From Srsells1 at aol.com Tue Dec 1 05:45:04 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 1 Dec 2009 08:45:04 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Museum of Recorded sound ( was Johnson Victrola Museum Dover, DE) Message-ID: In a message dated 11/30/2009 3:29:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, appywander at hotmail.com writes: Yeah, I know about that. There was supposed to be one near the Hollywood Bowl back in the 1960's too. I'm looking to the future though, not the past. Well I think in the future it will be a VIRTUAL museum as in the late 21st Century the artifacts will be ipods and MP3 player (unfortunately). Even the BOX SETS of CDs this year are - in some cases - available as "Digital Downloads". Steve From rvuill at comcast.net Wed Dec 2 04:08:24 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 07:08:24 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Need mainspring for a Thorens Excelda Message-ID: <337684D4BA614634AE8FA6571CBD4BDC@HPPC> Hi, I need to replace a mainspring in a Thorens Excelda. If anyone has the correct spring or knows where I can find it, please email me at rvuill at comcast.net. From msprinzen at juno.com Wed Dec 2 14:17:52 2009 From: msprinzen at juno.com (Merle Sprinzen) Date: Wed, 2 Dec 2009 17:17:52 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] FOR SALE: 1927 Victor catalog and Victrola XI instructions Message-ID: <20091202.183126.5944.2.msprinzen@juno.com> Hi Everyone -- Still fall cleaning... Two items this time: -- A 24-page 1927 Victor "Orthophonic Victrola Electrola and Radiola Combinations" catalog. This one is missing the covers and the pages have been exposed to water at some point in their past. All of the writing is still perfectly legible and the photographs are still clear -- there's just a bit of pink tinting in the middle of each page. I'm thinking that $20 would be a fair price. -- A reprint of the instructions for a Victrola XI, Type G. This one is a very well done reproduction -- I thought it was the real thing until I saw it was printed in 1980 by the AMR Co. of Seattle, WA. The sections are Unpacking and Setting Up the Machine, How to Operate, Victor Tungs-Tone Stylus, Victor Fibre Needles, Speed Regulator, Care of Motor, Sound Box, Care of Records and Causes for Poor Results. $8.50 If you're interested in either of these, please contact me off list. Best wishes for the holiday! Merle ____________________________________________________________ Diet Help Cheap Diet Help Tips. Click here. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/c?cp=rDG1ngQLRNEjHlPHSectRAAAJ1D2EGWQJgc2Zfu3rGBZpu80AAYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYQAAAAAA= From Srsells1 at aol.com Wed Dec 2 21:10:14 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1 at aol.com) Date: Thu, 3 Dec 2009 00:10:14 EST Subject: [Phono-L] In The Groove will be mailed late this month.... Message-ID: Just got this from Phil and Eileen Stewart: (editors of In The Groove) We observed the Thanksgiving holiday and therefore, the ITG will not go to the printer until 12/7/09, which means it probably won't be mailed before the 10th. Can you get the word out? Thank you. BTW, don't finish your holiday shopping yet. My gift wish list is is this month's issue ;-) Steve Ramm From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Fri Dec 4 10:39:35 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 10:39:35 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Message-ID: <4b195789.171bf30a.23ad.1976@mx.google.com> Well...the $70,000 shroud of Jesus Silvertone auction has ended. I wonder who the blessed winner is? From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Fri Dec 4 11:36:04 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 19:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle In-Reply-To: <4b195789.171bf30a.23ad.1976@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <712906600.206551259955364908.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I hope they come forward and Identify themselves, we certainly need something outrageous and provocative and crazy like this to finally displace Tiger Woods from the top of the headlines every evening !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Horenstein" To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, December 4, 2009 1:39:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Well...the $70,000 shroud of Jesus Silvertone auction has ended. I wonder who the blessed winner is? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From john9ten at pacbell.net Fri Dec 4 12:26:13 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 20:26:13 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Message-ID: <746433395-1259958336-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-2007746915-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I don't know, but ask them if they can turn water into wine. John Robles ------Original Message------ From: Jay Horenstein Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: phono-l at oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Sent: Dec 4, 2009 10:39 AM Well...the $70,000 shroud of Jesus Silvertone auction has ended. I wonder who the blessed winner is? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sat Dec 5 02:34:26 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 05:34:26 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Message-ID: PROBABLY THE SELLER LOL ZONO In a message dated 12/4/2009 3:19:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bruce78rpm at comcast.net writes: I hope they come forward and Identify themselves, we certainly need something outrageous and provocative and crazy like this to finally displace Tiger Woods from the top of the headlines every evening !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jay Horenstein" To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Friday, December 4, 2009 1:39:35 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Christmas miracle Well...the $70,000 shroud of Jesus Silvertone auction has ended. I wonder who the blessed winner is? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From loran at oldcrank.com Sat Dec 5 06:40:35 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran Hughes) Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 06:40:35 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Turntable Needed Message-ID: Hello Friends, I'm in search of a 7" turntable for a second model Columbia AK. Any leads would be most appreciated! Thanks, Loran From rvuill at comcast.net Mon Dec 7 08:53:23 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 11:53:23 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M Message-ID: There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a piece on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have a similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? From lherault at bu.edu Mon Dec 7 09:00:37 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 12:00:37 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM To: Phono L List Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a piece on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have a similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From smstitt at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 10:34:25 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 10:34:25 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912071034p597e8055sd068869013af13c9@mail.gmail.com> That has been the $64,000 question for some time. Maybe an answer is now known. Oldcranky On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Ron L'Herault wrote: > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > To: Phono L List > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a piece > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have > a > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From rvuill at comcast.net Mon Dec 7 13:27:50 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 16:27:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> Message-ID: <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must know what it's for. