[Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear
Bob
rvuill at comcast.net
Tue Jul 28 11:21:24 PDT 2009
Hi Rich,
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I successfully
repaired the fiber gear. I cleaned it first with clock cleaning solution
and acetone. When I was sure all the old grease had been removed, I built
up the damaged teeth with JB Weld. This was a lot easier to do than I
thought. The material can be worked to almost the correct shape before it
sets up and then cleaned up with a Swiss pattern file after it hardens. I
had it almost perfect after one try and after the second application I had
the gear turning the worm in the governor perfectly. The bad news is that
when I took it apart after the first test there was a fair amount of tension
on the spring and it appears that I broke it when all the tension let go at
once.Does any one know how to take the spring barrel apart? There's a cap
on the end that extends down the side of the barrel about 3/8". I'm
assuming that if I have the gear with the spring arbor on it in the barrel I
can bang on the end with a hammer and force the cap off. Does this sound
correct? I don't want to mess it up again . If you know how to remove the
cap, please advise.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich" <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 04, 2009 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear
> Bob,
> I used to know what those were made out of but right now its a blank.
> The trick is to get the grease out of it so something will bond
> properly. Once its clean I think I would use a thinned epoxy as a paint
> to build it up and firm up what was left. Most products sold as epoxy
> are polyester and that will not work. The easiest place to find the
> real epoxy is a marina and acetone is the thinner for it. You can thin
> it down so it can be brushed on.
>
> Bob wrote:
>> Hi Rich,
>> Well I thought it was fixed by replacing the felt but not so. The
>> fiber gear is definitely stripped. I can still see the gear teeth so
>> that if I can build it up with something I can file out the excess an
>> hopefully have a useable gear. The question is what to use to build it
>> up. I guess the first thing to do is clean off the gear completely so
>> that whatever I use will stick. I assume I can remove all the grease
>> with something like acetone. Do you know what the fiber gear is made
>> from? This would help in deciding what to use. Two possible materials
>> come to mind. The first is Weldwood wood filler. It looks a lot like
>> the firer gear and could be worked easily with a small Swiss pattern
>> file after it set up. I'm not sure if it will stick to the firer gear
>> material or is strong enough to form the replacement teeth. The second
>> possibility is a clear epoxy. The advantage to this is that the pattern
>> of the original teeth will be visible through it and it will be easier
>> to see how the teeth should be filed. Do you have any suggestions?
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>> Sent: Monday, June 22, 2009 7:32 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear
>>
>>
>>> If you plan on using the machine a lot it will still help to change it
>>> out. Once the felt gets oil soaked and the old oil oxidizes its pretty
>>> much done.
>>>
>>> Good to hear that it worked out well!
>>>
>>> Rich
>>>
>>> Bob wrote:
>>>> Hi Rich,
>>>> Well you were right, the felt was the problem. It was quite
>>>> distorted and hanging over the edge of the brass disk on the governor.
>>>> . As the rest of the felt looked pretty good, I only had to reposition
>>>> it in the arm that holds it and cut off the excess and reform the front
>>>> so that it was parallel with the governor disk. Thanks for your help.
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
>>>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 3:19 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Try and change the felt without spreading the bent metal that holds
>>>>> it.
>>>>> Usually you can cut a piece of real wool felt a bit tapered and pull
>>>>> it into the clamp without bending them as they tend to break. Use
>>>>> real
>>>>> 100% wool felt or it will fail.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bob wrote:
>>>>>> Hi Rich,
>>>>>> The governor felt is pretty much as you described. I will change
>>>>>> that first. If it's that easy I owe this list a Big Thank you.
>>>>>> Bob
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rich" <rich-mail at octoxol.com>
>>>>>> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2009 12:32 PM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Repairing a fiber gear
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Most of the older fiber gears are destroyed by petroleum. Clean
>>>>>>> it off
>>>>>>> and look at it real hard. Sanding is not going to fix it. look
>>>>>>> at the
>>>>>>> felt pad that the governor runs against if its oil soaked and mushed
>>>>>>> out
>>>>>>> the governor will flutter. Replace the felt. Use real felt and not
>>>>>>> cheap polyester. F-1 or F-2 grade felt works. The felt is easy,
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> gear not so.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bob wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm restoring a Thorens Excelda. I've got it running pretty well
>>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>>> am having a severe problem with wow and flutter. It's so bad
>>>>>>>> that it
>>>>>>>> makes listening almost impossible. The records appear to be
>>>>>>>> traveling at a consistent speed but there must be minute
>>>>>>>> hesitations
>>>>>>>> that are impossible to see but they surely affect the sound
>>>>>>>> quality.
>>>>>>>> The mainspring is plenty strong so that's not the problem and the
>>>>>>>> reproducer sounds fantastic on other machines. The problem appears
>>>>>>>> to be caused by excessive wear on the fiber gear that mates with
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> worm gear in the governor. A friend suggested I clean it and try
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> build up the bad areas with JB Weld. I'm afraid to do this
>>>>>>>> because I
>>>>>>>> think it will be very difficult to control and be irreversible if I
>>>>>>>> do it wrong. I've been thinking about cleaning all the grease
>>>>>>>> off of
>>>>>>>> it and checking over for defects with a magnifier. If I can see
>>>>>>>> areas in the gear thread that are raised I will smooth them out
>>>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> sand paper. To try to build up an
>>>>>>> y areas that look low I will paint on some lacquer or urethane
>>>>>>> varnish. As I mentioned earlier, the turntable appears to be
>>>>>>> rotating
>>>>>>> at a consistent speed so It shouldn't take much to true up the teeth
>>>>>>> enough to work properly. I'm looking for second opinions on this
>>>>>>> technique or any other technique that you think will solve the
>>>>>>> problem. Thanks
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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