > appealed to me.At last, I would have what I admired when I was a kid. That > story is that of most of us, I'll bet. > > > > Doug. one reason is price and availability. When I started collecting > Phonos and cylinders in early 70s (late) they were plentiful. Every country > house auctioon had one or two or five and cylinders were going for a buck > each tops! > > Now ANY phono is considered an ANTIQUE! and there are basically no country > house auctions with phonos. Where did they all go? Well, visit the average > phono collector and you will see 5 or 6 or even 25 phonos in their > collection! Go to Union (though I haven't been to that one) and you will see many > "dealers" who aren't collectors but doing this solely for a business. (No > not all but some.). Now what if you were 15 or 18 and might buy a fixer upper > or - like me (technically challenged) just wanted to buy an phonograph > which would play. Where would you find one at a cheap enough price? Not as > easy I might add. > > I collect phono ephemera and I have to say I haven't bought ANYTHING in > about 6 years. Ebay made prices go too high and there are no longer those > country auctions. Now they are all "estate sales" with high prices! > > Just an opinion. > > Steve Ramm > > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From cdh041 at earthlink.net Mon Jun 22 21:41:39 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Mon Jun 22 21:41:57 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Why the Hobby is aging (was MAPS going strong - ) Message-ID: <410-22009622344139234@earthlink.net> Oh, indeed. Those of us who collect phonographs, and keep them, find that they have appreciated enough to terrify us. I bought my Victrols XVIII for 120 bucks,and the guy was delighted to sell it. NOW, look at the prices! I had a Breitling wrist watch that I had about 30 bucks in, 30 yeas ago. It was good, and working. A very good friend asked me if I had an extra watch that he could have, and I sold him the Breitling for the 30 bucks. He came back a few weeks later, and saw that one like it was in some ad for 150 bucks. Was I sure that I wanted him to have it? Of course! Recently,I talked to a watch collector friend, and he thinks that the Breitling is now worth $16K. Good Grief. My friend still has it, and it's one of his treasured posessions. It's that way all over. I have an accumulation of high end audio gear that I paid peanuts for, and the prices on eBay for that stuff, justify hiring an armed guard. In 1954, I bought an RCA pre-war TV-radio combo for $35.00 on Radio row.Today, you'll see a price tag of $7000-plus on one that m,ay not work (Mine does). It's insane, I tell ya!! Doug. Houston > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/22/2009 10:03:05 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Why the Hobby is aging (was MAPS going strong - ) > > > In a message dated 6/22/2009 9:26:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > cdh041@earthlink.net writes: > > > It never was that way in the thirties and forties. There were radios, > phonographs, clocks, and cars that I drooled over, wishing I could have "one > of them-there". Time passed, and I bought an old car to restore. I bought > radios and phonographs that I lusted for. I bought armloads of records that > appealed to me.At last, I would have what I admired when I was a kid. That > story is that of most of us, I'll bet. > > > > Doug. one reason is price and availability. When I started collecting > Phonos and cylinders in early 70s (late) they were plentiful. Every country > house auctioon had one or two or five and cylinders were going for a buck > each tops! > > Now ANY phono is considered an ANTIQUE! and there are basically no country > house auctions with phonos. Where did they all go? Well, visit the average > phono collector and you will see 5 or 6 or even 25 phonos in their > collection! Go to Union (though I haven't been to that one) and you will see many > "dealers" who aren't collectors but doing this solely for a business. (No > not all but some.). Now what if you were 15 or 18 and might buy a fixer upper > or - like me (technically challenged) just wanted to buy an phonograph > which would play. Where would you find one at a cheap enough price? Not as > easy I might add. > > I collect phono ephemera and I have to say I haven't bought ANYTHING in > about 6 years. Ebay made prices go too high and there are no longer those > country auctions. Now they are all "estate sales" with high prices! > > Just an opinion. > > Steve Ramm > > > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Tubanuts at aol.com Tue Jun 23 07:29:34 2009 From: Tubanuts at aol.com (Tubanuts@aol.com) Date: Tue Jun 23 07:35:07 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collector. Message-ID: At that age, their mind hasn't been contaminated with todays music and they appreciate the REAL stuff. **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222377052x1201454391/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 10:42:15 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Tue Jun 23 10:42:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! Message-ID: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> Seems our own Tim Fabrizio is this week?s media darling. In addition to his television appearance last evening on PBS (by the way Tim, you looked marvelous!) be sure to get your copy of the August issue of Victorian Homes magazine (on newsstands today). He is interviewed on page 70 in an article titled ?Solid Gold?. Tim, you are solid gold! Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From dan at old-phonographs.com Tue Jun 23 12:04:38 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Tue Jun 23 12:04:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! In-Reply-To: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> References: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: I really enjoyed the History Detectives last night. Tim's segment was fun and brought a nice conclusion to the mystery. Great job Tim! Dan 2009/6/23 Jay Horenstein > Seems our own Tim Fabrizio is this week?s media darling. In addition to > his > television appearance last evening on PBS (by the way Tim, you looked > marvelous!) be sure to get your copy of the August issue of Victorian > Homes > magazine (on newsstands today). He is interviewed on page 70 in an > article > titled ?Solid Gold?. Tim, you are solid gold! > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 > 6:22 AM > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From jimcip at earthlink.net Tue Jun 23 18:51:58 2009 From: jimcip at earthlink.net (jimcip@earthlink.net) Date: Tue Jun 23 18:52:05 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear Message-ID: <380-22009632415158515@earthlink.net> The instructions for the Thorens Excelda suggest that two records be clamped to the minute turntable. The extra record will add weight & act as a flywheel to somewhat stabalize the rotation. Jim Cartwright Immortal Performances jimcip@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Bob > To: > Date: 21-Jun-2009 10:33:52 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear > > I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well but am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad that it makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute hesitations that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound quality. The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with the worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try to build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this because I think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease off of it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out with sand paper. To try to build up any areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be rotating at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this technique or any other technique that you think will solve the problem. Thanks > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Srsells1 at aol.com Tue Jun 23 21:14:58 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Tue Jun 23 21:16:00 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) Message-ID: In a message dated 6/23/2009 1:42:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jay.horenstein@gmail.com writes: Seems our own Tim Fabrizio is this week?s media darling. In addition to his television appearance last evening on PBS (by the way Tim, you looked marvelous!) be sure to get your copy of the August issue of Victorian Homes magazine (on newsstands today). He is interviewed on page 70 in an article titled ?Solid Gold?. Tim, you are solid gold! My God! It's already on Ebay for $7.00 or so PPD. _August 2009 Victorian Homes Magazine Vol. 28 No. 5 - eBay (item 200349794614 end time Jul-05-09 15:51:54 PDT)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/August-2009-Victorian-Homes-Magazine-Vol.-28-No.-5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQimsfpZTL090606132003r161 11QQitemZ200349794614QQsalenotsupported) The articles are Not on the mag's website yet though. Steve **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From john9ten at pacbell.net Tue Jun 23 22:34:59 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Tue Jun 23 22:35:07 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) Message-ID: <912579.87188.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Rats, I missed it - will it be replayed anytime, Tim? Or is an internet streaming vid available? --- On Tue, 6/23/09, Srsells1@aol.com wrote: From: Srsells1@aol.com Subject: Re: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Tuesday, June 23, 2009, 9:14 PM In a message dated 6/23/2009 1:42:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jay.horenstein@gmail.com writes: Seems? our own Tim Fabrizio is this week?s media darling.? In addition to his television appearance last evening on PBS (by the way Tim, you? looked marvelous!) be sure to get your copy of the? August issue of? Victorian Homes magazine (on newsstands today).? He is? interviewed? on page 70 in an article titled ?Solid Gold?.? Tim,? you are solid gold! My God! It's already on Ebay for $7.00 or so PPD. _August? 2009 Victorian Homes Magazine Vol. 28 No. 5 - eBay (item 200349794614 end time? Jul-05-09 15:51:54 PDT)_ (http://cgi.ebay.com/August-2009-Victorian-Homes-Magazine-Vol.-28-No.-5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQimsfpZTL090606132003r161 11QQitemZ200349794614QQsalenotsupported) The articles are Not on the mag's website yet though. Steve **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Kuglarb at wmconnect.com Wed Jun 24 03:01:26 2009 From: Kuglarb at wmconnect.com (Kuglarb@wmconnect.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 03:06:59 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? Message-ID: The reason why we will not see young collectors in the future is the lack of interest and the cost of collecting. The price, like housing has just ballooned over the years. It's insane when the asking priced for an original crank for a Victor I phonograph is $125.00! I believe the prices have just about topped out. Most sellers, however, are not getting what they used to. Many dealers are taking items back home with them if they are not willing to 'deal'. No, there are not many young collectors out there. For one, the interest is not there, and secondly, and sadly, they will not have the cash for such toys. In the end, and it is just my opinion, our collections not be the sought after 'gems' that we adore, but 'things' of the past that may or may not be bought at flea markets or yard sells. I hope that the phonographs in my collection that my children do not want will be donated to a museum so that future generations will know what a 'phonograph' is and know some sort of history. You would have a look long and hard for any young person that can tell you something about Thomas Edison. I bet one would search the world over to find a young person today who knows who Eldridge Johnson is. Sadly, I don't have the same optimism about the future of this great hobby of phonograph collecting. The positive side is if there is a young collector out there in the next 20 years or so, he may be able to buy a nice antique phonograph without having to refinance his home. Take care. Brantley From darren at ingram.fi Wed Jun 24 03:27:19 2009 From: darren at ingram.fi (D P Ingram) Date: Wed Jun 24 03:35:24 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter In-Reply-To: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> References: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <55D00A4F-427B-4B27-8230-6D4B1E3FA604@ingram.fi> Hi. Don't suppose anyone here as a copy of Vol. 1 Issue 2 of the "The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter" they could either scan, copy or loan? Published in 1972. Or any issues of the latterly published "American Phonograph Journal) Also Vol. 1 Issue 1 of "American Phonograph Journal" from 1978 would be great to have. Many thanks, Darren Ingram ? D P Ingram ? Ab Ingram Oy ? ? darren at ingram.fi ? www.ingram.fi ? ? ? MUSIC LIBRARY FINLAND - www.musiclibrary.fi ? ? +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ? +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ? +44 203 014 3839 (UK) ? ? extn 8001 ? From dan at old-phonographs.com Wed Jun 24 05:56:41 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Wed Jun 24 06:03:33 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I am not too worried about this. It is ture that it has become an older folks hobby, but that is largely because of the amount of disposable income required. I know I didn't get hooked until my mid 40s. Before that even had I been hooked on the hobby, I couldn't have bought anything. I live in Oregon and we have a pretty active collctor group out here. We have seen several new interested 30 somethings in recent years which gives me a lot of hope. We even have male members young enough they still have hair! So, I wouldn't get too worried about the hobby going away. I think it just is differernt than the days when things could be easily found at antique markets for almost nothing. Most phonographs are now in the hands of collectors and some of it cost an arm and a leg. But, as was seen as the recent Union phonograph show, things are selling quite well. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? > > The reason why we will not see young collectors in the future is the lack > of interest and the cost of collecting. The price, like housing has just > ballooned over the years. It's insane when the asking priced for an > original > crank for a Victor I phonograph is $125.00! I believe the prices have > just > about topped out. Most sellers, however, are not getting what they used > to. > Many dealers are taking items back home with them if they are not willing > to 'deal'. No, there are not many young collectors out there. For one, > the > interest is not there, and secondly, and sadly, they will not have the > cash > for such toys. In the end, and it is just my opinion, our collections not > be the sought after 'gems' that we adore, but 'things' of the past that > may > or may not be bought at flea markets or yard sells. I hope that the > phonographs in my collection that my children do not want will be donated > to a > museum so that future generations will know what a 'phonograph' is and > know some > sort of history. > > You would have a look long and hard for any young person that can tell you > something about Thomas Edison. I bet one would search the world over to > find a young person today who knows who Eldridge Johnson is. > > Sadly, I don't have the same optimism about the future of this great hobby > of phonograph collecting. The positive side is if there is a young > collector out there in the next 20 years or so, he may be able to buy a > nice antique > phonograph without having to refinance his home. > > Take care. > > Brantley > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Phonophan at aol.com Wed Jun 24 06:07:19 2009 From: Phonophan at aol.com (Phonophan@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 06:07:39 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) Message-ID: No problem, John, -- my wife tells me you can see the program on the PBS Web site. My son tells me The History Detectives have a Facebook page where you can also see the show. Looks like PBS has really covered the bases! And thanks, all, for the kind words. Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From Phonophan at aol.com Wed Jun 24 06:22:19 2009 From: Phonophan at aol.com (Phonophan@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 06:28:07 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter Message-ID: I certainly have them "somewhere" ---- but how fast can I find them?????? THERE's the rub! Please write me directly if no one else comes forward with them, I'll tear thru my files for you this weekend. Cheers, Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for the grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) From gpaul2000 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 09:13:22 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 09:20:12 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter In-Reply-To: <55D00A4F-427B-4B27-8230-6D4B1E3FA604@ingram.fi> References: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> <55D00A4F-427B-4B27-8230-6D4B1E3FA604@ingram.fi> Message-ID: <8CBC2FDD47A3EA8-894-2E3@webmail-dh08.sysops.aol.com> Darren, Sure - I can supply scans of these issues.? Just give me an email address where to send. Best, George Paul -----Original Message----- From: D P Ingram To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Wed, Jun 24, 2009 6:27 am Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter Hi. Don't suppose anyone here as a copy of Vol. 1 Issue 2 of the "The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter" they could either scan, copy or loan? Published in 1972. Or any issues of the latterly published "American Phonograph Journal)? ? Also Vol. 1 Issue 1 of "American Phonograph Journal" from 1978 would be great to have.? ? Many thanks, Darren Ingram? ? ? ? ? ? D P Ingram ? Ab Ingram Oy ?? ? darren at ingram.fi ? www.ingram.fi ?? ?? ? MUSIC LIBRARY FINLAND - www.musiclibrary.fi? ?? ? +358 6 781 0275 (FIN) ? +46 8 5511 4995 (SWE) ? +44 203 014 3839 (UK) ?? ? extn 8001? ?? ? ? ? ? _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 09:51:48 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Wed Jun 24 09:52:10 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? Message-ID: <4a4259b3.1f588c0a.321f.ffff9750@mx.google.com> Personally I?m not going to sweat the future if this hobby. I buy machines not as an investment, but because I love them and they make me feel good. I enjoy the hunt (there?s still great stuff out there to be found at unbelievably low prices), and the time spent with friends I can share my passion for collecting with. If the bulk of us are in our fifties, the hobby is good for at least another thirty or forty years. When we pass, and the market is flooded with machines, young collectors will be able to purchase them at an affordable price. Everything comes full circle. The future of the hobby may change, but it?s never going to go away. As for me, I?m just going to enjoy it for what it is today. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From john9ten at pacbell.net Wed Jun 24 09:55:41 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten@pacbell.net) Date: Wed Jun 24 09:55:48 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? Message-ID: <1498844731-1245862542-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1451571131-@bxe1231.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Hear hear!!! ------Original Message------ From: Jay Horenstein Sender: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org To: phono-l@oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? Sent: Jun 24, 2009 9:51 AM Personally I?m not going to sweat the future if this hobby. I buy machines not as an investment, but because I love them and they make me feel good. I enjoy the hunt (there?s still great stuff out there to be found at unbelievably low prices), and the time spent with friends I can share my passion for collecting with. If the bulk of us are in our fifties, the hobby is good for at least another thirty or forty years. When we pass, and the market is flooded with machines, young collectors will be able to purchase them at an affordable price. Everything comes full circle. The future of the hobby may change, but it?s never going to go away. As for me, I?m just going to enjoy it for what it is today. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From nipper27 at comcast.net Wed Jun 24 10:08:04 2009 From: nipper27 at comcast.net (Nipper) Date: Wed Jun 24 10:08:20 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? In-Reply-To: <4a4259b3.1f588c0a.321f.ffff9750@mx.google.com> References: <4a4259b3.1f588c0a.321f.ffff9750@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <2A03FDCDBD0548B6BD79B32FD9CD3794@NickPC> I feel the same way as Jay , only I will add , passing it to our kids this hobby will grow and not diminish. Nipper ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Horenstein" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:51 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? Personally I?m not going to sweat the future if this hobby. I buy machines not as an investment, but because I love them and they make me feel good. I enjoy the hunt (there?s still great stuff out there to be found at unbelievably low prices), and the time spent with friends I can share my passion for collecting with. If the bulk of us are in our fifties, the hobby is good for at least another thirty or forty years. When we pass, and the market is flooded with machines, young collectors will be able to purchase them at an affordable price. Everything comes full circle. The future of the hobby may change, but it?s never going to go away. As for me, I?m just going to enjoy it for what it is today. Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From darren at ingram.fi Wed Jun 24 11:09:33 2009 From: darren at ingram.fi (D P Ingram) Date: Wed Jun 24 11:16:10 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <932E4E35-2AE5-40AD-852E-B93119F4D176@ingram.fi> Thanks. George Paul has offered the scans to save you going through your piles (A feeling I know, hence now finding out the issues I don't have (so far). :) Darren On 24.6.2009, at 16.22, Phonophan@aol.com wrote: > I certainly have them "somewhere" ---- but how fast can I find > them?????? > THERE's the rub! Please write me directly if no one else comes > forward with > them, I'll tear thru my files for you this weekend. Cheers, > > Tim Fabrizio > phonophan > PO Box 747 > Henrietta, NY 14467 From darren at ingram.fi Wed Jun 24 11:08:37 2009 From: darren at ingram.fi (D P Ingram) Date: Wed Jun 24 11:16:43 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The American Phonograph Collecting Society Newsletter In-Reply-To: <8CBC2FDD47A3EA8-894-2E3@webmail-dh08.sysops.aol.com> References: <4a411404.08b38c0a.7fc5.ffffbc5a@mx.google.com> <55D00A4F-427B-4B27-8230-6D4B1E3FA604@ingram.fi> <8CBC2FDD47A3EA8-894-2E3@webmail-dh08.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <98AD6A16-FFF2-42F7-8F82-C50D561E447E@ingram.fi> Thanks. Darren at ingram dot fi. Appreciate your assistance. Darren On 24.6.2009, at 19.13, gpaul2000@aol.com wrote: > > Darren, > > Sure - I can supply scans of these issues. Just give me an email > address where to send. > > Best, > George Paul > > > > ? D P Ingram ? Ab Ingram Oy ? From loran at oldcrank.com Wed Jun 24 11:50:10 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Wed Jun 24 11:50:13 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <050D6832-C704-4F08-90C5-356C22176C09@oldcrank.com> Even us older OTAPS members have hair, Dan. We can't help it if you and Jerry are follicly challenged! Loran On Jun 24, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Daniel Melvin wrote: > We even have male members young enough they still have hair! From dan at old-phonographs.com Wed Jun 24 12:26:31 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Wed Jun 24 12:27:02 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? In-Reply-To: <050D6832-C704-4F08-90C5-356C22176C09@oldcrank.com> References: <050D6832-C704-4F08-90C5-356C22176C09@oldcrank.com> Message-ID: Well, you maybe... Not too many others :) Jay H. and I had a laugh after seeing pictures from a recnet OTAPS meeting that it was a good thing we had some younger members with hair. The picture was pretty telling. Virtually eveyone except for the under 40 crowd in that picture were pretty bald. Dan On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Loran Hughes wrote: > Even us older OTAPS members have hair, Dan. We can't help it if you and > Jerry are follicly challenged! > > Loran > > On Jun 24, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Daniel Melvin wrote: > > We even have male members young enough they still have hair! >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Wed Jun 24 12:39:53 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Wed Jun 24 12:39:49 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? References: <4a4259b3.1f588c0a.321f.ffff9750@mx.google.com> <2A03FDCDBD0548B6BD79B32FD9CD3794@NickPC> Message-ID: That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of the hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? The only thing in my collection that my kids (in their 40's now) care anything about is a Wurlitzer 1015 jukebox! And if anyone wonders about this hobby, what do you think about music boxes? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nipper" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 1:08 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? >I feel the same way as Jay , only I will add , passing it to our kids this >hobby will grow and not diminish. > > Nipper > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jay Horenstein" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 9:51 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? > > > Personally I?m not going to sweat the future if this hobby. I buy > machines > not as an investment, but because I love them and they make me feel good. > I > enjoy the hunt (there?s still great stuff out there to be found at > unbelievably low prices), and the time spent with friends I can share my > passion for collecting with. If the bulk of us are in our fifties, the > hobby is good for at least another thirty or forty years. When we pass, > and > the market is flooded with machines, young collectors will be able to > purchase them at an affordable price. Everything comes full circle. The > future of the hobby may change, but it?s never going to go away. As for > me, > I?m just going to enjoy it for what it is today. > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: > 5/21/2009 > 6:22 AM > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 13:01:29 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 13:07:04 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? Message-ID: hi all and tim love the phongraph doll the rolfs made up of you for union its a treasure for our friend who bought it zono In a message dated 6/24/2009 2:53:42 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, loran@oldcrank.com writes: Even us older OTAPS members have hair, Dan. We can't help it if you and Jerry are follicly challenged! Loran On Jun 24, 2009, at 5:56 AM, Daniel Melvin wrote: > We even have male members young enough they still have hair! _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************Huge Savings on Popular Laptops only at Dell.com. Shop Now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221900667x1201409530/aol?redir=http: %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910242%3B38350777%3Bf) From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Wed Jun 24 12:58:22 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Wed Jun 24 13:08:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? Message-ID: hi all its sad for this to happen but it did to the music boxes too In a message dated 6/24/2009 9:04:24 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, dan@old-phonographs.com writes: I am not too worried about this. It is ture that it has become an older folks hobby, but that is largely because of the amount of disposable income required. I know I didn't get hooked until my mid 40s. Before that even had I been hooked on the hobby, I couldn't have bought anything. I live in Oregon and we have a pretty active collctor group out here. We have seen several new interested 30 somethings in recent years which gives me a lot of hope. We even have male members young enough they still have hair! So, I wouldn't get too worried about the hobby going away. I think it just is differernt than the days when things could be easily found at antique markets for almost nothing. Most phonographs are now in the hands of collectors and some of it cost an arm and a leg. But, as was seen as the recent Union phonograph show, things are selling quite well. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 3:01 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors? > > The reason why we will not see young collectors in the future is the lack > of interest and the cost of collecting. The price, like housing has just > ballooned over the years. It's insane when the asking priced for an > original > crank for a Victor I phonograph is $125.00! I believe the prices have > just > about topped out. Most sellers, however, are not getting what they used > to. > Many dealers are taking items back home with them if they are not willing > to 'deal'. No, there are not many young collectors out there. For one, > the > interest is not there, and secondly, and sadly, they will not have the > cash > for such toys. In the end, and it is just my opinion, our collections not > be the sought after 'gems' that we adore, but 'things' of the past that > may > or may not be bought at flea markets or yard sells. I hope that the > phonographs in my collection that my children do not want will be donated > to a > museum so that future generations will know what a 'phonograph' is and > know some > sort of history. > > You would have a look long and hard for any young person that can tell you > something about Thomas Edison. I bet one would search the world over to > find a young person today who knows who Eldridge Johnson is. > > Sadly, I don't have the same optimism about the future of this great hobby > of phonograph collecting. The positive side is if there is a young > collector out there in the next 20 years or so, he may be able to buy a > nice antique > phonograph without having to refinance his home. > > Take care. > > Brantley > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************Huge Savings on Popular Laptops only at Dell.com. Shop Now! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221900667x1201409530/aol?redir=http: %2F%2Fad.doubleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910242%3B38350777%3Bf) From msprinzen at juno.com Wed Jun 24 12:58:02 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (Merle Sprinzen) Date: Wed Jun 24 13:11:46 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) Message-ID: <20090624.160305.4460.20.msprinzen@juno.com> And here's a link to the show: http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438 On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:07:19 EDT Phonophan@aol.com writes: > No problem, John, -- my wife tells me you can see the program on the > PBS > Web site. My son tells me The History Detectives have a Facebook > page where > you can also see the show. Looks like PBS has really covered the > bases! > > And thanks, all, for the kind words. > > Tim Fabrizio > phonophan > PO Box 747 > Henrietta, NY 14467 > > TEL 585 582 1586 > FAX 585 582 2624 > Web site: www.phonophan.com > **************Make your summer sizzle with fast and easy recipes for > the > grill. (http://food.aol.com/grilling?ncid=emlcntusfood00000004) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > ____________________________________________________________ Criminal Lawyers - Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTOVoMmSfislRP2Al5QGTDn0sg6MFlZtDcxRqbeJFnzFLcpMYEryPu/ From loran at oldcrank.com Wed Jun 24 13:34:31 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Wed Jun 24 13:34:34 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) In-Reply-To: <20090624.160305.4460.20.msprinzen@juno.com> References: <20090624.160305.4460.20.msprinzen@juno.com> Message-ID: Nicely done, Tim! Loran On Jun 24, 2009, at 12:58 PM, Merle Sprinzen wrote: > And here's a link to the show: > http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438 > > On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:07:19 EDT Phonophan@aol.com writes: >> No problem, John, -- my wife tells me you can see the program on the >> PBS >> Web site. My son tells me The History Detectives have a Facebook >> page where >> you can also see the show. Looks like PBS has really covered the >> bases! >> >> And thanks, all, for the kind words. >> >> Tim Fabrizio >> phonophan >> PO Box 747 >> Henrietta, NY 14467 >> >> TEL 585 582 1586 >> FAX 585 582 2624 >> Web site: www.phonophan.com From nipper at dataex.com Wed Jun 24 18:39:09 2009 From: nipper at dataex.com (Robin Rolfs) Date: Wed Jun 24 18:39:20 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Rare Dancing Toy!) References: <20090624.160305.4460.20.msprinzen@juno.com> Message-ID: Just when you think that all the Psychobabble was fading away, another Fabrizio video has been "exposed." It takes place at the greatest phonograph show in the country. Despite what some fuddy-duddies say about aging collectors, lack of enthusiasm, poor attendance, lousy sales, we are here to say that the 2009 Union Show was one of our best. Gate attendance was up and there were a surprising number of new faces among the attendees and many were younger, interested folks who stopped to ask questions and inquire about facets of the hobby. The enjoyment of seeing friends from across the country and world make this the most enjoyable event of the year. When some shows pack up and leave by noon on Sunday, Union is still active. In fact, Scott Corbett had to demonstrate to Joan, a rare dancing toy that he picked up on the way to Union. SEE IT HERE: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej12Ol6pMcQ Enjoy! Robin & Joan Rolfs Visit us at: www.audioantique.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merle Sprinzen" To: Cc: Sent: Wednesday, June 24, 2009 2:58 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] But wait there's more! (Victorian mag) > And here's a link to the show: > http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438 > > On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 09:07:19 EDT Phonophan@aol.com writes: >> No problem, John, -- my wife tells me you can see the program on the >> PBS >> Web site. My son tells me The History Detectives have a Facebook >> page where >> you can also see the show. Looks like PBS has really covered the >> bases! >> >> And thanks, all, for the kind words. >> >> Tim Fabrizio >> phonophan >> PO Box 747 >> Henrietta, NY 14467 From Phonophan at aol.com Thu Jun 25 09:36:49 2009 From: Phonophan at aol.com (Phonophan@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 25 09:46:07 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's MORE Psycho-Phonery Message-ID: Not to continue to flog a dead horse, but if anyone is wondering how to see the Psycho-Phone episode, they can go to _http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438_ (http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438) Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) From john9ten at pacbell.net Thu Jun 25 10:42:47 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten@pacbell.net) Date: Thu Jun 25 10:42:52 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's MORE Psycho-Phonery Message-ID: <657923544-1245951765-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1197757316-@bxe1231.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Thanks Tim, it was great! ------Original Message------ From: Phonophan@aol.com Sender: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org To: phono-l@oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] But wait there's MORE Psycho-Phonery Sent: Jun 25, 2009 9:36 AM Not to continue to flog a dead horse, but if anyone is wondering how to see the Psycho-Phone episode, they can go to _http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438_ (http://www.pbs.org/video/video/1143720703/program/1138014438) Tim Fabrizio phonophan PO Box 747 Henrietta, NY 14467 TEL 585 582 1586 FAX 585 582 2624 Web site: www.phonophan.com **************Shop Popular Dell Laptops now starting at $349! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222031056x1201446063/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.dou bleclick.net%2Fclk%3B215910283%3B38350812%3Ba) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From Srsells1 at aol.com Thu Jun 25 21:06:00 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Thu Jun 25 21:06:43 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! Message-ID: In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of the hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL below. If everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the results. Steve Ramm _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $20. Take a Peek! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) From drgregc at msn.com Fri Jun 26 04:48:53 2009 From: drgregc at msn.com (gregory caringi) Date: Fri Jun 26 04:54:50 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I have two daughters, 23 & 25. They share many of the same interests as myself - music, photography - but never have shown any interest in the phonograph collection. They admit to being embarrassed when I give guests "the tour." I like to play the machines during the holidays when they are home. They usually object. Their only interest is preserving one machine each in my demise - the younger wants my VV-XVII since she helped clean it up, and the older wants my Columbia BD because the big nickel horn is "pretty." The hobby is in trouble! Greg Caringi > From: Srsells1@aol.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: > > That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of > the > hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: > 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and > 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? > > > In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL below. If > everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the > results. > > Steve Ramm > > _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ > (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) > **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile > device for under $20. Take a Peek! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From dan at old-phonographs.com Fri Jun 26 05:48:20 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Fri Jun 26 05:48:36 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> Personally, I don't think too many collectors have other family members that are interested. I would say in my experience it is not normally the case to have interested family member. Perhaps tolerant, but rarely interested. That doesn't mean there are not new collectors out there. Having kids to turn a collection over to isn't necessary for the hobbly to succeed. Consider your personal situation when you got interested collecting phonographs. It's rather unusual for it to have involved a family member directly. But of course that happens too. I have a lot of good collector friends and a few of them are young enough they will take up the torch when I'm dust. I'm not worried at all. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "gregory caringi" To: "phono-l" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! I have two daughters, 23 & 25. They share many of the same interests as myself - music, photography - but never have shown any interest in the phonograph collection. They admit to being embarrassed when I give guests "the tour." I like to play the machines during the holidays when they are home. They usually object. Their only interest is preserving one machine each in my demise - the younger wants my VV-XVII since she helped clean it up, and the older wants my Columbia BD because the big nickel horn is "pretty." The hobby is in trouble! Greg Caringi > From: Srsells1@aol.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: > > That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of > the > hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: > 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and > 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? > > > In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL below. If > everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the > results. > > Steve Ramm > > _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ > (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) > **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile > device for under $20. Take a Peek! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From glastris at comcast.net Fri Jun 26 06:29:18 2009 From: glastris at comcast.net (George Glastris) Date: Fri Jun 26 06:29:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> Message-ID: <09AA8897B9A84E1BB9B48A8649A47D56@GLASTRISPC> In my professional experience, family members only show interest when the owner has died or decides to sell the collection. More times than I care to remember family members who've NEVER shown an interest in the collection all of a sudden want to keep one or more items, and more often than not, they are the best and/or the most expensive items. One time I was auctioning a fine collection of scientific instruments for a gentleman. His kids were told to say what they wanted. Well, the daughter had put her name on ALL the best pieces. Thankfully his wife walked around the house with me and wasn't happy and kept taking her name off the pieces saying "She can't have that. She can't have that one either!" Another time a family of a late musical box collector who always regretted the fact that they would not share in his hobby started taking everything they could once it was decided to sell. They kept coming back for more even as the collection was being packed. And of course they had to take things for the grandchildren too. What's even funnier is how quickly family members know what are the best pieces in a collection when they've never spent any time with it!!! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Melvin" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > Personally, I don't think too many collectors have other family members > that are interested. I would say in my experience it is not normally the > case to have interested family member. Perhaps tolerant, but rarely > interested. That doesn't mean there are not new collectors out there. > Having kids to turn a collection over to isn't necessary for the hobbly to > succeed. Consider your personal situation when you got interested > collecting phonographs. It's rather unusual for it to have involved a > family member directly. But of course that happens too. > > I have a lot of good collector friends and a few of them are young enough > they will take up the torch when I'm dust. I'm not worried at all. > > Dan > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "gregory caringi" > To: "phono-l" > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:48 AM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > > > > I have two daughters, 23 & 25. They share many of the same interests as > myself - music, photography - but never have shown any interest in the > phonograph collection. They admit to being embarrassed when I give guests > "the tour." I like to play the machines during the holidays when they are > home. They usually object. Their only interest is preserving one machine > each in my demise - the younger wants my VV-XVII since she helped clean it > up, and the older wants my Columbia BD because the big nickel horn is > "pretty." The hobby is in trouble! > > > > Greg Caringi > >> From: Srsells1@aol.com >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:00 -0400 >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> >> >> In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >> wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: >> >> That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of >> the >> hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: >> 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and >> 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? >> >> >> In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL below. If >> everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the >> results. >> >> Steve Ramm >> >> _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ >> (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) >> **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile >> device for under $20. Take a Peek! >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From bubba2u at optonline.net Fri Jun 26 07:41:13 2009 From: bubba2u at optonline.net (Alan Wohl) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:09:23 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> Message-ID: <8A6BD4935897401895DDA10A59A8B9F6@Daisy> I recently had a visit from my next door neighbor that I grew up with over to my house. He brought his twenty year old son with him. His eyes were wide open as I showed him how an Edison cylinder machine works. I played "Roll on Missouri" and when the first deep tones of the vocal came booming out of the wood cygnet horn, he was surprised to hear how clear and loud it was on this hundred year old phonograph. He wanted to see more as he didn't know that these things ever existed. I demonstrated my Edison C19 and explained the difference between vertical and lateral records then moved on to my Victor V. I have the whole tour of my collection memorized in my head and I can tell how interested people are by how they listen to the machines. If they get a bit jumpy then I wrap it up fast. He wanted to see everything. I explained how electrical recording started while playing my Crendenza then we went on to some of my early jukes. It's rare that I have someone look at my collection that is interested in seeing the whole thing. The "punchline" to my story came at the very end of the tour when we ended up at my "modern" stereo equipment. He was looking at my Thorens turntable that I bought new in 1986 to play my 78s and LPs. This was the first turntable that he had ever seen. This really made me feel old and it put things in perspective. I wonder when he is 51 and a 20 year old visits his collection of antique phonographs which will have Edison, Victor, Columbia, and Thorens. Will this young visitor look at his CD player and question what it is? Al From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 08:19:06 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:19:33 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> Message-ID: <4a44e6ff.08b38c0a.23d4.619a@mx.google.com> I think that keeping it all in the family is a terrible waste. God bless those children who sell off all their parents treasures! How can we expect the hobby to grow if there are no machines out there in circulation? Phonographs, if you will pardon the expression, are like manure; They should be spread around encouraging young collectors to grow. Dumping a bunch of machines in a kids lap doesn't make him/her a collector. Where's the thrill of the hunt, the heart pounding discovery, the pride of doing things yourself? Also, it may be time for us to sell off some of our duplicates, give others without one a chance to enjoy. Having six or ten of the same machine doesn't make ones collection more interesting. So cast your bread brothers. Jay -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Daniel Melvin Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 5:48 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! Personally, I don't think too many collectors have other family members that are interested. I would say in my experience it is not normally the case to have interested family member. Perhaps tolerant, but rarely interested. That doesn't mean there are not new collectors out there. Having kids to turn a collection over to isn't necessary for the hobbly to succeed. Consider your personal situation when you got interested collecting phonographs. It's rather unusual for it to have involved a family member directly. But of course that happens too. I have a lot of good collector friends and a few of them are young enough they will take up the torch when I'm dust. I'm not worried at all. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "gregory caringi" To: "phono-l" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:48 AM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! I have two daughters, 23 & 25. They share many of the same interests as myself - music, photography - but never have shown any interest in the phonograph collection. They admit to being embarrassed when I give guests "the tour." I like to play the machines during the holidays when they are home. They usually object. Their only interest is preserving one machine each in my demise - the younger wants my VV-XVII since she helped clean it up, and the older wants my Columbia BD because the big nickel horn is "pretty." The hobby is in trouble! Greg Caringi > From: Srsells1@aol.com > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:00 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > > > In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: > > That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the future of > the > hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll of: > 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and > 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? > > > In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL below. If > everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the > results. > > Steve Ramm > > _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ > (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) > **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile > device for under $20. Take a Peek! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=htt p://www.getpeek.com/aol) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From glastris at comcast.net Fri Jun 26 08:20:40 2009 From: glastris at comcast.net (George Glastris) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:22:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? In-Reply-To: <8A6BD4935897401895DDA10A59A8B9F6@Daisy> References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> <8A6BD4935897401895DDA10A59A8B9F6@Daisy> Message-ID: > The "punchline" to my story came at the very end of the tour when we ended > up at my "modern" stereo equipment. He was looking at my Thorens > turntable that I bought new in 1986 to play my 78s and LPs. This was the > first turntable that he had ever seen. You think that's bad.... On a trip to family in Greece last year we were staying in an old farm house. My 18 year old niece went to make a phone call, looked at the rotary dial and said "How does I do it?" From barry at barrykasindorf.com Fri Jun 26 07:56:38 2009 From: barry at barrykasindorf.com (Barry Kasindorf) Date: Fri Jun 26 08:30:38 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <09AA8897B9A84E1BB9B48A8649A47D56@GLASTRISPC> References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC> <09AA8897B9A84E1BB9B48A8649A47D56@GLASTRISPC> Message-ID: <4A44E1A6.2060701@barrykasindorf.com> It is unfortunate, but they really don't care about the antiques at all mostly, just see $$ for themselves. They go Google or look at Ebay and decide what is best to take so they can sell it. -Barry George Glastris wrote: > In my professional experience, family members only show interest when > the owner has died or decides to sell the collection. > > More times than I care to remember family members who've NEVER shown > an interest in the collection all of a sudden want to keep one or more > items, and more often than not, they are the best and/or the most > expensive items. > > One time I was auctioning a fine collection of scientific instruments > for a gentleman. His kids were told to say what they wanted. Well, > the daughter had put her name on ALL the best pieces. Thankfully his > wife walked around the house with me and wasn't happy and kept taking > her name off the pieces saying "She can't have that. She can't have > that one either!" > > Another time a family of a late musical box collector who always > regretted the fact that they would not share in his hobby started > taking everything they could once it was decided to sell. They kept > coming back for more even as the collection was being packed. And of > course they had to take things for the grandchildren too. > > What's even funnier is how quickly family members know what are the > best pieces in a collection when they've never spent any time with it!!! > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Melvin" > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 7:48 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > > >> Personally, I don't think too many collectors have other family >> members that are interested. I would say in my experience it is not >> normally the case to have interested family member. Perhaps tolerant, >> but rarely interested. That doesn't mean there are not new collectors >> out there. Having kids to turn a collection over to isn't necessary >> for the hobbly to succeed. Consider your personal situation when you >> got interested collecting phonographs. It's rather unusual for it to >> have involved a family member directly. But of course that happens too. >> >> I have a lot of good collector friends and a few of them are young >> enough they will take up the torch when I'm dust. I'm not worried at >> all. >> >> Dan >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "gregory caringi" >> To: "phono-l" >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:48 AM >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! >> >> >> >> I have two daughters, 23 & 25. They share many of the same interests >> as myself - music, photography - but never have shown any interest in >> the phonograph collection. They admit to being embarrassed when I >> give guests "the tour." I like to play the machines during the >> holidays when they are home. They usually object. Their only >> interest is preserving one machine each in my demise - the younger >> wants my VV-XVII since she helped clean it up, and the older wants my >> Columbia BD because the big nickel horn is "pretty." The hobby is in >> trouble! >> >> >> >> Greg Caringi >> >>> From: Srsells1@aol.com >>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:06:00 -0400 >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! >>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 6/24/2009 3:40:43 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: >>> >>> That's all very nice, and it's good to be optimistic about the >>> future of >>> the >>> hobby. It would be interesting if someone or group would take a poll >>> of: >>> 1. How many phonograph collectors have children?, and >>> 2. How many of these children are interested in the collections? >>> >>> >>> In answer to Ray's question, I posted a quick survey at the URL >>> below. If >>> everyone will answer it (it's confidential), I'll be happy to share the >>> results. >>> >>> Steve Ramm >>> >>> _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ >>> (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) >>> **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great >>> mobile >>> device for under $20. Take a Peek! >>> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Srsells1 at aol.com Fri Jun 26 09:20:32 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 26 09:22:35 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update Message-ID: So far 25 folks "looked" at the survey but only 17 answered the few simple questions. I realized after setting it up that the last question should have had a Non-applicable option, but Zoomerang doesn't let you change survey in their FREE version. I'll leave survey open until Tuesday and then close it and share the results. So if you haven't answered it yet, make your vote "count". Not sure how many members Phono-L has. Have a great weekend all. Steve Ramm **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $20. Take a Peek! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) From nipper27 at comcast.net Fri Jun 26 09:53:18 2009 From: nipper27 at comcast.net (Nipper) Date: Fri Jun 26 09:53:55 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? In-Reply-To: References: <68DF9454A7884213826DEE31E6199F8D@danPC><8A6BD4935897401895DDA10A59A8B9F6@Daisy> Message-ID: I See a fellow Greek , Yasou Georgo ( I will like to ad that my Kids Yet young , already have a trust naming each and every machine belonging to each of my Kids , George my youngest loves all my Victor changers and horn machines Michael 15 loves the uprights , I will have to say from what I am reading I am blest twice , hehehe . Ps. Both my boys do help me clean repair and hunt ( Nikolis Manolakis Nipper ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Glastris" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? >> The "punchline" to my story came at the very end of the tour when we >> ended up at my "modern" stereo equipment. He was looking at my Thorens >> turntable that I bought new in 1986 to play my 78s and LPs. This was the >> first turntable that he had ever seen. > > > You think that's bad.... > > On a trip to family in Greece last year we were staying in an old farm > house. My 18 year old niece went to make a phone call, looked at the > rotary dial and said "How does I do it?" > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Fri Jun 26 09:57:42 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Fri Jun 26 10:01:01 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? Message-ID: it is so true i showed my collection to a 13 year old niece and she did not know what a phonograph was let alone a turntable with 33 1/3 records and music boxes totally left her In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:13:20 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bubba2u@optonline.net writes: I recently had a visit from my next door neighbor that I grew up with over to my house. He brought his twenty year old son with him. His eyes were wide open as I showed him how an Edison cylinder machine works. I played "Roll on Missouri" and when the first deep tones of the vocal came booming out of the wood cygnet horn, he was surprised to hear how clear and loud it was on this hundred year old phonograph. He wanted to see more as he didn't know that these things ever existed. I demonstrated my Edison C19 and explained the difference between vertical and lateral records then moved on to my Victor V. I have the whole tour of my collection memorized in my head and I can tell how interested people are by how they listen to the machines. If they get a bit jumpy then I wrap it up fast. He wanted to see everything. I explained how electrical recording started while playing my Crendenza then we went on to some of my early jukes. It's rare that I have someone look at my collection that is interested in seeing the whole thing. The "punchline" to my story came at the very end of the tour when we ended up at my "modern" stereo equipment. He was looking at my Thorens turntable that I bought new in 1986 to play my 78s and LPs. This was the first turntable that he had ever seen. This really made me feel old and it put things in perspective. I wonder when he is 51 and a 20 year old visits his collection of antique phonographs which will have Edison, Victor, Columbia, and Thorens. Will this young visitor look at his CD player and question what it is? Al _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile device for under $20. Take a Peek! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 26 10:10:49 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Fri Jun 26 10:10:34 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update References: Message-ID: <2A650566CD124066A00CCE5E677A5E11@Wilenzick> Thanks Steve for setting this up, as the results will be interesting to all of us. Hopefully we can get at least 100 responses from Phono-L. Also, would it be fruitful to expand to Phonolist members, asking members of both lists not to duplicate the survey? Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:20 PM Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update > So far 25 folks "looked" at the survey but only 17 answered the few simple > questions. I realized after setting it up that the last question should > have had a Non-applicable option, but Zoomerang doesn't let you change > survey > in their FREE version. > > I'll leave survey open until Tuesday and then close it and share the > results. So if you haven't answered it yet, make your vote "count". > > Not sure how many members Phono-L has. > > Have a great weekend all. > > Steve Ramm > **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile > device for under $20. Take a Peek! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From dan at old-phonographs.com Fri Jun 26 11:06:44 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Fri Jun 26 11:13:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update In-Reply-To: <2A650566CD124066A00CCE5E677A5E11@Wilenzick> References: <2A650566CD124066A00CCE5E677A5E11@Wilenzick> Message-ID: I answered the survey, but I don't really understand the point of it. Having kids that want your collection is not a realistic or necessary thing to keep the hobby going. But, it will be interesting to see the results I guess. On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Raymond Wilenzick wrote: > Thanks Steve for setting this up, as the results will be interesting to all > of us. Hopefully we can get at least 100 responses from Phono-L. Also, > would it be fruitful to expand to Phonolist members, asking members of both > lists not to duplicate the survey? > > Ray > > ----- Original Message ----- From: > To: > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:20 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update > > > So far 25 folks "looked" at the survey but only 17 answered the few simple >> questions. I realized after setting it up that the last question should >> have had a Non-applicable option, but Zoomerang doesn't let you change >> survey >> in their FREE version. >> >> I'll leave survey open until Tuesday and then close it and share the >> results. So if you haven't answered it yet, make your vote "count". >> >> Not sure how many members Phono-L has. >> >> Have a great weekend all. >> >> Steve Ramm >> **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile >> device for under $20. Take a Peek! >> ( >> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol >> ) >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From appywander at hotmail.com Fri Jun 26 11:43:10 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Fri Jun 26 11:43:16 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors Message-ID: Three years ago I was asked to give a talk about the original Carter Family after a film about them was shown at Eastern Kentucky University, my alma mater. The room was nearly full, probably a couple of hundred students. I started my talk by asking how many people in the room had ever played a vinyl LP record -- I figured that would be an easy place for their age group to reference in relation to where I would eventually go with my talk (78's and the impact of early electrical recording). I was astounded when only two of the kids out of two-hundred had ever played a record! Boy, did I feel old! (I was 'only' 49 at the time!) John M From wilenzick at bellsouth.net Fri Jun 26 11:57:54 2009 From: wilenzick at bellsouth.net (Raymond Wilenzick) Date: Fri Jun 26 11:57:42 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update References: <2A650566CD124066A00CCE5E677A5E11@Wilenzick> Message-ID: Oh, there's no point to it really; it's just having a little fun.. Just something to keep the hobby interesting, and possibly to stimulate some discussion on the list. Ray ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Melvin" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 2:06 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update >I answered the survey, but I don't really understand the point of it. >Having > kids that want your collection is not a realistic or necessary thing to > keep > the hobby going. But, it will be interesting to see the results I guess. > > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Raymond Wilenzick > > wrote: > >> Thanks Steve for setting this up, as the results will be interesting to >> all >> of us. Hopefully we can get at least 100 responses from Phono-L. Also, >> would it be fruitful to expand to Phonolist members, asking members of >> both >> lists not to duplicate the survey? >> >> Ray >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: >> To: >> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 12:20 PM >> Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update >> >> >> So far 25 folks "looked" at the survey but only 17 answered the few >> simple >>> questions. I realized after setting it up that the last question should >>> have had a Non-applicable option, but Zoomerang doesn't let you change >>> survey >>> in their FREE version. >>> >>> I'll leave survey open until Tuesday and then close it and share the >>> results. So if you haven't answered it yet, make your vote "count". >>> >>> Not sure how many members Phono-L has. >>> >>> Have a great weekend all. >>> >>> Steve Ramm >>> **************Stay connected and tighten your budget with a great mobile >>> device for under $20. Take a Peek! >>> ( >>> http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100122638x1222405996x1201457362/aol?redir=http://www.getpeek.com/aol >>> ) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 13:18:34 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Fri Jun 26 13:19:05 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4a452d30.16538c0a.1cc0.4518@mx.google.com> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables are used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in almost every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the CD. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of John Maeder Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:43 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors Three years ago I was asked to give a talk about the original Carter Family after a film about them was shown at Eastern Kentucky University, my alma mater. The room was nearly full, probably a couple of hundred students. I started my talk by asking how many people in the room had ever played a vinyl LP record -- I figured that would be an easy place for their age group to reference in relation to where I would eventually go with my talk (78's and the impact of early electrical recording). I was astounded when only two of the kids out of two-hundred had ever played a record! Boy, did I feel old! (I was 'only' 49 at the time!) John M _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 6:22 AM From appywander at hotmail.com Fri Jun 26 13:30:55 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Fri Jun 26 13:31:06 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors In-Reply-To: <4a452d30.16538c0a.1cc0.4518@mx.google.com> References: <4a452d30.16538c0a.1cc0.4518@mx.google.com> Message-ID: Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in a hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read that vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades right now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess just music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline now because of MP3 and MP4. John M > From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > > Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables are > used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in almost > every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my > guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all > their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the CD. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of John Maeder > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 11:43 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > Three years ago I was asked to give a talk about the original Carter Family > after a film about them was shown at Eastern Kentucky University, my alma > mater. The room was nearly full, probably a couple of hundred students. I > started my talk by asking how many people in the room had ever played a > vinyl LP record -- I figured that would be an easy place for their age group > to reference in relation to where I would eventually go with my talk (78's > and the impact of early electrical recording). I was astounded when only > two of the kids out of two-hundred had ever played a record! Boy, did I feel > old! (I was 'only' 49 at the time!) > > John M > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 > 6:22 AM > > > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.560 / Virus Database: 270.12.36/2126 - Release Date: 5/21/2009 > 6:22 AM > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From esroberto at hotmail.com Fri Jun 26 14:30:36 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Fri Jun 26 14:35:59 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors References: <4a452d30.16538c0a.1cc0.4518@mx.google.com> Message-ID: But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly speaking) has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record labels (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated strictly to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said it already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life canvassing for them in the 60's? The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and none of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture (thankfully). Best to all, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maeder" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in a hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read that vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades right now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess just music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline now because of MP3 and MP4. John M > From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > > Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables are > used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in > almost > every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my > guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all > their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the > CD. From phonographs at charter.net Fri Jun 26 20:09:11 2009 From: phonographs at charter.net (SM) Date: Fri Jun 26 20:46:55 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors In-Reply-To: Message-ID: I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago and found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They tended to be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they liked vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the average used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were familiar with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records. When I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the coolest thing. Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new vinyl is being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an album. Just a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music called SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but never really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few years SACD and DVD-Audio was dead. When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While there was a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. It faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young people who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems to give these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will make records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs lack and can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional sound. Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular in recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders for example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one disc, even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn of the century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you want, eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. This is proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the space used to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as well. This awaits to be seen. Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation may not have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding stereo system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All we can do is educate and share this information with these younger generations in order to keep the analog recording alive and well. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly speaking) has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record labels (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated strictly to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said it already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life canvassing for them in the 60's? The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and none of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture (thankfully). Best to all, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maeder" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in a hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read that vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades right now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess just music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline now because of MP3 and MP4. John M > From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > > Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables are > used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in > almost > every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my > guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all > their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the > CD. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisone1 at verizon.net Sat Jun 27 00:55:25 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sat Jun 27 01:55:59 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! References: Message-ID: One more question might have been included: were/are your PARENTS interested? Mine showed no interest except to discourage me from "wasting money" on phonos & records, and they still think it's an absurd pastime. My enjoyment of music which predates their parents also perplexes them. From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 02:46:12 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 02:46:27 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors Message-ID: does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and constricting the music In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, phonographs@charter.net writes: I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago and found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They tended to be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they liked vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the average used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were familiar with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records. When I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the coolest thing. Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new vinyl is being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an album. Just a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music called SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but never really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few years SACD and DVD-Audio was dead. When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While there was a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. It faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young people who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems to give these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will make records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs lack and can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional sound. Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular in recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders for example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one disc, even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn of the century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you want, eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. This is proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the space used to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as well. This awaits to be seen. Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation may not have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding stereo system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All we can do is educate and share this information with these younger generations in order to keep the analog recording alive and well. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly speaking) has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record labels (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated strictly to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said it already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life canvassing for them in the 60's? The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and none of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture (thankfully). Best to all, Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maeder" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in a hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read that vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades right now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess just music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline now because of MP3 and MP4. John M > From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > > Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables are > used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in > almost > every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my > guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all > their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the > CD. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 02:48:14 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 02:55:05 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! Message-ID: hi i agree my grandmother used to say what do you want with this junk we put it out with the trash or sent it to the dump especially when i bought expensive music boxes in the 70's what about everyone else's grandparents In a message dated 6/27/2009 4:59:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, edisone1@verizon.net writes: One more question might have been included: were/are your PARENTS interested? Mine showed no interest except to discourage me from "wasting money" on phonos & records, and they still think it's an absurd pastime. My enjoyment of music which predates their parents also perplexes them. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From ronbrink at aol.com Sat Jun 27 06:06:01 2009 From: ronbrink at aol.com (ronbrink@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 06:12:20 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com> This makes sense. Depression era folks are very "conservative" with their money and many discretionary items are considered non essential. On the other side of the spectrum is the "young" individual. I have a 23 and 25 year old. They are not into spending boat loads of money for an artifact that has basically no usefull purpose e.g. can't play 10,000 songs, displays albums covers, takes pictures, or shows you where your going all in one instrument. Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger car...etc." What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time. I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have? Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude -----Original Message----- From: Zonophone2006@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 4:48 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! hi i agree my grandmother used to say what do you want with this junk we put it out with the trash or sent it to the dump especially when i bought expensive music boxes in the 70's what about everyone else's grandparents In a message dated 6/27/2009 4:59:45 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, edisone1@verizon.net writes: One more question might have been included: were/are your PARENTS interested? Mine showed no interest except to discourage me from "wasting money" on phonos & records, and they still think it's an absurd pastime. My enjoyment of music which predates their parents also perplexes them. _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir= http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From gpaul2000 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 07:52:46 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 07:53:16 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> There's truth in the fact that people collect things (including phonographs & records) for various reasons - - their personal insecurity being only one of several possibilities.? As others have noted, some collectors are focused primarily on market value; others are concerned solely with the aesthetics of recorded performances, and/or the ability of an 80-100 year old mechanical device to faithfully recreate those performances.? Still others are immersed in the history of the artifacts they find.? It's important to realize that any or all of these motivations - as well as others - may exist in a single collector to greater or lesser degrees.? Categorizing a group of people (broadly) may sometimes be possible, but categorizing an individual is usually a trickier proposition.? The larger the group, the easier they (we) are to pigeonhole. That said, my take on this topic will be pretty safe: the worldwide interest in generalized antiques has declined since the early 1990s.? People in general are imitative.? When society once again decides that antiques are desirable, trendy, cool...whatever..., we will see a renewed interest in antique phonographs from newcomers.? Until then, those who pursue our hobby might be thought of as the "true believers" - despite their individual motivations.? These days, few of us are collecting to be hip.? But there are those other reasons...! I must admit that I don't really care what happens to market values - - I didn't/don't collect with that in mind, and I can't take it with me.? Sure, I'd like to leave my kids a nice meatball, but if it doesn't happen, that's out of my control.? When I started collecting at age 13, I honestly thought I was the only one in the world interested in this stuff.? I know better now, but that shouldn't really concern me.? Collecting for me is a personal thing, to be shared where appropriate with like-minded individuals.? I do love the hobby, but like religion, I approach it on my own terms.? If it doesn't make a positive contribution, what's the point?? And I'm not looking to convert anybody - - either they get it or they don't. I encourage each of us to enjoy what collecting brings to our lives, and to simply be thankful.? Not everyone is so fortunate. George Paul -----Original Message----- From: ronbrink@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:06 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! ? Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger car...etc."? ? What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time.? ? I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have?? ? Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude? ? From rich-mail at octoxol.com Sat Jun 27 09:00:23 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Sat Jun 27 09:00:31 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A464217.2050806@octoxol.com> Still have one and it works just fine thank you... Zonophone2006@aol.com wrote: > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and > constricting the music > > > > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > phonographs@charter.net writes: > > I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago and > found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They tended > to > be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they liked > vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the > average > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. > > Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were familiar > with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records. > When > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the coolest > thing. > > Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new vinyl is > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an album. > Just > a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music called > SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but never > really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. > Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few years > SACD > and DVD-Audio was dead. > > When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record > killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While there was > a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. It > faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young > people > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems to > give > these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will make > records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs lack and > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional sound. > > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular in > recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. > Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders for > example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one disc, > even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn of the > century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you want, > eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. This is > proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the space > used > to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as well. > This awaits to be seen. > > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation may not > have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding stereo > system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All we can > do is educate and share this information with these younger generations in > order to keep the analog recording alive and well. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) > consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the > last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly speaking) > has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record > labels > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated strictly > to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said it > already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the > pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life > canvassing for them in the 60's? > > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and none > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture (thankfully). > > Best to all, > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Maeder" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > > Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, > etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the > primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in a > hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read that > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades > right > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess just > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline > now because of MP3 and MP4. > > John M > >> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 >> >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables > are >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them >> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in >> almost >> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's my >> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the >> CD. > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > eExcfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From Srsells1 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 09:46:21 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 09:47:17 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Here is the SURVEY link again! Message-ID: A few folks said they miplaced the email with the survey link and asked for it again. So here it is: _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX) It's quick and easy and we'll get a sense of who the Phono-list group consists of (by numbers, not names). It's not too late to respond. Steve Ramm **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From Srsells1 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 09:55:08 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 10:00:55 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] The SURVEY - Update Message-ID: In a message dated 6/26/2009 1:10:56 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wilenzick@bellsouth.net writes: Thanks Steve for setting this up, as the results will be interesting to all of us. Hopefully we can get at least 100 responses from Phono-L. Also, would it be fruitful to expand to Phonolist members, asking members of both lists not to duplicate the survey? Sure! I'll do that. Steve **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) From john9ten at pacbell.net Sat Jun 27 10:42:40 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Sat Jun 27 10:42:46 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Here is the SURVEY link again! Message-ID: <345966.54242.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm sure there are many of us who don't have kids..I wonder where their collections will go. Mine is going to a fellow collector if he survives me. --- On Sat, 6/27/09, Srsells1@aol.com wrote: From: Srsells1@aol.com Subject: [Phono-L] Here is the SURVEY link again! To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Date: Saturday, June 27, 2009, 9:46 AM A few folks said they miplaced the email with the survey link and asked for it again. So here it is: _http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX_ (http://www.zoomerang.com/Survey/?p=WEB229CUDJ4UWX)? It's quick and easy and we'll get a sense of who the Phono-list group? consists of (by numbers, not names). It's not too late to respond. Steve Ramm **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun eExcfooterNO62) _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From msprinzen at juno.com Sat Jun 27 10:53:26 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (msprinzen@juno.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 10:54:45 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 Message-ID: <20090627.135326.17932.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> I'm finally getting around to updating my website (cheap plug -- www.littlewonderrecords.com) to include all the additional information I've collected over the past year or two, and could use some help. I simply don't have the reference books to get the facts, and thought one of you would be able to answer very quickly -- please don't go to a lot of trouble! And please excuse my almost complete ignorance on this topic... I've got two phonograph catalogs from Victor that are not dated. I figured I could date them by dating the phonographs advertised in them. I'm also assuming that the highest number models are the latest machines. In one catalog the highest number is an 8-30 and in the other the highest is a 10-50. Would someone mind telling me, please, whether I'm right in my assumptions about the high numbers, and if I am, what the years were when these were first manufactured? I'd be indebted. Thanks! ____________________________________________________________ Learning Centers - Click Here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTKNdOmkILR6131eTzVWkqYk1Sgih8Az3do8Tu9tR7PKL5VNDJ2Jji/ From gbogantz1 at charter.net Sat Jun 27 12:43:44 2009 From: gbogantz1 at charter.net (Greg Bogantz) Date: Sat Jun 27 12:49:50 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors References: Message-ID: <9FBE8E7FFEDB4F9483F3F1FDEF65D97B@gbhpa1514n> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for readers of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early 1930s. dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave 23 (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated chassis - the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and the RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which included the volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about 1935. Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, mostly to compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available yet). These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the invention of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally designed for the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single tube in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this tube to be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable gain element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid tubes were used for this purpose for many years until the development of solid state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though, the most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then and even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor (LDR) elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern recording engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more modern circuits. Greg Bogantz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and > constricting the music > > > > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > phonographs@charter.net writes: > > I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago > and > found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They tended > to > be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they > liked > vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the > average > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. > > Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were familiar > with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records. > When > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the coolest > thing. > > Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new vinyl > is > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an album. > Just > a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music > called > SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but never > really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. > Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few years > SACD > and DVD-Audio was dead. > > When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record > killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While there > was > a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. It > faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young > people > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems to > give > these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will make > records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs lack > and > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional sound. > > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular in > recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. > Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders for > example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one > disc, > even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn of > the > century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you want, > eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. This > is > proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the space > used > to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as > well. > This awaits to be seen. > > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation may > not > have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding stereo > system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All we > can > do is educate and share this information with these younger generations > in > order to keep the analog recording alive and well. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) > consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the > last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly > speaking) > has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record > labels > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated > strictly > to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said > it > already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the > pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life > canvassing for them in the 60's? > > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and > none > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture > (thankfully). > > Best to all, > Robert > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Maeder" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > > Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, > etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the > primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in > a > hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read > that > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades > right > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess > just > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline > now because of MP3 and MP4. > > John M > >> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 >> >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables > are >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them >> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in >> almost >> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's >> my >> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the >> CD. > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > Steps! > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > eExcfooterNO62) > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From gpaul2000 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 12:43:41 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 12:51:16 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - One Guy's Take, Without Question Marks In-Reply-To: <8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com> <8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <8CBC576B52975EC-14D4-5BB@WEBMAIL-DY12.sysops.aol.com> Sorry about the earlier post. My high school typing teacher taught us to double-space between sentences, and old habits die hard! Consequently, my earlier post came through with a distracting question mark appended to the end of nearly every sentence. Hopefully, it will make a bit more more sense now...maybe... -----Original Message----- From: gpaul2000@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 10:52 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! There's truth in the fact that people collect things (including phonographs & records) for various reasons - - their personal insecurity being only one of several possibilities. As others have noted, some collectors are focused primarily on market value; others are concerned solely with the aesthetics of recorded performances, and/or the ability of an 80-100 year old mechanical device to faithfully recreate those performances. Still others are immersed in the history of the artifacts they find. It's important to realize that any or all of these motivations - as well as others - may exist in a single collector to greater or lesser degrees. Categorizing a group of people (broadly) may sometimes be possible, but categorizing an individual is usually a trickier proposition. The larger the group, the easier they (we) are to pigeonhole. That said, my take on this topic will be pretty safe: the worldwide interest in generalized antiques has declined since the early 1990s. People in general are imitative. When society once again decides that antiques are desirable, trendy, cool...whatever..., we will see a renewed interest in antique phonographs from newcomers. Until then, those who pursue our hobby might be thought of as the "true believers" - despite their individual motivations. These days, few of us are collecting to be hip. But there are those other reasons...! I must admit that I don't really care what happens to market values - - I didn't/don't collect with that in mind, and I can't take it with me. Sure, I'd like to leave my kids a nice meatball, but if it doesn't happen, that's out of my control. When I started collecting at age 13, I honestly thought I was the only one in the world interested in this stuff. I know better now, but that shouldn't really concern me. Collecting for me is a personal thing, to be shared where appropriate with like-minded individuals. I do love the hobby, but like religion, I approach it on my own terms. If it doesn't make a positive contribution, what's the point? And I'm not looking to convert anybody - - either they get it or they don't. I encourage each of us to enjoy what collecting brings to our lives, and to simply be thankful. Not everyone is so fortunate. George Paul -----Original Message----- From: ronbrink@aol.com To: phono-l@oldcrank.org Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:06 am Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! ? Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger car...etc."? ? What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time.? ? I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have?? ? Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude? ? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From waltsommers at comcast.net Sat Jun 27 12:46:20 2009 From: waltsommers at comcast.net (Walt Sommers) Date: Sat Jun 27 12:52:02 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A46770C.4000602@comcast.net> From steve_noreen at msn.com Sat Jun 27 15:08:39 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Sat Jun 27 15:08:45 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 In-Reply-To: <20090627.135326.17932.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> References: <20090627.135326.17932.0@webmail19.dca.untd.com> Message-ID: Hello Look for the Dog here: 8-30 Credenza first shown in November 1925. 10-50 huge automatic record changer introduced in March 1927. You have never lived until you have seen one of these work in person and each one that works owes this to someone who patiently replaced all the broken pot metal parts. When the played record is discharged (violently thrown) into the specially designed holder you fully expect to find only pieces. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=victrola+10-50&search_type=&aq=f > From: msprinzen@juno.com > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:53:26 +0000 > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 > > I'm finally getting around to updating my website (cheap plug -- www.littlewonderrecords.com) to include all the additional information I've collected over the past year or two, and could use some help. I simply don't have the reference books to get the facts, and thought one of you would be able to answer very quickly -- please don't go to a lot of trouble! > And please excuse my almost complete ignorance on this topic... I've got two phonograph catalogs from Victor that are not dated. I figured I could date them by dating the phonographs advertised in them. I'm also assuming that the highest number models are the latest machines. In one catalog the highest number is an 8-30 and in the other the highest is a 10-50. > Would someone mind telling me, please, whether I'm right in my assumptions about the high numbers, and if I am, what the years were when these were first manufactured? I'd be indebted. > Thanks! > ____________________________________________________________ > Learning Centers - Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTKNdOmkILR6131eTzVWkqYk1Sgih8Az3do8Tu9tR7PKL5VNDJ2Jji/ > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From marioaf at optusnet.com.au Sat Jun 27 23:21:19 2009 From: marioaf at optusnet.com.au (Mario Frazzetto) Date: Sat Jun 27 15:22:44 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] re Amberola 1b Grill - WANTED Message-ID: <4A470BDF.7090507@optusnet.com.au> Hi guys, I'm chasing an OAK grill for an Amberola (b)1 I was hoping that someone might have one lying around from a parts machine or the like. I believe that they are the same as the A250 oak Diamond Disc grills. I require an ORIGNAL that is is complete (no bits broken off). If you could assist my email address is marioaf@optusnet.com.au Regards, Mario From msprinzen at juno.com Sat Jun 27 16:13:03 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (msprinzen@juno.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 16:14:58 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 Message-ID: <20090627.191303.25188.0@webmail11.dca.untd.com> Thanks SO much for the information and the link! I cringed when I saw that record slide into the slot... ---------- Original Message ---------- From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 18:08:39 -0400 Hello Look for the Dog here: 8-30 Credenza first shown in November 1925. 10-50 huge automatic record changer introduced in March 1927. You have never lived until you have seen one of these work in person and each one that works owes this to someone who patiently replaced all the broken pot metal parts. When the played record is discharged (violently thrown) into the specially designed holder you fully expect to find only pieces. http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=victrola+10-50&search_type=&aq=f > From: msprinzen@juno.com > Date: Sat, 27 Jun 2009 17:53:26 +0000 > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 > > I'm finally getting around to updating my website (cheap plug -- www.littlewonderrecords.com) to include all the additional information I've collected over the past year or two, and could use some help. I simply don't have the reference books to get the facts, and thought one of you would be able to answer very quickly -- please don't go to a lot of trouble! > And please excuse my almost complete ignorance on this topic... I've got two phonograph catalogs from Victor that are not dated. I figured I could date them by dating the phonographs advertised in them. I'm also assuming that the highest number models are the latest machines. In one catalog the highest number is an 8-30 and in the other the highest is a 10-50. > Would someone mind telling me, please, whether I'm right in my assumptions about the high numbers, and if I am, what the years were when these were first manufactured? I'd be indebted. > Thanks! > ____________________________________________________________ > Learning Centers - Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTKNdOmkILR6131eTzVWkqYk1Sgih8Az3do8Tu9tR7PKL5VNDJ2Jji/ > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From waltsommers at comcast.net Sat Jun 27 17:34:22 2009 From: waltsommers at comcast.net (Walt Sommers) Date: Sat Jun 27 17:40:04 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> References: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com> <8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <4A46BA8E.2080605@comcast.net> gpaul2000@aol.com wrote: These days, few of us are collecting to be hip. Groovy Uncle G....Groovy. From gpaul2000 at aol.com Sat Jun 27 18:50:22 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 18:55:58 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! In-Reply-To: <4A46BA8E.2080605@comcast.net> References: <8CBC53F27D451C0-1E28-2421@WEBMAIL-DZ39.sysops.aol.com><8CBC54E11260DF5-17EC-22BB@WEBMAIL-DZ11.sysops.aol.com> <4A46BA8E.2080605@comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CBC5A9EF158F76-F30-3373@WEBMAIL-DG13.sim.aol.com> As Huey Louis sang back in the Eighties, "It's Hip To Be Square!" -----Original Message----- From: Walt Sommers To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 8:34 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! gpaul2000@aol.com wrote: These days, few of us are collecting to be hip.? ? Groovy Uncle G....Groovy.? _______________________________________________? Phono-L mailing list? http://phono-l.oldcrank.org? From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 27 19:18:18 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 27 19:18:36 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! Message-ID: <410-22009602821818328@earthlink.net> It'spretty hard to expand on, or even amend to what George has said. Many of the previous posts have been my story, either partially, or wholly. Parents often have ideas about what they want their kids to be and to do. When an infant is born, nobody will ever be able to guess how that little mind will develop. Take a look at George Gershwin's story! My mother was totally detached from reality. When I was around 9 years, she was incessently harping that I didn't have a big enough "circle of friends". I had my pals, and was content. I didn't seek more comradeship. She thought I should. So, she "enlisted" me in the cub scouts. I had no interest in that stuff, but there it was,: a big "circle of new friends. How splendid!! I endured it until age 12, when she asked me, in front of one of the cub scout counselors, if I wanted to go into the boy scouts. I answered with a loud NO! I knew I'd be having an option, and I exercised it. Mother's sister had bought a Victor Victrola (XI) new, in 1919, and it was stored at our house.....in a dark, walk-in closet. The mechanism and the music that came out of it fascinated me. I liked it immensely. Mother and my Aunt said many times that they couldn't understand what I saw in all that OLD music, and that OLD Victrola. What the H--l, my aunt was the one who bought it in the first place, and it was at our house for my mother to use before they had a radio! Now, it was an object of hostility (though mildly)..I liked the records, because I was listening to history. They never could figure that out, but they teach history in schools, don't they? My desires and interests were always met with opposition, because I should have been interested in other things, and become something else. That served only to toughen my ambition, and set my goals in concrete. Well, my pig headedness paid off, and even my parents had to acknowledge that I came out OK. Childhood can be a nightmare sometimes, but it doesn't need to be, and it shouldn't be. > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 6/27/2009 10:53:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > > > There's truth in the fact that people collect things (including phonographs & records) for various reasons - - their personal insecurity being only one of several possibilities.? As others have noted, some collectors are focused primarily on market value; others are concerned solely with the aesthetics of recorded performances, and/or the ability of an 80-100 year old mechanical device to faithfully recreate those performances.? Still others are immersed in the history of the artifacts they find.? It's important to realize that any or all of these motivations - as well as others - may exist in a single collector to greater or lesser degrees.? Categorizing a group of people (broadly) may sometimes be possible, but categorizing an individual is usually a trickier proposition.? The larger the group, the easier they (we) are to pigeonhole. > > That said, my take on this topic will be pretty safe: the worldwide interest in generalized antiques has declined since the early 1990s.? People in general are imitative.? When society once again decides that antiques are desirable, trendy, cool...whatever..., we will see a renewed interest in antique phonographs from newcomers.? Until then, those who pursue our hobby might be thought of as the "true believers" - despite their individual motivations.? These days, few of us are collecting to be hip.? But there are those other reasons...! > > I must admit that I don't really care what happens to market values - - I didn't/don't collect with that in mind, and I can't take it with me.? Sure, I'd like to leave my kids a nice meatball, but if it doesn't happen, that's out of my control.? When I started collecting at age 13, I honestly thought I was the only one in the world interested in this stuff.? I know better now, but that shouldn't really concern me.? Collecting for me is a personal thing, to be shared where appropriate with like-minded individuals.? I do love the hobby, but like religion, I approach it on my own terms.? If it doesn't make a positive contribution, what's the point?? And I'm not looking to convert anybody - - either they get it or they don't. > > I encourage each of us to enjoy what collecting brings to our lives, and to simply be thankful.? Not everyone is so fortunate. > > George Paul > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: ronbrink@aol.com > To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:06 am > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > ? > > > Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the > hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress > others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am > now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot > they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one > message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but > that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I > think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there > are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring > stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger > car...etc."? > ? > > What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic > within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is > better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I > need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm > enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time.? > ? > > I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught > up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the > enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having > one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 > machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love > them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on > people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks > come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours > talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder > if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for > their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is > always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have > loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have?? > ? > > Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude? > ? > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 27 19:28:29 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 27 19:28:45 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 Message-ID: <410-22009602822829625@earthlink.net> Merle; the best place to get the data you want would be Paul Edie's Victor Victrola page. The other "gospel" is Bob Baumbach's "Victor Data Book". > [Original Message] > From: msprinzen@juno.com > To: > Date: 6/27/2009 1:57:47 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Dating needed, please on Victor 10-50 and 8-30 > > I'm finally getting around to updating my website (cheap plug -- www.littlewonderrecords.com) to include all the additional information I've collected over the past year or two, and could use some help. I simply don't have the reference books to get the facts, and thought one of you would be able to answer very quickly -- please don't go to a lot of trouble! > And please excuse my almost complete ignorance on this topic... I've got two phonograph catalogs from Victor that are not dated. I figured I could date them by dating the phonographs advertised in them. I'm also assuming that the highest number models are the latest machines. In one catalog the highest number is an 8-30 and in the other the highest is a 10-50. > Would someone mind telling me, please, whether I'm right in my assumptions about the high numbers, and if I am, what the years were when these were first manufactured? I'd be indebted. > Thanks! > ____________________________________________________________ > Learning Centers - Click Here. > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/BLSrjpTKNdOmkILR6131eTzVWkqYk1Sg ih8Az3do8Tu9tR7PKL5VNDJ2Jji/ > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 27 20:15:17 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 27 20:15:36 2009 Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors Message-ID: <410-22009602831517234@earthlink.net> As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander on his AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would have had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the Philharmonic! By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have five grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8. The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for expanders was the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. It, and the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to happen. I have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 version of the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA hunkers really roar! It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume expander on its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had one, but didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a friend. I'd like to have that monster now! In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more sophisticated as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves-Fairchild Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove pitch, so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A microscope shows it easily. > [Original Message] > From: Greg Bogantz > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for readers > of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early 1930s. > dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this > circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave 23 > (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated chassis - > the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and the > RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which included the > volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about 1935. > Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, mostly to > compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available yet). > These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the invention > of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally designed for > the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single tube > in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this tube to > be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable gain > element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid tubes > were used for this purpose for many years until the development of solid > state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though, the > most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then and > even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor (LDR) > elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern recording > engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more modern > circuits. > > Greg Bogantz > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM > Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > > does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame > > i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and > > constricting the music > > > > > > > > In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > > phonographs@charter.net writes: > > > > I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years ago > > and > > found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They tended > > to > > be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they > > liked > > vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used > > record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the > > average > > used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. > > > > Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were familiar > > with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder records. > > When > > I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the coolest > > thing. > > > > Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new vinyl > > is > > being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an album. > > Just > > a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music > > called > > SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but never > > really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. > > Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few years > > SACD > > and DVD-Audio was dead. > > > > When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record > > killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While there > > was > > a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. It > > faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young > > people > > who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems to > > give > > these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will make > > records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs lack > > and > > can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional sound. > > > > Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular in > > recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. > > Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders for > > example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one > > disc, > > even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn of > > the > > century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you want, > > eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. This > > is > > proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the space > > used > > to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as > > well. > > This awaits to be seen. > > > > Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation may > > not > > have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding stereo > > system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All we > > can > > do is educate and share this information with these younger generations > > in > > order to keep the analog recording alive and well. > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > > [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > > > > But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on (young) > > consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in the > > last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly > > speaking) > > has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and > > publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record > > labels > > (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated > > strictly > > to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list said > > it > > already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember the > > pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life > > canvassing for them in the 60's? > > > > The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, and > > none > > of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture > > (thankfully). > > > > Best to all, > > Robert > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "John Maeder" > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > > Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM > > Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > > > > > > > > Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs scratching, > > etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are the > > primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it in > > a > > hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read > > that > > vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades > > right > > now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I guess > > just > > music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales decline > > now because of MP3 and MP4. > > > > John M > > > >> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > >> > >> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. Turntables > > are > >> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > >> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold in > >> almost > >> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. It's > >> my > >> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download all > >> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to the > >> CD. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy > > Steps! > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=htt p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > > eExcfooterNO62) > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From marioaf at optusnet.com.au Sun Jun 28 04:48:10 2009 From: marioaf at optusnet.com.au (Mario Frazzetto) Date: Sat Jun 27 20:49:38 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Role of the C-O-P ( Young collectors? - A SURVEY!) In-Reply-To: <410-22009602821818328@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009602821818328@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4A47587A.80606@optusnet.com.au> Thanks for the story Douglas great to read it! Now here is a question that I want to throw out there. Given that many collectors started because either they knew someone who had a phonograph in the home or had one one in their own homes growing up, and given that this is certainly NOT the case today, except for the fact that there are obviously many crap-o-phones being sold. Is it possible that these very crap-o-phones, that we know are out there, could in some way spark an interests in the hearts of future collectors??? I don't mean for those machines themselves but an interest in phonograph and gramophone technology. Mario (totally against craophones by the way, but just wondering???) Douglas Houston wrote: > It'spretty hard to expand on, or even amend to what George has said. Many > of the previous posts have been my story, either partially, or wholly. > Parents often have ideas about what they want their kids to be and to do. > When an infant is born, nobody will ever be able to guess how that little > mind will develop. Take a look at George Gershwin's story! My mother was > totally detached from reality. When I was around 9 years, she was > incessently harping that I didn't have a big enough "circle of friends". I > had my pals, and was content. I didn't seek more comradeship. She thought I > should. So, she "enlisted" me in the cub scouts. I had no interest in that > stuff, but there it was,: a big "circle of new friends. How splendid!! I > endured it until age 12, when she asked me, in front of one of the cub > scout counselors, if I wanted to go into the boy scouts. I answered with a > loud NO! I knew I'd be having an option, and I exercised it. > > Mother's sister had bought a Victor Victrola (XI) new, in 1919, and it was > stored at our house.....in a dark, walk-in closet. The mechanism and the > music that came out of it fascinated me. I liked it immensely. Mother and > my Aunt said many times that they couldn't understand what I saw in all > that OLD music, and that OLD Victrola. What the H--l, my aunt was the one > who bought it in the first place, and it was at our house for my mother to > use before they had a radio! Now, it was an object of hostility (though > mildly)..I liked the records, because I was listening to history. They > never could figure that out, but they teach history in schools, don't they? > > My desires and interests were always met with opposition, because I should > have been interested in other things, and become something else. That > served only to toughen my ambition, and set my goals in concrete. Well, my > pig headedness paid off, and even my parents had to acknowledge that I came > out OK. Childhood can be a nightmare sometimes, but it doesn't need to be, > and it shouldn't be. > > > >> [Original Message] >> From: >> To: >> Date: 6/27/2009 10:53:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! >> >> >> There's truth in the fact that people collect things (including >> > phonographs & records) for various reasons - - their personal insecurity > being only one of several possibilities.? As others have noted, some > collectors are focused primarily on market value; others are concerned > solely with the aesthetics of recorded performances, and/or the ability of > an 80-100 year old mechanical device to faithfully recreate those > performances.? Still others are immersed in the history of the artifacts > they find.? It's important to realize that any or all of these motivations > - as well as others - may exist in a single collector to greater or lesser > degrees.? Categorizing a group of people (broadly) may sometimes be > possible, but categorizing an individual is usually a trickier > proposition.? The larger the group, the easier they (we) are to pigeonhole. > >> That said, my take on this topic will be pretty safe: the worldwide >> > interest in generalized antiques has declined since the early 1990s.? > People in general are imitative.? When society once again decides that > antiques are desirable, trendy, cool...whatever..., we will see a renewed > interest in antique phonographs from newcomers.? Until then, those who > pursue our hobby might be thought of as the "true believers" - despite > their individual motivations.? These days, few of us are collecting to be > hip.? But there are those other reasons...! > >> I must admit that I don't really care what happens to market values - - I >> > didn't/don't collect with that in mind, and I can't take it with me.? Sure, > I'd like to leave my kids a nice meatball, but if it doesn't happen, that's > out of my control.? When I started collecting at age 13, I honestly thought > I was the only one in the world interested in this stuff.? I know better > now, but that shouldn't really concern me.? Collecting for me is a personal > thing, to be shared where appropriate with like-minded individuals.? I do > love the hobby, but like religion, I approach it on my own terms.? If it > doesn't make a positive contribution, what's the point?? And I'm not > looking to convert anybody - - either they get it or they don't. > >> I encourage each of us to enjoy what collecting brings to our lives, and >> > to simply be thankful.? Not everyone is so fortunate. > >> George Paul >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ronbrink@aol.com >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >> Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:06 am >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! >> ? >> >> >> Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the >> hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress >> others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am >> now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot >> they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one >> message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but >> that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I >> think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there >> are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring >> stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger >> car...etc."? >> ? >> >> What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic >> within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is >> better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I >> need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm >> enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time.? >> ? >> >> I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught >> up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the >> enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having >> one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 >> machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love >> them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on >> people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks >> come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours >> talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder >> if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for >> their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is >> always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have >> loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have?? >> ? >> >> Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude? >> ? >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From andy at popyrus.com Sat Jun 27 20:50:52 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Sat Jun 27 20:53:29 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander In-Reply-To: <410-22009602831517234@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009602831517234@earthlink.net> Message-ID: Hi Doug ~ The volume expander on the Scott AW-23 was an outboard unit, contained in a small, rectangular, chrome plated box that mounted outboard of the main chassis on rubber vibration absorbing pads. The box contained four tubes although I don't know off hand what the tube numbers are. It has three umbilical cords: One that went to the receiver chassis and brances off to interface with two of the tubes that are near one another (with substitute grid clips and caps for each of these two receiver chassis tubes, so the components in the chrome box were put in series with these tubes grid circuits). A second cord goes to the expander control knob, which had its own appropriately stamped escutcheon to match the stock ones. The third cord goes to the dynamic speaker and terminates in a female-male plug that sandwiches between the stock speaker plug and the amplifier/PS chassis, if I recall correctly. I assume this is for filament and plate supply voltages. On the Tasman cabinet, the metal box mounted directly behind the chassis on the left side of the same shelf, and the expander control knob was mounted toward the back of the left side of the cabinet, not far from the top. I don't know if all the expander equipped AW-23s had the (also optional) tweeters, but I should think that most of them would have had them. Thanks for your various accounts and reminiscences. I always read them when you post here and on Levnet as well. Best, Andy Baron Santa Fe On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander > on his > AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would > have > had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the > Philharmonic! > > By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have > five > grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the > oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8. > > The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for > expanders was > the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. > It, and > the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to > happen. I > have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 > version of > the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the > phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic > amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier > directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA > hunkers really roar! > > It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume > expander on > its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had > one, but > didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a > friend. > I'd like to have that monster now! > > In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more > sophisticated > as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves- > Fairchild > Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove > pitch, > so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A > microscope shows it easily. > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Greg Bogantz >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >> >> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for > readers >> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early > 1930s. >> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this >> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the >> Allwave > 23 >> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated >> chassis - >> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), >> and > the >> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which >> included > the >> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about >> 1935. >> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, >> mostly > to >> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available >> yet). >> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the > invention >> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally >> designed > for >> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a >> single > tube >> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed >> this tube > to >> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the >> variable gain >> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid >> tubes >> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of >> solid >> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, >> though, the >> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios >> then and >> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor > (LDR) >> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern >> recording >> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more >> modern >> circuits. >> >> Greg Bogantz >> >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: >> To: >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >> >> >>> does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame >>> i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and >>> constricting the music >>> >>> >>> >>> In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> phonographs@charter.net writes: >>> >>> I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 >>> years ago >>> and >>> found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They > tended >>> to >>> be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why >>> they >>> liked >>> vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at >>> used >>> record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while >>> the >>> average >>> used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. >>> >>> Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were > familiar >>> with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder >>> records. >>> When >>> I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the > coolest >>> thing. >>> >>> Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new > vinyl >>> is >>> being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an >>> album. >>> Just >>> a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music >>> called >>> SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but >>> never >>> really caught on as they needed special players to play these >>> discs. >>> Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few >>> years >>> SACD >>> and DVD-Audio was dead. >>> >>> When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be >>> record >>> killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While > there >>> was >>> a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never >>> died. > It >>> faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many >>> young >>> people >>> who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo >>> systems to >>> give >>> these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system >>> will make >>> records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs > lack >>> and >>> can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional >>> sound. >>> >>> Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very >>> popular in >>> recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. >>> Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to >>> cylinders > for >>> example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on >>> one >>> disc, >>> even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the >>> turn > of >>> the >>> century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you >>> want, >>> eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. > This >>> is >>> proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the >>> space >>> used >>> to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away >>> as >>> well. >>> This awaits to be seen. >>> >>> Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation > may >>> not >>> have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding >>> stereo >>> system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. >>> All > we >>> can >>> do is educate and share this information with these younger > generations >>> in >>> order to keep the analog recording alive and well. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org >>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>> >>> >>> But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on > (young) >>> consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than >>> in > the >>> last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly >>> speaking) >>> has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and >>> publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more >>> record >>> labels >>> (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated >>> strictly >>> to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list > said >>> it >>> already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- >>> remember > the >>> pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his >>> life >>> canvassing for them in the 60's? >>> >>> The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see >>> them, and >>> none >>> of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture >>> (thankfully). >>> >>> Best to all, >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John Maeder" >>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM >>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>> >>> >>> >>> Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs > scratching, >>> etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's >>> are the >>> primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed >>> to it > in >>> a >>> hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently >>> read >>> that >>> vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of >>> decades >>> right >>> now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I >>> guess >>> just >>> music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales > decline >>> now because of MP3 and MP4. >>> >>> John M >>> >>>> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com >>>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 >>>> >>>> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. >>>> Turntables >>> are >>>> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use >>>> them >>>> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still >>>> sold in >>>> almost >>>> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. > It's >>>> my >>>> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download > all >>>> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless >>>> to > the >>>> CD. >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> >>> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just >>> 2 Easy >>> Steps! >>> > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=htt > p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun >>> eExcfooterNO62) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 27 21:42:51 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 27 21:44:22 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander Message-ID: <410-22009602844251375@earthlink.net> Well, that answers a lot. My AW23 is in (I believe,) the Wellington cabinet, and it don't got no expander! Little wonder I didn't know about it! I wonder if anything was in "Silver Ghodts" about it. I believe that the tweeters were available on all of those sets, as accessories. I have some of the tweets laying around, and should check if hey're the right ones for that set. Thanks for the info! > [Original Message] > From: Andrew Baron > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/27/2009 11:53:49 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander > > Hi Doug ~ > > The volume expander on the Scott AW-23 was an outboard unit, contained > in a small, rectangular, chrome plated box that mounted outboard of > the main chassis on rubber vibration absorbing pads. The box > contained four tubes although I don't know off hand what the tube > numbers are. > > It has three umbilical cords: One that went to the receiver chassis > and brances off to interface with two of the tubes that are near one > another (with substitute grid clips and caps for each of these two > receiver chassis tubes, so the components in the chrome box were put > in series with these tubes grid circuits). A second cord goes to the > expander control knob, which had its own appropriately stamped > escutcheon to match the stock ones. The third cord goes to the > dynamic speaker and terminates in a female-male plug that sandwiches > between the stock speaker plug and the amplifier/PS chassis, if I > recall correctly. I assume this is for filament and plate supply > voltages. > > On the Tasman cabinet, the metal box mounted directly behind the > chassis on the left side of the same shelf, and the expander control > knob was mounted toward the back of the left side of the cabinet, not > far from the top. I don't know if all the expander equipped AW-23s > had the (also optional) tweeters, but I should think that most of them > would have had them. > > Thanks for your various accounts and reminiscences. I always read > them when you post here and on Levnet as well. > > Best, > Andy Baron > Santa Fe > > > On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander > > on his > > AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would > > have > > had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the > > Philharmonic! > > > > By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have > > five > > grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the > > oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8. > > > > The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for > > expanders was > > the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. > > It, and > > the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to > > happen. I > > have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 > > version of > > the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the > > phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic > > amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier > > directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA > > hunkers really roar! > > > > It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume > > expander on > > its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had > > one, but > > didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a > > friend. > > I'd like to have that monster now! > > > > In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more > > sophisticated > > as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves- > > Fairchild > > Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove > > pitch, > > so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A > > microscope shows it easily. > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: Greg Bogantz > >> To: Antique Phonograph List > >> Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM > >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >> > >> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for > > readers > >> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early > > 1930s. > >> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this > >> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the > >> Allwave > > 23 > >> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated > >> chassis - > >> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), > >> and > > the > >> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which > >> included > > the > >> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about > >> 1935. > >> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, > >> mostly > > to > >> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available > >> yet). > >> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the > > invention > >> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally > >> designed > > for > >> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a > >> single > > tube > >> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed > >> this tube > > to > >> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the > >> variable gain > >> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid > >> tubes > >> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of > >> solid > >> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, > >> though, the > >> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios > >> then and > >> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor > > (LDR) > >> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern > >> recording > >> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more > >> modern > >> circuits. > >> > >> Greg Bogantz > >> > >> > >> > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: > >> To: > >> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM > >> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >> > >> > >>> does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame > >>> i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and > >>> constricting the music > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > >>> phonographs@charter.net writes: > >>> > >>> I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 > >>> years ago > >>> and > >>> found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They > > tended > >>> to > >>> be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why > >>> they > >>> liked > >>> vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at > >>> used > >>> record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while > >>> the > >>> average > >>> used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. > >>> > >>> Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were > > familiar > >>> with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder > >>> records. > >>> When > >>> I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the > > coolest > >>> thing. > >>> > >>> Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new > > vinyl > >>> is > >>> being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an > >>> album. > >>> Just > >>> a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music > >>> called > >>> SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but > >>> never > >>> really caught on as they needed special players to play these > >>> discs. > >>> Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few > >>> years > >>> SACD > >>> and DVD-Audio was dead. > >>> > >>> When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be > >>> record > >>> killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While > > there > >>> was > >>> a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never > >>> died. > > It > >>> faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many > >>> young > >>> people > >>> who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo > >>> systems to > >>> give > >>> these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system > >>> will make > >>> records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs > > lack > >>> and > >>> can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional > >>> sound. > >>> > >>> Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very > >>> popular in > >>> recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. > >>> Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to > >>> cylinders > > for > >>> example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on > >>> one > >>> disc, > >>> even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the > >>> turn > > of > >>> the > >>> century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you > >>> want, > >>> eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. > > This > >>> is > >>> proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the > >>> space > >>> used > >>> to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away > >>> as > >>> well. > >>> This awaits to be seen. > >>> > >>> Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation > > may > >>> not > >>> have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding > >>> stereo > >>> system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. > >>> All > > we > >>> can > >>> do is educate and share this information with these younger > > generations > >>> in > >>> order to keep the analog recording alive and well. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > >>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright > >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM > >>> To: Antique Phonograph List > >>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>> > >>> > >>> But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on > > (young) > >>> consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than > >>> in > > the > >>> last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly > >>> speaking) > >>> has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and > >>> publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more > >>> record > >>> labels > >>> (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated > >>> strictly > >>> to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list > > said > >>> it > >>> already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- > >>> remember > > the > >>> pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his > >>> life > >>> canvassing for them in the 60's? > >>> > >>> The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see > >>> them, and > >>> none > >>> of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture > >>> (thankfully). > >>> > >>> Best to all, > >>> Robert > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "John Maeder" > >>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" > >>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM > >>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs > > scratching, > >>> etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's > >>> are the > >>> primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed > >>> to it > > in > >>> a > >>> hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently > >>> read > >>> that > >>> vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of > >>> decades > >>> right > >>> now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I > >>> guess > >>> just > >>> music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales > > decline > >>> now because of MP3 and MP4. > >>> > >>> John M > >>> > >>>> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > >>>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > >>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > >>>> > >>>> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. > >>>> Turntables > >>> are > >>>> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use > >>>> them > >>>> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still > >>>> sold in > >>>> almost > >>>> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. > > It's > >>>> my > >>>> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download > > all > >>>> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless > >>>> to > > the > >>>> CD. > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> > >>> > >>> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just > >>> 2 Easy > >>> Steps! > >>> > > (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=htt > > p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > >>> eExcfooterNO62) > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sat Jun 27 21:54:52 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sat Jun 27 21:55:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Role of the C-O-P ( Young collectors? - A SURVEY!) Message-ID: <410-22009602845452218@earthlink.net> That's not out of the question. Imagine that some person has a fascination in a contraption (AKA Crapophone), and buys it. Initially, he/she will be enthralled. Music, coming from a mechanism!! How neat. Before long, that person will find himself, looking at phonographs, and being in the presence of the real thing; probably a Victor or Columbia, which sounds worlds better than his doodlebug. That person will go out un search of a real Vicor, or whatever, bring it home, go ballistic over it, and then, it's onward, and upward for him/her. It might not be as severe as all that, but they've taken the bait, and they're hooked. > [Original Message] > From: Mario Frazzetto > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/28/2009 7:49:27 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Role of the C-O-P ( Young collectors? - A SURVEY!) > > Thanks for the story Douglas great to read it! Now here is a question > that I want to throw out there. > > Given that many collectors started because either they knew someone who > had a phonograph in the home or had one one in their own homes growing > up, and given that this is certainly NOT the case today, except for the > fact that there are obviously many crap-o-phones being sold. Is it > possible that these very crap-o-phones, that we know are out there, > could in some way spark an interests in the hearts of future > collectors??? I don't mean for those machines themselves but an interest > in phonograph and gramophone technology. > > Mario (totally against craophones by the way, but just wondering???) > > > > > > > > > Douglas Houston wrote: > > It'spretty hard to expand on, or even amend to what George has said. Many > > of the previous posts have been my story, either partially, or wholly. > > Parents often have ideas about what they want their kids to be and to do. > > When an infant is born, nobody will ever be able to guess how that little > > mind will develop. Take a look at George Gershwin's story! My mother was > > totally detached from reality. When I was around 9 years, she was > > incessently harping that I didn't have a big enough "circle of friends". I > > had my pals, and was content. I didn't seek more comradeship. She thought I > > should. So, she "enlisted" me in the cub scouts. I had no interest in that > > stuff, but there it was,: a big "circle of new friends. How splendid!! I > > endured it until age 12, when she asked me, in front of one of the cub > > scout counselors, if I wanted to go into the boy scouts. I answered with a > > loud NO! I knew I'd be having an option, and I exercised it. > > > > Mother's sister had bought a Victor Victrola (XI) new, in 1919, and it was > > stored at our house.....in a dark, walk-in closet. The mechanism and the > > music that came out of it fascinated me. I liked it immensely. Mother and > > my Aunt said many times that they couldn't understand what I saw in all > > that OLD music, and that OLD Victrola. What the H--l, my aunt was the one > > who bought it in the first place, and it was at our house for my mother to > > use before they had a radio! Now, it was an object of hostility (though > > mildly)..I liked the records, because I was listening to history. They > > never could figure that out, but they teach history in schools, don't they? > > > > My desires and interests were always met with opposition, because I should > > have been interested in other things, and become something else. That > > served only to toughen my ambition, and set my goals in concrete. Well, my > > pig headedness paid off, and even my parents had to acknowledge that I came > > out OK. Childhood can be a nightmare sometimes, but it doesn't need to be, > > and it shouldn't be. > > > > > > > >> [Original Message] > >> From: > >> To: > >> Date: 6/27/2009 10:53:24 AM > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > >> > >> > >> There's truth in the fact that people collect things (including > >> > > phonographs & records) for various reasons - - their personal insecurity > > being only one of several possibilities.? As others have noted, some > > collectors are focused primarily on market value; others are concerned > > solely with the aesthetics of recorded performances, and/or the ability of > > an 80-100 year old mechanical device to faithfully recreate those > > performances.? Still others are immersed in the history of the artifacts > > they find.? It's important to realize that any or all of these motivations > > - as well as others - may exist in a single collector to greater or lesser > > degrees.? Categorizing a group of people (broadly) may sometimes be > > possible, but categorizing an individual is usually a trickier > > proposition.? The larger the group, the easier they (we) are to pigeonhole. > > > >> That said, my take on this topic will be pretty safe: the worldwide > >> > > interest in generalized antiques has declined since the early 1990s.? > > People in general are imitative.? When society once again decides that > > antiques are desirable, trendy, cool...whatever..., we will see a renewed > > interest in antique phonographs from newcomers.? Until then, those who > > pursue our hobby might be thought of as the "true believers" - despite > > their individual motivations.? These days, few of us are collecting to be > > hip.? But there are those other reasons...! > > > >> I must admit that I don't really care what happens to market values - - I > >> > > didn't/don't collect with that in mind, and I can't take it with me.? Sure, > > I'd like to leave my kids a nice meatball, but if it doesn't happen, that's > > out of my control.? When I started collecting at age 13, I honestly thought > > I was the only one in the world interested in this stuff.? I know better > > now, but that shouldn't really concern me.? Collecting for me is a personal > > thing, to be shared where appropriate with like-minded individuals.? I do > > love the hobby, but like religion, I approach it on my own terms.? If it > > doesn't make a positive contribution, what's the point?? And I'm not > > looking to convert anybody - - either they get it or they don't. > > > >> I encourage each of us to enjoy what collecting brings to our lives, and > >> > > to simply be thankful.? Not everyone is so fortunate. > > > >> George Paul > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: ronbrink@aol.com > >> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > >> Sent: Sat, Jun 27, 2009 9:06 am > >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! > >> ? > >> > >> > >> Within the collecting ranks I note that there are those who love the > >> hobby. There are others who everytime they speak, they need to impress > >> others by the machines they have or the number they have. e.g. " I am > >> now playing such and such a cylinder on my Triumph with wood horn." Ot > >> they tell you the rarity or that it was expensive. The point of one > >> message was to state how the young (baby) liked the cylinder music, but > >> that turns into what type of mchine used down to the horn (wood). I > >> think there are those in the hobby who enjoy it. I also think there > >> are those in the hobby that utilize their treasures as a measuring > >> stick against others almost like "I've got a bigger house....bigger > >> car...etc."? > >> ? > >> > >> What I'm poorly expressing is that I believe the primary demographic > >> within the hobby (50-60 yrs) comes from the generation of bigger is > >> better, more is better, I need to have one (or more) of everything, I > >> need to beat the next guy, have the best, be the best, the "I'm > >> enjoying this and impressing everyone at the same time.? > >> ? > >> > >> I used to have upwards of 100 machines. I too at one time got caught > >> up in the hype of "enjoyment". I saw from myself and others that the > >> enjoyment came from beating others to a great or rare machine. Having > >> one of only 50 known machines was invigorating. Now I have just 10 > >> machines. I won't tell you what they are. It doesn't matter. I love > >> them and enjoy them. The irony is that the more I don't push them on > >> people like I used to or ignore their presence in the house when folks > >> come to visit, the more questions I get. I recently spent 3 hours > >> talking about my simple collection with my new son in law. I wonder > >> if some aren't worried about the hobby because they see the market for > >> their machines potentially dwindeling or the values going down. Is is > >> always a true altruistic desire for young people to love what we have > >> loved for so long or the diminishing desire for what we have?? > >> ? > >> > >> Like everything in life, its all perspective an attitude? > >> ? > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From mdsorter at aol.com Sat Jun 27 22:31:01 2009 From: mdsorter at aol.com (mdsorter@aol.com) Date: Sat Jun 27 22:38:21 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Amberola 50 grille help--is it real? In-Reply-To: <410-22009602844251375@earthlink.net> References: <410-22009602844251375@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <8CBC5C8C207E165-C24-3504@WEBMAIL-DY09.sysops.aol.com> Hello to all on the list-- I have a question about an Amberola 50 I recently acquired.? It is in a nice Oak cabinet.? I have seen many 50's in my time, but something about this one looked different.? I compared it with my Mahogony 50, and realized there was a difference.? Then I began looking at all the phonograph books I have for pictures of the 50.? My oak grille has 5 rectangles with the little triangle at the middle--top and bottom, as well as an line in the very middle of the grille extending from the triangle at the top and bottom to the edge.? It appears to match the finish of the machine (which is untouched and original).? All other grilles on 50's I have pictures of have rectangular shapes, but are rounded top and bottom, leading to the triangle shape top and bottom.? This Oak 50 has a serial number of 5070, and since it is an earlier machine, the id plate is to the right of the inside of the cabinet, behind the grille and under the motorboard.? My mahogony 50 has a serial number in in 32,000 range, and has ID plate in the side of the lid. I was going to sell my mahogony Amberola 50, and keep this new Oak model.? But, I began having second thoughts when I look at the grille.? Is this correct for this machine, or is this some old replacement from years ago??? I know there are many variations to the 50's over the years that they were produced, but I never have seen a different grille.? Any comment on this?? Maybe I have a nice original machine with a unique feature--I hope! Thanks in advance for any comments. Mike Sorter _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisonstuff at comcast.net Sun Jun 28 03:46:10 2009 From: edisonstuff at comcast.net (edisonstuff@comcast.net) Date: Sun Jun 28 03:54:40 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors Message-ID: <920094303.70941246185970821.JavaMail.root@sz0129a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hello Group, ??????? ???????????? Recently a local newspaper did a story about my collection of Edison Phonographs & that resulted in some school children visiting with their teachers, I had two groups middle school & High school. The middle school kids were fascinated by the machines especially the coin operated one, The HS kids couldn't have cared less ! The middle school class went on to visit "The Johnson Victrola Museum " at a later date & were just overwhelmed, Did we recruit a new age of collectors ? Who knows but the seed was at least planted, since then one child has brought his parents back to show them & we talk from time to time. Jim G. From loran at oldcrank.com Sun Jun 28 08:14:55 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Sun Jun 28 08:15:00 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Phono-L Survey Message-ID: <9704B411-257A-47C7-A9F9-B82BB0D23CD9@oldcrank.com> Not to get too survey happy, I've created a survey about Phono-L - how it is now, and a possible direction we could go in the future. Please take a moment to fill it out. I've included a section for comments at the end of the survey, so please feel free to bounce some ideas or thoughts back to me. http://www.surveymonkey.com/s.aspx?sm=MIycHjTrRzbZZTKe7m5b5A_3d_3d Thanks, Loran Phono-L Wrangler From gbogantz1 at charter.net Sun Jun 28 13:55:47 2009 From: gbogantz1 at charter.net (Greg Bogantz) Date: Sun Jun 28 13:56:09 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander References: <410-22009602831517234@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <532F4248FBF94E76B0B3B720D3F91272@gbhpa1514n> Hi Doug, Yes, the volume expander for the AW-23 was an optional item, contained on a separate chassis as Andrew says. The unit contained two 6A7 tubes as variable-gain audio amps, one 6C6 control signal amplifier, and a 76 wired as a diode. The circuit is in the Riders PPT manual, volume 16, page Scott 16-1. Scott was a strong and early proponent of hifi circuitry, and the AW-23 exemplifies this with the use of balanced, push-pull circuitry all the way thru the audio section, including small signal amps, drivers, and outputs. That's why the volume expander uses two 6A7s - they are a balanced pair inserted into the existing balanced audio circuit. E.H. Scott can be considered the "pioneer" of component hifi in the 1930s. His radios were sold with numerous options available, including the addition of record players, record cutters, optional speaker systems, and the cabinets themselves which were separately ordered by the buyer. The tweeters available for the AW-23 were also sold as an optional addition. They were sold as a set of two cone tweeters with crossover network. They are interesting because of their early date and the fact that they were also electrodynamic (ED), with field coils. Philco also put ED tweeters in their top end sets, particularly the 37-690 and 38-690 radios (from 1937, 38 respectively) as standard equipment. As a kid, I never ran into tweeters or "high fidelity" radios from this early period, so I was pretty astounded when I first discovered these early ED tweeters were available so many years before I imagined. The concept of an electrodynamic tweeter still twists my mind :o) Greg Bogantz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:50 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander > Hi Doug ~ > > The volume expander on the Scott AW-23 was an outboard unit, contained in > a small, rectangular, chrome plated box that mounted outboard of the main > chassis on rubber vibration absorbing pads. The box contained four tubes > although I don't know off hand what the tube numbers are. > > It has three umbilical cords: One that went to the receiver chassis and > brances off to interface with two of the tubes that are near one another > (with substitute grid clips and caps for each of these two receiver > chassis tubes, so the components in the chrome box were put in series > with these tubes grid circuits). A second cord goes to the expander > control knob, which had its own appropriately stamped escutcheon to match > the stock ones. The third cord goes to the dynamic speaker and > terminates in a female-male plug that sandwiches between the stock > speaker plug and the amplifier/PS chassis, if I recall correctly. I > assume this is for filament and plate supply voltages. > > On the Tasman cabinet, the metal box mounted directly behind the chassis > on the left side of the same shelf, and the expander control knob was > mounted toward the back of the left side of the cabinet, not far from the > top. I don't know if all the expander equipped AW-23s had the (also > optional) tweeters, but I should think that most of them would have had > them. > > Thanks for your various accounts and reminiscences. I always read them > when you post here and on Levnet as well. > > Best, > Andy Baron > Santa Fe > > > On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > >> As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander on >> his >> AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would >> have >> had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the >> Philharmonic! >> >> By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have five >> grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the >> oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8. >> >> The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for expanders >> was >> the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. It, >> and >> the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to happen. >> I >> have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 version of >> the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the >> phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic >> amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier >> directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA >> hunkers really roar! >> >> It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume expander >> on >> its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had one, >> but >> didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a >> friend. >> I'd like to have that monster now! >> >> In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more >> sophisticated >> as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves- Fairchild >> Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove >> pitch, >> so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A >> microscope shows it easily. >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Greg Bogantz >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>> >>> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for >> readers >>> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early >> 1930s. >>> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this >>> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave >> 23 >>> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated >>> chassis - >>> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and >> the >>> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which >>> included >> the >>> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about >>> 1935. >>> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, >>> mostly >> to >>> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available >>> yet). >>> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the >> invention >>> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally >>> designed >> for >>> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single >> tube >>> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this >>> tube >> to >>> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable >>> gain >>> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid >>> tubes >>> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of >>> solid >>> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though, >>> the >>> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then >>> and >>> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor >> (LDR) >>> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern >>> recording >>> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more >>> modern >>> circuits. >>> >>> Greg Bogantz >>> >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: >>> To: >>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>> >>> >>>> does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame >>>> i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and >>>> constricting the music >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>>> phonographs@charter.net writes: >>>> >>>> I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years >>>> ago >>>> and >>>> found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They >> tended >>>> to >>>> be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they >>>> liked >>>> vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used >>>> record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the >>>> average >>>> used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. >>>> >>>> Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were >> familiar >>>> with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder >>>> records. >>>> When >>>> I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the >> coolest >>>> thing. >>>> >>>> Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new >> vinyl >>>> is >>>> being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an >>>> album. >>>> Just >>>> a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music >>>> called >>>> SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but >>>> never >>>> really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. >>>> Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few >>>> years >>>> SACD >>>> and DVD-Audio was dead. >>>> >>>> When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record >>>> killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While >> there >>>> was >>>> a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. >> It >>>> faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young >>>> people >>>> who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems >>>> to >>>> give >>>> these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will >>>> make >>>> records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs >> lack >>>> and >>>> can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional >>>> sound. >>>> >>>> Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular >>>> in >>>> recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. >>>> Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders >> for >>>> example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one >>>> disc, >>>> even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn >> of >>>> the >>>> century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you >>>> want, >>>> eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. >> This >>>> is >>>> proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the >>>> space >>>> used >>>> to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as >>>> well. >>>> This awaits to be seen. >>>> >>>> Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation >> may >>>> not >>>> have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding >>>> stereo >>>> system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All >> we >>>> can >>>> do is educate and share this information with these younger >> generations >>>> in >>>> order to keep the analog recording alive and well. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright >>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>>> >>>> >>>> But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on >> (young) >>>> consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in >> the >>>> last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly >>>> speaking) >>>> has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and >>>> publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record >>>> labels >>>> (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated >>>> strictly >>>> to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list >> said >>>> it >>>> already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember >> the >>>> pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life >>>> canvassing for them in the 60's? >>>> >>>> The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, >>>> and >>>> none >>>> of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture >>>> (thankfully). >>>> >>>> Best to all, >>>> Robert >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "John Maeder" >>>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" >>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM >>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs >> scratching, >>>> etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are >>>> the >>>> primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it >> in >>>> a >>>> hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read >>>> that >>>> vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades >>>> right >>>> now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I >>>> guess >>>> just >>>> music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales >> decline >>>> now because of MP3 and MP4. >>>> >>>> John M >>>> >>>>> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com >>>>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org >>>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors >>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 >>>>> >>>>> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. >>>>> Turntables >>>> are >>>>> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them >>>>> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold >>>>> in >>>>> almost >>>>> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. >> It's >>>>> my >>>>> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download >> all >>>>> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to >> the >>>>> CD. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>>> >>>> >>>> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 >>>> Easy >>>> Steps! >>>> >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=htt >> p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun >>>> eExcfooterNO62) >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Phono-L mailing list >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From cdh041 at earthlink.net Sun Jun 28 14:58:18 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Sun Jun 28 14:59:27 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander Message-ID: <410-220096028215818828@earthlink.net> Indeed. The EM fields on the tweets didn't surprise me, only because I knew that permenent magentic dynamic speakers wereen't made until just before WW II. But, here's one for ya. There WERE PM dynamic speakers around 1932. I have a Majestic set from about '32 with one. They simply used great big globs of iron, hanging on the speaker fra,es, and went away contented. Philco also had some on battery sets around that time. I sort of think that they need a shot of magnetizmuss now. > [Original Message] > From: Greg Bogantz > To: Antique Phonograph List > Date: 6/28/2009 4:57:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander > > Hi Doug, > > Yes, the volume expander for the AW-23 was an optional item, contained > on a separate chassis as Andrew says. The unit contained two 6A7 tubes as > variable-gain audio amps, one 6C6 control signal amplifier, and a 76 wired > as a diode. The circuit is in the Riders PPT manual, volume 16, page Scott > 16-1. Scott was a strong and early proponent of hifi circuitry, and the > AW-23 exemplifies this with the use of balanced, push-pull circuitry all the > way thru the audio section, including small signal amps, drivers, and > outputs. That's why the volume expander uses two 6A7s - they are a balanced > pair inserted into the existing balanced audio circuit. > > E.H. Scott can be considered the "pioneer" of component hifi in the > 1930s. His radios were sold with numerous options available, including the > addition of record players, record cutters, optional speaker systems, and > the cabinets themselves which were separately ordered by the buyer. The > tweeters available for the AW-23 were also sold as an optional addition. > They were sold as a set of two cone tweeters with crossover network. They > are interesting because of their early date and the fact that they were also > electrodynamic (ED), with field coils. Philco also put ED tweeters in their > top end sets, particularly the 37-690 and 38-690 radios (from 1937, 38 > respectively) as standard equipment. As a kid, I never ran into tweeters or > "high fidelity" radios from this early period, so I was pretty astounded > when I first discovered these early ED tweeters were available so many years > before I imagined. The concept of an electrodynamic tweeter still twists my > mind :o) > > > Greg Bogantz > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Andrew Baron" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 11:50 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Scott AW23 volume expander > > > > Hi Doug ~ > > > > The volume expander on the Scott AW-23 was an outboard unit, contained in > > a small, rectangular, chrome plated box that mounted outboard of the main > > chassis on rubber vibration absorbing pads. The box contained four tubes > > although I don't know off hand what the tube numbers are. > > > > It has three umbilical cords: One that went to the receiver chassis and > > brances off to interface with two of the tubes that are near one another > > (with substitute grid clips and caps for each of these two receiver > > chassis tubes, so the components in the chrome box were put in series > > with these tubes grid circuits). A second cord goes to the expander > > control knob, which had its own appropriately stamped escutcheon to match > > the stock ones. The third cord goes to the dynamic speaker and > > terminates in a female-male plug that sandwiches between the stock > > speaker plug and the amplifier/PS chassis, if I recall correctly. I > > assume this is for filament and plate supply voltages. > > > > On the Tasman cabinet, the metal box mounted directly behind the chassis > > on the left side of the same shelf, and the expander control knob was > > mounted toward the back of the left side of the cabinet, not far from the > > top. I don't know if all the expander equipped AW-23s had the (also > > optional) tweeters, but I should think that most of them would have had > > them. > > > > Thanks for your various accounts and reminiscences. I always read them > > when you post here and on Levnet as well. > > > > Best, > > Andy Baron > > Santa Fe > > > > > > On Jun 27, 2009, at 9:15 PM, Douglas Houston wrote: > > > >> As usual, greg, nice take. I wasn't aware that Scott had an expander on > >> his > >> AW23. I have one, and never knew it! The expander control tube would > >> have > >> had to be a 6A7 in that set. He certainly did have it on the > >> Philharmonic! > >> > >> By the way, the 6A7, while a pentagrid tube, doesn't actually have five > >> grids! The second "grid" is two rods, serving as an anode for the > >> oscillator. Withe the intro of metal tubes, the 6A7 became the 6A8. > >> > >> The tube that really opened up as the ideal control tube for expanders > >> was > >> the 6L7, introduced in 1935, as one of the original 9 metal tubes. It, > >> and > >> the 6H6, dual diode, were the duet that made expanders easy to happen. > >> I > >> have both the D22 and the R99, as well as the U 109: the 1938 version of > >> the D22. On those big RCA combos, the expander operated only on the > >> phonograph, and not on radio reception. The D22 has a little "dynamic > >> amplifier", with three tubes ( I believe), and they feed the amplifier > >> directly. :Likewise, it's similarly done on the U-109. Those big RCA > >> hunkers really roar! > >> > >> It sounds amusing, I suppose, but Midwest incorporated a volume expander > >> on > >> its model 20-38, which was their masterpiece for 1938. I once had one, > >> but > >> didn't yet understand the expander, so I swapped off the set to a > >> friend. > >> I'd like to have that monster now! > >> > >> In the fifties, when microgroove recording was becoming more > >> sophisticated > >> as time passed, Mercury, for one, used what was called: Reeves- Fairchild > >> Margin Control. High level passages automatically widened the groove > >> pitch, > >> so that dynamic range could be preserved, without using compression. A > >> microscope shows it easily. > >> > >> > >>> [Original Message] > >>> From: Greg Bogantz > >>> To: Antique Phonograph List > >>> Date: 6/27/2009 3:51:11 PM > >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>> > >>> An interesting thing about dynamic volume expanders/compressors for > >> readers > >>> of this antique phonograph forum is that they date back to the early > >> 1930s. > >>> dbx didn't invent them by any means. The earliest appearance of this > >>> circuit in consumer products was in models by E.H. Scott in the Allwave > >> 23 > >>> (a massive 23-tube radio divided into two or more chrome-plated > >>> chassis - > >>> the volume expander was yet a separate chassis sold as an option), and > >> the > >>> RCA R-99 record player and D-22 radio/phonograph, both of which > >>> included > >> the > >>> volume expander as standard equipment. These models appeared about > >>> 1935. > >>> Professional compressor circuits were being used a little earlier, > >>> mostly > >> to > >>> compress the signals for AM radio broadcasting (FM wasn't available > >>> yet). > >>> These circuits really weren't technologically feasable until the > >> invention > >>> of the pentagrid tube (it had FIVE grids!) which was originally > >>> designed > >> for > >>> the purpose of providing the oscillator and mixer functions in a single > >> tube > >>> in superheterodyne radio circuits. But the extra grids allowed this > >>> tube > >> to > >>> be used as a DC-controlled transconductance amplifier - the variable > >>> gain > >>> element necessary to accomplish dynamic volume control. Pentagrid > >>> tubes > >>> were used for this purpose for many years until the development of > >>> solid > >>> state technologies that could do the same thing. Curiously, though, > >>> the > >>> most popular DC-controlled amplifiers used in recording studios then > >>> and > >>> even NOW are a simpler technology employing light-dependent resistor > >> (LDR) > >>> elements. Even though this technology is 50 years old, modern > >>> recording > >>> engineers still prefer the sound of LDR compressors over the more > >>> modern > >>> circuits. > >>> > >>> Greg Bogantz > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: > >>> To: > >>> Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:46 AM > >>> Subject: Re: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>> > >>> > >>>> does anyone remember the expanders of dbx fame > >>>> i have and had used a lot of them back in the 70's for expanding and > >>>> constricting the music > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> In a message dated 6/26/2009 11:47:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > >>>> phonographs@charter.net writes: > >>>> > >>>> I used to work at a hi-fi stereo shop in Madison, WI about 2 years > >>>> ago > >>>> and > >>>> found that many young people were into turntables and vinyl. They > >> tended > >>>> to > >>>> be high school and college age students. The biggest reason why they > >>>> liked > >>>> vinyl was because it was cheap. They could buy used records at used > >>>> record/CD stores and at garage sales for 99 cents or less, while the > >>>> average > >>>> used priced CD for popular music was $8.99. > >>>> > >>>> Even though these vinyl enthusiasts understood records and were > >> familiar > >>>> with them, they had little to no knowledge of 78s or cylinder > >>>> records. > >>>> When > >>>> I would share this technology with them, they thought it was the > >> coolest > >>>> thing. > >>>> > >>>> Records have been making a comeback now for several years and new > >> vinyl > >>>> is > >>>> being produced, although expensive at nearly $30 or more for an > >>>> album. > >>>> Just > >>>> a few years ago there were high-resolution formats of digital music > >>>> called > >>>> SACD and DVD Audio. These formats were near record quality, but > >>>> never > >>>> really caught on as they needed special players to play these discs. > >>>> Records actually began to overtake these formats and within a few > >>>> years > >>>> SACD > >>>> and DVD-Audio was dead. > >>>> > >>>> When CDs came out around 1983-84, it was thought they would be record > >>>> killers and records would go the way of the cassette tape. While > >> there > >>>> was > >>>> a huge decline in record and turntable sales, the market never died. > >> It > >>>> faded away for a few years, but is coming back. There are many young > >>>> people > >>>> who appreciate the quality of high-end turntables and stereo systems > >>>> to > >>>> give > >>>> these records the respect they deserve. A good stereo system will > >>>> make > >>>> records sound better than a CD. Records have an ambiance that CDs > >> lack > >>>> and > >>>> can produce a 3D audio effect, while CDs have a monodimensional > >>>> sound. > >>>> > >>>> Online music, including MP3, MP4, WMAs, etc have become very popular > >>>> in > >>>> recent years by people of all ages. It is a matter of convenience. > >>>> Convenience always wins over quality. Take disc records to cylinders > >> for > >>>> example. Discs were more compact and soon provided two songs on one > >>>> disc, > >>>> even though they didn't sound quite as good as cylinders at the turn > >> of > >>>> the > >>>> century. Online music also allows you to buy only the songs you > >>>> want, > >>>> eliminating the waste of a full album and is more cost effective. > >> This > >>>> is > >>>> proving to be the demise of the CD. Many stores have reduced the > >>>> space > >>>> used > >>>> to carry the once mighty CD. Perhaps the CD will one day go away as > >>>> well. > >>>> This awaits to be seen. > >>>> > >>>> Many of the younger people who are a product of the iPOD generation > >> may > >>>> not > >>>> have heard records and probably have never heard a good sounding > >>>> stereo > >>>> system. That is a shame because it is an experience to behold. All > >> we > >>>> can > >>>> do is educate and share this information with these younger > >> generations > >>>> in > >>>> order to keep the analog recording alive and well. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org > >>>> [mailto:phono-l-bounces@oldcrank.org]On Behalf Of Robert Wright > >>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 4:31 PM > >>>> To: Antique Phonograph List > >>>> Subject: [SPAM] Re: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> But because DJ'ing is 'cool', some of that mentality rubs off on > >> (young) > >>>> consumers. We have a more phono-conscious youth culture now than in > >> the > >>>> last 20 years because of it. Meanwhile, analog (vinyl, strictly > >>>> speaking) > >>>> has been strengthening its foothold in the audiophile market (and > >>>> publications) VERY solidly since '97 or so, and there are more record > >>>> labels > >>>> (both large-scale that release on vinyl AND indie labels dedicated > >>>> strictly > >>>> to audiophile pressings) today than ever. Someone else on the list > >> said > >>>> it > >>>> already -- it comes and goes in cycles, as it always has -- remember > >> the > >>>> pre-war blues 78 market back when Gayle Dean Wardlow risked his life > >>>> canvassing for them in the 60's? > >>>> > >>>> The truth is, we only know the state of things as we can see them, > >>>> and > >>>> none > >>>> of us ever really has an accurate idea of the overall picture > >>>> (thankfully). > >>>> > >>>> Best to all, > >>>> Robert > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>>> From: "John Maeder" > >>>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" > >>>> Sent: Friday, June 26, 2009 3:30 PM > >>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Yes, that was my line of thinking exactly what with club DJs > >> scratching, > >>>> etc., when I planned my talk. I think, perhaps, that club DJ's are > >>>> the > >>>> primary consumer of vinyl and 'civilians' simply aren't exposed to it > >> in > >>>> a > >>>> hands-on home environment anymore. Having said that, I recently read > >>>> that > >>>> vinyl record production is at its highest level in a couple of decades > >>>> right > >>>> now, although still just a very small fraction of unit sales. I > >>>> guess > >>>> just > >>>> music 'geeks' buy vinyl nowadays? Even CDs and DVDs are in sales > >> decline > >>>> now because of MP3 and MP4. > >>>> > >>>> John M > >>>> > >>>>> From: jay.horenstein@gmail.com > >>>>> To: phono-l@oldcrank.org > >>>>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Young collectors > >>>>> Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:18:34 -0700 > >>>>> > >>>>> Vinyl isn't a thing of the past. It's still used in clubs. > >>>>> Turntables > >>>> are > >>>>> used as instruments in Rap, Hip Hop, R&B. Classes on how to use them > >>>>> as instruments are given to aspiring DJ's. Stereos are still sold > >>>>> in > >>>>> almost > >>>>> every large store, and new artists are still recording on vinyl. > >> It's > >>>>> my > >>>>> guess that the young people ignorant of the record player, download > >> all > >>>>> their music from the internet, and are probably just as clueless to > >> the > >>>>> CD. > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Phono-L mailing list > >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>>> > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Phono-L mailing list > >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> **************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 > >>>> Easy > >>>> Steps! > >>>> > >> (http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1222585065x1201462786/aol?redir=htt > >> p://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072&hmpgID=62&bcd=Jun > >>>> eExcfooterNO62) > >>>> _______________________________________________ > >>>> Phono-L mailing list > >>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >>> > >>> _______________________________________________ > >>> Phono-L mailing list > >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> Phono-L mailing list > >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Sun Jun 28 16:09:12 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Sun Jun 28 16:09:23 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young Collectors & middle school kids In-Reply-To: <920094303.70941246185970821.JavaMail.root@sz0129a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <920094303.70941246185970821.JavaMail.root@sz0129a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <4CF1EAE1-D7E2-47CE-8A17-695E5EE0CFDD@popyrus.com> Jim's observation reminds me how incredibly receptive the middle school kids were to a presentation on the Maillardet Automaton that I did last March 31. I was brought out to Connecticut for this for this event, which entailed presentations to three middle schools with auditoriums filled with 13 year olds, and one impromptu partial presentation that I was asked to do for a very small hand-picked gathering at a high school that was associated with one of the middle schools. All in all, some 800 kids saw this presentation. The presentation involved lots of still images and a number of video clips of the actual artifact, and touched on its connection to, and my involvement with, the book "The Invention of Hugo Cabret", by Brian Selznick. This book was the selected title for a "one town, one read", or "town-wide read" program, and was the reason they brought me out. I was nervous about this age group, but the response was overwhelmingly positive and my host forwarded a number of emails from teachers at these schools who also were amazed that the kids emerged talking excitedly about historical perspective and antique machines. Maybe it's no coincidence that many of us discovered our own first attractions to antique phonograph and music machines at about that age. The Maillardet Automaton is sort of a distant cousin to a music box, built in the early 19th century, and although it has mechanism that's familiar to most of us (main springs, gears, governors, levers, etc.), the mechanism us put to an extraordinarily different use. Some of the more hard-core music box collectors and historians are aware of it, and some computer folks who view its extensive mechanical memory as being a forerunner to modern computers. Needless to say, it was humbling and extremely rewarding to have gotten such positive feedback from this age group on such an esoteric subject, and a subject completely outside their usual frame of reference. Andy Baron On Jun 28, 2009, at 4:46 AM, edisonstuff@comcast.net wrote: > Hello Group, > Recently a local newspaper did a story about my > collection of Edison Phonographs & that resulted in some school > children visiting with their teachers, I had two groups middle > school & High school. The middle school kids were fascinated by the > machines especially the coin operated one, The HS kids couldn't have > cared less ! The middle school class went on to visit "The Johnson > Victrola Museum " at a later date & were just overwhelmed, Did we > recruit a new age of collectors ? Who knows but the seed was at > least planted, since then one child has brought his parents back to > show them & we talk from time to time. > > Jim G. From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sun Jun 28 17:31:10 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006@aol.com) Date: Sun Jun 28 17:31:31 2009 Subject: [Phono-L] Young collectors? - A SURVEY! Message-ID: ron i agree with you totally it not what you have but if you your self get enjoyment out of them most of my friends have a lot rarer machines than i do and i enjoy seeing them for the reason i can enjoy them and not have to spend 20 k or more to own them most people who come to