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > To: Phono L List > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > piece > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have > a > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From john9ten at pacbell.net Mon Dec 7 13:33:49 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 21:33:49 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M Message-ID: <764762600-1260221589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1250619702-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> It covers the holes for the old frontmount crane. I have the same thing. Never knew why it had a hole in the bracket though. ------Original Message------ From: Bob Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: Antique Phonograph List ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M Sent: Dec 7, 2009 1:27 PM That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must know what it's for. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > To: Phono L List > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > piece > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have > a > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From smstitt at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 13:48:19 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 13:48:19 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <764762600-1260221589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1250619702-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <764762600-1260221589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1250619702-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912071348o22346f78m77b5828d520f7461@mail.gmail.com> I don't remember if my MS has that part but on the other hand I don't know where my MS is, I put it somewhere. If I wanted to cover a hole I'd do it like I did on the R. How many back mount M's are there to front mount? Also it would be a little high for a stationary arm I'd think....I do know we are talking about a M but a MS is front mount as well so it invites comparison. I sold my M years ago. All that I've seen have them. Oldcranky On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 1:33 PM, wrote: > It covers the holes for the old frontmount crane. I have the same thing. > Never knew why it had a hole in the bracket though. > ------Original Message------ > From: Bob > Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > To: Antique Phonograph List > ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > Sent: Dec 7, 2009 1:27 PM > > > That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? > However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at > the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must > know what it's for. > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L'Herault" > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > > > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Bob > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > > To: Phono L List > > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > > piece > > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is > for. > > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I > have > > a > > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 14:33:11 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 14:33:11 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> Message-ID: <4b1d82d0.9513f30a.41ee.2f0b@mx.google.com> I thought it might be for a crane designed (probably never marketed) for use as additional support on a very large and/or heavy back mount horn. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must know what it's for. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > To: Phono L List > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > piece > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have > a > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2549 - Release Date: 12/07/09 07:33:00 From smstitt at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 15:12:10 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:12:10 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <4b1d82d0.9513f30a.41ee.2f0b@mx.google.com> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> <4b1d82d0.9513f30a.41ee.2f0b@mx.google.com> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912071512ica8d793u3b500a5326fb3875@mail.gmail.com> Man Jay, A crane on a Victor machine!!! Johnson is rolling in his grave. Hell he hung huge horns on his back mount machines. Next time you are at Jerry's look around the basement. I'm waiting for the "big dogs" to chime in...... Mike On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jay Horenstein wrote: > I thought it might be for a crane designed (probably never marketed) for > use > as additional support on a very large and/or heavy back mount horn. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > > That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? > However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at > the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must > know what it's for. > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ron L'Herault" > To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > > > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > > > Ron L > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > > On > > Behalf Of Bob > > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > > To: Phono L List > > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > > piece > > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is > for. > > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I > have > > > a > > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2549 - Release Date: 12/07/09 > 07:33:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From phonolist at mac.com Mon Dec 7 15:38:27 2009 From: phonolist at mac.com (RBaumbach) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 15:38:27 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <7e8e90ff0912071512ica8d793u3b500a5326fb3875@mail.gmail.com> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> <4b1d82d0.9513f30a.41ee.2f0b@mx.google.com> <7e8e90ff0912071512ica8d793u3b500a5326fb3875@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <30464907-1F69-4C29-B161-E82ED9E45256@mac.com> I have talked to many collectors, and no one has given me a definitive answer as to the full purpose of this piece. Of course, it covers the holes that were drilled into the case for for the front mount arm, so it or something similar was required for any of the machines built for dealer conversion (from a Victor M to a Victor III, as an example). This doesn't explain why there is a hole in the piece, however. It certainly looks like Victor had something in mind for this hole. The only explanation that I have ever heard that made any kind of sense was that the hole was designed to accept a rod which could offer additional support for a large horn, exactly as Jay speculated. Remember that the rigid arm Victors have a relatively weak elbow, which is easily bent. I have never seen such a supplemental support, however. On MondayDecember 7, 2009, at December720093:12 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: > Man Jay, > A crane on a Victor machine!!! Johnson is rolling in his grave. Hell he hung > huge horns on his back mount machines. Next time you are at Jerry's look > around the basement. I'm waiting for the "big dogs" to chime in...... > Mike > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jay Horenstein wrote: > >> I thought it might be for a crane designed (probably never marketed) for >> use >> as additional support on a very large and/or heavy back mount horn. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Bob >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >> >> >> That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? >> However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at >> the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must >> know what it's for. >> Bob >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron L'Herault" >> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >> >> >>> Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Bob >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM >>> To: Phono L List >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >>> >>> There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a >>> piece >>> on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is >> for. >>> If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I >> have >> >>> a >>> similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2549 - Release Date: 12/07/09 >> 07:33:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From kbab1 at charter.net Mon Dec 7 15:19:00 2009 From: kbab1 at charter.net (Ken and Brenda Brekke) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 17:19:00 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <764762600-1260221589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1250619702-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: I have a few of these machines with the same cover. I did see one of these brackets with a rod coming out of it with a clip to hold a metal Victor needle tin in a collection years ago. None of mine have the rod with the clip, just the bracket. Ken B. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of john9ten at pacbell.net Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:34 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M It covers the holes for the old frontmount crane. I have the same thing. Never knew why it had a hole in the bracket though. From smstitt at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 15:49:43 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 15:49:43 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: References: <764762600-1260221589-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1250619702-@bda493.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912071549j12978f60l949539ee7dce7922@mail.gmail.com> Ken, Yes, I remember that too. M On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 3:19 PM, Ken and Brenda Brekke wrote: > I have a few of these machines with the same cover. I did see one of > these > brackets with a rod coming out of it with a clip to hold a metal Victor > needle tin in a collection years ago. None of mine have the rod with the > clip, just the bracket. Ken B. > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of john9ten at pacbell.net > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:34 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > It covers the holes for the old frontmount crane. I have the same thing. > Never knew why it had a hole in the bracket though. > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From Srsells1 at aol.com Mon Dec 7 17:23:15 2009 From: Srsells1 at aol.com (Srsells1 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 20:23:15 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Has anyone used Collectibles Insurance Company for their Collection.. Message-ID: and had to file a claim with them? I'm looking to change my collection insurance coverage and their rates are lower than what I have now through Chubb. Like Chubb they don't require an inventory. But I'd like to know if anyone ever filed a claim and how it was handled. I don't want to start a whole string. I'd prefer only those who have actually settled a claim reply. Thanks! Steve Ramm From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Mon Dec 7 18:51:06 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Mon, 7 Dec 2009 18:51:06 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <30464907-1F69-4C29-B161-E82ED9E45256@mac.com> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> <4b1d82d0.9513f30a.41ee.2f0b@mx.google.com> <7e8e90ff0912071512ica8d793u3b500a5326fb3875@mail.gmail.com> <30464907-1F69-4C29-B161-E82ED9E45256@mac.com> Message-ID: <4b1dbf41.9713f30a.6c01.3c30@mx.google.com> Maybe it was to hold some kind of attachment for needle tins, oil bottles, record cleaner brushes, or something. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of RBaumbach Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 3:38 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M I have talked to many collectors, and no one has given me a definitive answer as to the full purpose of this piece. Of course, it covers the holes that were drilled into the case for for the front mount arm, so it or something similar was required for any of the machines built for dealer conversion (from a Victor M to a Victor III, as an example). This doesn't explain why there is a hole in the piece, however. It certainly looks like Victor had something in mind for this hole. The only explanation that I have ever heard that made any kind of sense was that the hole was designed to accept a rod which could offer additional support for a large horn, exactly as Jay speculated. Remember that the rigid arm Victors have a relatively weak elbow, which is easily bent. I have never seen such a supplemental support, however. On MondayDecember 7, 2009, at December720093:12 PM, Mike Stitt wrote: > Man Jay, > A crane on a Victor machine!!! Johnson is rolling in his grave. Hell he hung > huge horns on his back mount machines. Next time you are at Jerry's look > around the basement. I'm waiting for the "big dogs" to chime in...... > Mike > > On Mon, Dec 7, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jay Horenstein wrote: > >> I thought it might be for a crane designed (probably never marketed) for >> use >> as additional support on a very large and/or heavy back mount horn. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Bob >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 1:28 PM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >> >> >> That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? >> However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at >> the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must >> know what it's for. >> Bob >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Ron L'Herault" >> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" >> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >> >> >>> Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >>> On >>> Behalf Of Bob >>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM >>> To: Phono L List >>> Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M >>> >>> There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a >>> piece >>> on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is >> for. >>> If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I >> have >> >>> a >>> similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2549 - Release Date: 12/07/09 >> 07:33:00 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.426 / Virus Database: 270.14.96/2549 - Release Date: 12/07/09 07:33:00 From lherault at bu.edu Mon Dec 7 20:24:29 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Mon, 07 Dec 2009 23:24:29 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M In-Reply-To: <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> References: <008d01ca775e$cca3f9d0$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> <1068E10BCEFF49AB9F333FD58975A856@HPPC> Message-ID: <005a01ca77be$55c2c5c0$01485140$@edu> It looks like it is in the spot where the horn support arm attached to the cabinet. Maybe it was intended as a storage place for the crank? Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 4:28 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M That's what I always thought; possibly to hold a crane for a front mount? However every front mount Victor or Columbia I've ever seen has a cradle at the front of the traveling arm to hold the horn,. Someone out there must know what it's for. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > Isn't that left over from the earlier front mount configuration? > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 11:53 AM > To: Phono L List > Subject: [Phono-L] Hardware on Victor M > > There's a Victor M on eBay. It's item # 330384586157. Theres a > piece > on the back to the left of the backmount that I'm not sure what it is for. > If you look at picture #11 on the auctiion you can see it clearly. I have > a > similar Victor M with this part on it. What's it for? > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rvuill at comcast.net Tue Dec 8 05:33:00 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:33:00 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem References: Message-ID: I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying to adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the Maroon on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. Thanks. Bob V From bruce at accoladeeng.com Tue Dec 8 10:10:53 2009 From: bruce at accoladeeng.com (Bruce) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:10:53 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Bob, Try going to an automotive paint store and having the color of your Gem matched. I did this for a Maroon Gem with an Acrylic Enamel and you could not tell the difference under any lighting. Bruce Peterson -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:33 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying to adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the Maroon on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. Thanks. Bob V _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From appywander at hotmail.com Tue Dec 8 10:53:02 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 13:53:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem In-Reply-To: <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> References: , <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: Wyatt Marcus used 1984 VW Rabbit LS "Mahogany Red" auto paint to restore the bedplate of Amberola I-A serial #2. That should be the same as a Maroon Gem, shouldn't it? c.f.: http://www.edisondiamonddisc.com > From: bruce at accoladeeng.com > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:10:53 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem > > Bob, > > Try going to an automotive paint store and having the color of your Gem > matched. I did this for a Maroon Gem with an Acrylic Enamel and you could > not tell the difference under any lighting. > > Bruce Peterson > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:33 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem > > I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good > shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone > but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color > by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under > the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to > tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors > and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down > stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying to > > adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on > Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were > fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it > by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark > and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a > good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the Maroon > > on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. > Thanks. > Bob V > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From smstitt at gmail.com Tue Dec 8 10:53:21 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 10:53:21 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem In-Reply-To: <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> References: <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912081053l4773a82fs887c37f1562dadad@mail.gmail.com> Bruce is right. Napa will mix it and put it in a spray can. However If you get it wrong it will bug you more, and devalue the horn. If the whole horn needs repainting is one thing. Touch up hardly ever works. I'm from the leave it alone school and I love the battle scars. I never thought 85 year old women wearing make up looked right. Men too. 95% of the time the best care to an antique is do nothing. Do nothing you cannot reverse. Love that horn for it's well earned patina, imho. Oldcranky On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Bruce wrote: > Bob, > > Try going to an automotive paint store and having the color of your Gem > matched. I did this for a Maroon Gem with an Acrylic Enamel and you could > not tell the difference under any lighting. > > Bruce Peterson > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] > On > Behalf Of Bob > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:33 AM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem > > I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good > shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone > but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color > by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under > the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to > tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors > and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down > stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying > to > > adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on > Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were > fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it > by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark > and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a > good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the > Maroon > > on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. > Thanks. > Bob V > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From appywander at hotmail.com Tue Dec 8 11:07:18 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:07:18 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem In-Reply-To: References: , Message-ID: One should also keep in mind that these machines are not 'painted', but rather the coating is tinted shellac. > From: rvuill at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 08:33:00 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem > > I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good > shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone > but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color > by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under > the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to > tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors > and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down > stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying to > adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on > Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were > fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it > by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark > and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a > good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the Maroon > on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. > Thanks. > Bob V > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Tue Dec 8 11:15:53 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 14:15:53 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <005f01ca783a$dcbb5020$75d6299b@ad.bu.edu> If you are happy mixing paints, you could try the stuff Testors sells in little bottles for model car/plane painting. There are a lot of colors and they are not too expensive to play around with. I get mine at the local (North Attleboro, MA) hobby/train shop. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 8:33 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching color by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good under the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter colors and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying to adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These were fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken it by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too dark and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get a good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the Maroon on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips alone. Thanks. Bob V _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rvuill at comcast.net Tue Dec 8 12:27:13 2009 From: rvuill at comcast.net (Bob) Date: Tue, 8 Dec 2009 15:27:13 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem References: <20091208184231.20CF72F7C08@mail.intellitechcomputing.com> <7e8e90ff0912081053l4773a82fs887c37f1562dadad@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Mike, It's not the horn that needs paint. There's a big chip on the gear cover and a couple on the body casting just above the Edison logo. I agree with you on touchup. If I can't get it perfect I won't do it. The nice thing about using nail polish is that you can remove it fairly easily without disturbing the original paint. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Stitt" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:53 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem > Bruce is right. > Napa will mix it and put it in a spray can. However If you get it wrong it > will bug you more, and devalue the horn. If the whole horn needs > repainting > is one thing. Touch up hardly ever works. I'm from the leave it alone > school > and I love the battle scars. I never thought 85 year old women wearing > make > up looked right. Men too. 95% of the time the best care to an antique is > do > nothing. Do nothing you cannot reverse. Love that horn for it's well > earned > patina, imho. > Oldcranky > > On Tue, Dec 8, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Bruce wrote: > >> Bob, >> >> Try going to an automotive paint store and having the color of your Gem >> matched. I did this for a Maroon Gem with an Acrylic Enamel and you could >> not tell the difference under any lighting. >> >> Bruce Peterson >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] >> On >> Behalf Of Bob >> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:33 AM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: [Phono-L] Paint for a Maroon Gem >> >> I'm restoring an Edison Maroon Gem. The paint is really in pretty good >> shape except for a few chips. Initially I was going to leave them alone >> but they are really bugging me. I thought I could find the matching >> color >> by checking nail polish colors. I found one that looked pretty good >> under >> the store lighting but in natural daylight it doesn't match. I'm going to >> tinker with it to see if I can improve the match by painting lighter >> colors >> and shades under it. I do this on a piece of sheet metal. I lay down >> stripes of different colors and then run a stripe of the color I'm trying >> to >> >> adjust across the stripes. I've been able to match the browns used on >> Edison Amberola V and VI's pretty closely with this technique. These >> were >> fairly easy because I had a brown that was close and only had to darken >> it >> by adding black. With the Maroon nail polish I have the color is too >> dark >> and probably should be a little redder so I'm not too confident I can get >> a >> good match. Do any of you know a source for a paint that matches the >> Maroon >> >> on Edison Gems? If I can't get a good match I will leave the chips >> alone. >> Thanks. >> Bob V >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From klinger at modex.com Wed Dec 9 16:04:10 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 19:04:10 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Preservation Grants -- Deadline Reminder Message-ID: <3D04169C00054CE98AC822C8C0654513@WEKDesktop> The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. If you have any questions, please click on the link or e-mail address below. --- ARSC PRESERVATION GRANTS PROGRAM: DEADLINE REMINDER --- Deadline for receipt of applications: December 15, 2009 The ARSC Program for the Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings was founded by Al Schlachtmeyer and the ARSC Board of Directors to encourage and support the preservation of historically significant sound recordings of Western Art Music by individuals and organizations. (This program is separate from the ARSC Research Grants Program, which supports scholarship and publication in the fields of sound recording research and audio preservation.) The ARSC Program for the Preservation of Classical Music Historical Recordings will consider funding: -- Projects involving preservation, in any valid and reasonable fashion, such as providing a collection with proper climate control, moving a collection to facilities with proper storage conditions, re-sleeving a collection of discs, setting up a volunteer project to organize and inventory a stored collection, rescuing recordings from danger, copying recordings from endangered or unstable media, etc. -- Projects promoting public access to recordings. -- Projects involving commercial as well as private, instantaneous recordings. -- Projects involving collections anywhere in the world. (Non-U.S. applicants are encouraged to apply.) The program is administered by an ARSC Grants Committee including the chairman, a member of the ARSC Technical Committee, a member of the ARSC Associated Audio Archives Committee, and an expert on classical music. Grant amounts generally range from $2,000 to $10,000. Grant projects should be completed within 24 months. Written notification of decisions on projects will be made approximately three months after the submission deadline. Send completed applications to: Richard Warren Jr., ARSC Grants Program, Historical Sound Recordings, Yale Music Library, P.O. Box 208240, New Haven, CT 06520-8240, USA. Grant applications must be received by December 15, 2009. For further details, guidelines, and application instructions, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/preservationgrants.html Questions about the Preservation Grants Program should be directed to Mr. Warren at richard.warren at yale.edu The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From klinger at modex.com Thu Dec 10 16:16:12 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:16:12 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Conference 2010 -- Save the Dates Message-ID: <602BDAF0D8754EA2A746E65A3DAD1F36@WEKDesktop> The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. --- SAVE THE DATES: 2010 ARSC CONFERENCE, NEW ORLEANS, LOUISIANA --- The 44th annual ARSC Conference will be held at the Chateau Bourbon, 800 Iberville Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, May 19-22, 2010. The Chateau Bourbon is located in the historic French Quarter. Nearby points of interest include the National D-Day Museum, the Historic New Orleans Collection, Audubon Zoo, and Preservation Hall. A block of rooms has been reserved at the special conference rate of $129, single or double. For those who require additional information for budgetary purposes, please refer to the 2009 conference webpage (http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference/2009/). We anticipate that fees for 2010 will be equivalent. More information about the 2010 conference will be posted at: http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference/ Questions regarding the conference should be directed to Brenda Nelson-Strauss, ARSC Conference Manager, at bnelsons at indiana.edu The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From klinger at modex.com Thu Dec 10 16:27:29 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Thu, 10 Dec 2009 19:27:29 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Conference 2010 -- Call for Presentations -- Deadline Reminder Message-ID: <4F54C480CA914E10B4CBF3B125062B4D@WEKDesktop> The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. --- DEADLINE REMINDER: 2010 ARSC CONFERENCE, CALL FOR PRESENTATIONS --- Proposal deadline: January 4, 2010 The Association for Recorded Sound Collections invites proposals for presentations at its 44th annual conference, to be held May 19-22, 2010, in one of the most fascinating cultural centers in America, New Orleans, Louisiana. The conference will take place at the historic Chateau Bourbon, located in the heart of the French Quarter. ARSC welcomes presentations on the preservation and study of sound recordings in all genres of music and speech, in any format, and from any period. The enthusiastic audience will be drawn from our community of collectors, historians, musicians, preservationists, and archivists. In general, we give preference to demonstrations, papers, and panels that are informative, well organized, and include compelling audio and visual content, presented by people who display a passion about their subjects. Presentations may deal with technical issues such as preservation and archives management or with content-related topics such as discography, repertoire, and artist profiles. This year we especially welcome presentations that showcase New Orleans and the surrounding area and their rich recording heritage. The deadline for receiving presentation proposals is January 4, 2010. Receipt will be acknowledged by e-mail. Presenters will be notified of acceptance by January 31, 2010. For more information and the Call for Presentations form, visit: http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference/pdf/2010call.rtf General conference information can be found at: http://www.arsc-audio.org/conference/ Tim Brooks ARSC Program Chair tim at timbrooks.net The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From vtm12 at comcast.net Fri Dec 11 07:10:44 2009 From: vtm12 at comcast.net (Vince C.) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 10:10:44 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] For Sale In-Reply-To: <601626.85040.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <1204210502.5081911254000925886.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><207064.13140.qm@web83712.mail.sp1.yahoo.com><582187.56515.qm@web83703.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> <601626.85040.qm@web54302.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B58601668AA4B74BD8D9D0AC635D367@DG86T661> Hi All, I have some items for sale, please follow the link for pictures and email directly with questions. http://home.comcast.net/~vtm12/sale/sale.html Below is a very brief description since everyone here knows what these items are. If you need additional details or have questions please email me. 1. Original Victor His Master's Voice dealer print. $2100 2. Mira music box. Double-comb 9" $2200 3. Edison Portrait. $600 4. Columbia AJ, all original no repro parts. Super condition with the exception of the turntable shaft is slightly bent so turntable wobbles, doesn't affect playing of machine, $1150 5. Anthony Visco Nipper, limited edition with original box. $90 All items do not include shipping. Most of the items above I would simply take to a UPS store and the buyer can pay them directly for shipping via a credit card. Also pickup is available in Collegeville, PA. Thanks, Vince From David at FairLibertysCall.com Fri Dec 11 12:52:06 2009 From: David at FairLibertysCall.com (David Barnett) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:52:06 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? Message-ID: To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all of you): I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints how to do it? If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email one to met. Thanks you very much. David Barnett David Barnett David at FairLibertysCall.com 516-767-0675 www.FairLibertysCall.com From cdh041 at earthlink.net Fri Dec 11 14:23:14 2009 From: cdh041 at earthlink.net (Douglas Houston) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:23:14 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? Message-ID: <410-2200912511222314515@earthlink.net> I'm pretty sure that they used Shellac. Wax wouldn't set up hard enough to hold through many plays. Any of them I've seen, on any sound box was just a dab to cover the head of the secrew, and bond to the diaphragm. > [Original Message] > From: David Barnett > To: > Date: 12/11/2009 4:23:02 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? > > To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all > of you): > > I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new > diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax > in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand > what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the > screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That > way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have > it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints > how to do it? > > If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email > one to met. > > Thanks you very much. > > David Barnett > > David Barnett David at FairLibertysCall.com > 516-767-0675 www.FairLibertysCall.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Dec 11 14:51:42 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:51:42 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Soldering iron, the idea of the wax is to make it airtight. I place the wax on top, heat the needle bar and the wax melts and wicks in. The directions from Victor say you should have the needle bar barely touch the mica, but after I connect the screw I sound test and I have found if I adjust the bar slightly away from the mica the sound is better. Like the copper diaphragms of Edison I have found that the mica diaphragm that has a high ring has a better sound than those with a dull ring. Those of use who are of age will remember if you take a sliver quarter and spin it and let it fall it has a higher ring than the copper/nickel ones. For those young ones take a penny before 1982 and compare it with a new one, the old copper one has a higher ring than the new copper plated zinc ones. The old used, delaminated mica does not have the same ring as quality mica. I say that because some of the new mica is not good and has a dull ring. Any comments or corrections are welcome. Steve > > > To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all > of you): > > I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new > diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax > in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand > what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the > screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That > way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have > it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints > how to do it? > > If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email > one to met. > > Thanks you very much. > > David Barnett > > David Barnett David at FairLibertysCall.com > 516-767-0675 www.FairLibertysCall.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Fri Dec 11 14:27:11 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 17:27:11 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00a101ca7ab1$15a1b640$40e522c0$@edu> The wax should just surround the outside of the screw inside the reproducer, and on the outside the wax should be on the screw threads and just surround the outer edge of the needle bar. I usually heat mine up with a small tip soldering iron. I think it is to make an air seal and to keep the screw from vibrating loose. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of David Barnett Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:52 PM To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all of you): I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints how to do it? If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email one to met. Thanks you very much. David Barnett David Barnett David at FairLibertysCall.com 516-767-0675 www.FairLibertysCall.com _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rich-mail at octoxol.com Fri Dec 11 16:10:22 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:10:22 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? In-Reply-To: <410-2200912511222314515@earthlink.net> References: <410-2200912511222314515@earthlink.net> Message-ID: <4B22DF6E.1030301@octoxol.com> You can either melt a drop on the screw head and diaphragm, or mix up a heavy cut of seed lac or something like that and put a dab on with a brush. Douglas Houston wrote: > I'm pretty sure that they used Shellac. Wax wouldn't set up hard enough to > hold through many plays. Any of them I've seen, on any sound box was just > a dab to cover the head of the secrew, and bond to the diaphragm. > > >> [Original Message] >> From: David Barnett >> To: >> Date: 12/11/2009 4:23:02 PM >> Subject: [Phono-L] How to 'wax' a Victor Exhibition 2 soundbox? >> >> To all you phono-phanatics more knowledgeable than I (pretty much all >> of you): >> >> I rebuilt an Exhibition 2 soundbox with new gaskets and a new >> diaphragm. What a difference! But I'm not sure I got the drop of wax >> in the right position on the screw and the diaphragm. If I understand >> what should happen it should not just ball up on the head of the >> screw, it should flow around the screw and onto the diaphragm. That >> way there's a good transfer of the vibrations. I don't think I have >> it right yet. How far onto the diaphragm should it flow? Any hints >> how to do it? >> >> If you have a good picture of how it should look, feel free to email >> one to met. >> >> Thanks you very much. >> >> David Barnett >> >> David Barnett David at FairLibertysCall.com >> 516-767-0675 www.FairLibertysCall.com >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > From steve_noreen at msn.com Sat Dec 12 10:42:54 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 13:42:54 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Miller Morris blanks? Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330383823997 From phonolist at cylinder.de Sun Dec 13 03:23:28 2009 From: phonolist at cylinder.de (Norman Bruderhofer) Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2009 12:23:28 +0100 Subject: [Phono-L] Miller Morris blanks? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4B24CEB0.6050509@cylinder.de> They look different nowadays: http://snurl.com/tnwvx This one must be ca. 20 years old. On 12.12.2009 19:42, Steven Medved wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330383823997 > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Mon Dec 14 12:30:44 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 20:30:44 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Victor II on ebay Message-ID: <1782624626.1407161260822644796.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370303962111&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT Does anyone know whether the Victor II shown here is legit ? It appears to have both a gold plated tone arm and reproducer. I was not aware that the Victor II was issued with those features. Also look at the crank, it appears to be a little long for this machine, see the first photo where it appears if you continued cranking the phonograph the horn would hit the top of the table. What's up with this ? Bruce From phonographs at charter.net Mon Dec 14 13:55:57 2009 From: phonographs at charter.net (SM) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 13:55:57 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Victor II on ebay In-Reply-To: <1782624626.1407161260822644796.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <20091214165557.CJRIR.649194.root@mp11> Hi Bruce; My educated guess is this tone arm and reproducer had the nickel plating removed or polished off. If you look at the horn elbow, bullet brake, etc, these are all nickel plated. I don't believe these parts are from a Victrola only because of the way the tonearm connects to the horn assembly and back bracket. Scott. From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Mon Dec 14 15:06:54 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:06:54 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Victor II on ebay Message-ID: HI ALL it appears to me that all the nickel is off it does not appear to be gold plated zono In a message dated 12/14/2009 4:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bruce78rpm at comcast.net writes: =370303962111 From john9ten at pacbell.net Mon Dec 14 15:25:00 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 15:25:00 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay Message-ID: <965468.40760.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Hi All Hope you're having a stress free holiday season so far! A friend of mine wants to buy an MS that is on eBay right now, but I have reservations. It has the holes exposed for the front mount hardware (no plug), and it has holes from a back bracket, but it is a three hole pattern like a Columbia back bracket would have. Also it has a turntable hold down (but no turntable) and the early spring brake, which are correct. Would this have had a 7 inch turntable? And not having seen a Victor rigid arm back bracket, did it have two holes or three? The guy says the crank is original which it is obviously not, so I am curious as to if this is not a wise buy (I expect it is not). Here is the number 330387159356. Thanks! John Robles From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Mon Dec 14 16:42:21 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 00:42:21 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Victor II on ebay In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1766973897.1504011260837741592.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> How Sid, A Victor II without the Nickel Plating is like a Hot Fudge Sundae without its whipped Cream, nuts and cherry !! Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:06:54 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Victor II on ebay HI ALL it appears to me that all the nickel is off it does not appear to be gold plated zono In a message dated 12/14/2009 4:33:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, bruce78rpm at comcast.net writes: =370303962111 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From klinger at modex.com Mon Dec 14 18:00:55 2009 From: klinger at modex.com (Bill Klinger) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 21:00:55 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] ARSC Pre-Conference Workshop 2010 Message-ID: <9C332D95C0A3476BA18C0C38051890C0@WEKDesktop> The Outreach Committee of the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) posts the following message. --- ARSC PRE-CONFERENCE WORKSHOP 2010 --- The 2010 ARSC Conference, in New Orleans, Louisiana, kicks off Wednesday May 19 with a workshop on Disaster Planning and Recovery for Audio Materials. Morning sessions include a discussion on lessons learned from Hurricane Katrina, a presentation on choosing vendors for recovery work, and a lively role-play debate between collection managers and cost-conscious administrators. In the afternoon session, participants will get their hands dirty learning basic triage and assessment of damaged audio media, equipment, and related materials. More information about the ARSC Pre-Conference Workshop will be forthcoming in the next few weeks. Questions about the workshop should be directed to Karen Fishman (kfishman at loc.gov) or Aaron Bittel (ambittel at arts.ucla.edu), ARSC Education and Training Committee Co-Chairs. The Association for Recorded Sound Collections is a nonprofit organization dedicated to the preservation and study of sound recordings -- in all genres of music and speech, in all formats, and from all periods. ARSC is unique in bringing together private individuals and institutional professionals -- everyone with a serious interest in recorded sound. From ret.armysgt at yahoo.com Mon Dec 14 18:20:44 2009 From: ret.armysgt at yahoo.com (William Buchanan) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 18:20:44 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 Message-ID: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Friends, It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. Can somebody tell me what I purchased? Ebay item 220523099867 They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? Thank you Bill From john9ten at pacbell.net Mon Dec 14 23:16:23 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:16:23 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <867201.88902.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I wrote to the seller to gently educate her on the item and she said she was going to let the buyer off the hook because she didn't want to be dishonest. Let us know if she sets you free! John Robles. ________________________________ From: William Buchanan To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 Friends, It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. Can somebody tell me what I purchased? Ebay item 220523099867 They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? Thank you Bill _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From esroberto at hotmail.com Tue Dec 15 00:48:26 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 08:48:26 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <867201.88902.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com>, <867201.88902.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Wow. What a kind thing to do, John. Restores a bit of faith in mankind! Way to go. > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:16:23 -0800 > From: john9ten at pacbell.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > I wrote to the seller to gently educate her on the item and she said she was going to let the buyer off the hook because she didn't want to be dishonest. Let us know if she sets you free! > John Robles. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ From john9ten at pacbell.net Tue Dec 15 06:40:06 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john robles) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 06:40:06 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com>, <867201.88902.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <710309.6533.qm@web83001.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, since this was her only phonograph item, I figured she didn't know what she had. People like that are usually thankful for guidance, and she sent me a nice note thanking me for leting her know about it. People that know what they're doing usually send me a nasty note when I educate them. That's when you can tell they are con artists. John Robles ________________________________ From: Robert Wright To: Phono L Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 12:48:26 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 Wow. What a kind thing to do, John. Restores a bit of faith in mankind! Way to go. > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:16:23 -0800 > From: john9ten at pacbell.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > I wrote to the seller to gently educate her on the item and she said she was going to let the buyer off the hook because she didn't want to be dishonest. Let us know if she sets you free! > John Robles. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From smstitt at gmail.com Tue Dec 15 07:30:24 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 07:30:24 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <867201.88902.qm@web83006.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912150730n43d8abe4n974ad410e1902bb7@mail.gmail.com> I'm a little confused and still drinking my coffee. What is the issue here and how was anyone "taken?" Maybe I missed something. eBay is what it is. I seldom buy there but it was a one line description with parts in the title. Three people bid and it went to $31.00. The under bidder was $30.00. Should the seller lose the sale and maybe the under bidder and why? Not trying to be harsh here but it seemed pretty straight up to me. Bidders have obligations too. I will have faith in people when they get a good deal and offer to pay what an item is really worth but that is the essence of an auction after all, imho. That is to say inherent in auctions are you pay what you are willing to pay and "takes your chances." You pay to much, you pay to little, you buy junk, you buy good stuff. BTW I did make a recent buy on eBay, the shipping cost the seller more than quoted (eBay forces the issue), I told the seller I would pay the difference. He wrote back and said I would be the first, I said the CASH is already sent. I have a whopping 115 by my name and a member since early '97. I like to see what I buy and am very risk adverse. I will say eBay is a great source for parts. Oldcranky Mike On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Robert Wright wrote: > > Wow. What a kind thing to do, John. Restores a bit of faith in mankind! > Way to go. > > > > > > Date: Mon, 14 Dec 2009 23:16:23 -0800 > > From: john9ten at pacbell.net > > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > > > I wrote to the seller to gently educate her on the item and she said she > was going to let the buyer off the hook because she didn't want to be > dishonest. Let us know if she sets you free! > > John Robles. > > _________________________________________________________________ > Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. > http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From boruffb at flash.net Tue Dec 15 20:02:22 2009 From: boruffb at flash.net (Bill Boruff) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 22:02:22 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Custom Decals Available..... Message-ID: <6074DB78-B2FB-4693-8339-B9FE05A31C49@flash.net> From antqflea at yahoo.com Tue Dec 15 20:26:48 2009 From: antqflea at yahoo.com (brice paris) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 20:26:48 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> I am a little shocked here. ?Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear.? A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract? win or lose.???What am I missing??? ________________________________ From: William Buchanan To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 Friends, It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. Can somebody tell me what I purchased? Ebay item 220523099867 They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? Thank you Bill ? ? ? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From loran at oldcrank.com Tue Dec 15 21:08:19 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran T. Hughes) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 21:08:19 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <998dac550912152108w349318b0rdca9dee5644f4c42@mail.gmail.com> I'm confused, too. I didn't see any misrepresentation and the seller clearly labelled it for what it is... buyer's remorse more than anything here? Loran On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:26 PM, brice paris wrote: > I am a little shocked here. ?Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear.? A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract? win or lose.???What am I missing??? From harveykravitz at yahoo.com Tue Dec 15 23:34:28 2009 From: harveykravitz at yahoo.com (harvey kravitz) Date: Tue, 15 Dec 2009 23:34:28 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <998dac550912152108w349318b0rdca9dee5644f4c42@mail.gmail.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <998dac550912152108w349318b0rdca9dee5644f4c42@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <636873.5071.qm@web54307.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Too bad, so sad. I agree that the buyers have a responsibility to research the item before bidding. At least he didn't pay hundreds of dollars for a crapophone I have no sympathy for the buyer, what-so-ever. Harvey Kravitz. ________________________________ From: Loran T. Hughes To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tue, December 15, 2009 9:08:19 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 I'm confused, too. I didn't see any misrepresentation and the seller clearly labelled it for what it is... buyer's remorse more than anything here? Loran On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 8:26 PM, briceparis wrote: > I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I missing??? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From zonophone2006 at aol.com Wed Dec 16 03:26:46 2009 From: zonophone2006 at aol.com (zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 06:26:46 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <8CC4C59C90B4FCD-4308-A37@webmail-d088.sysops.aol.com> brice i so agree with you ebay is cavet emptor and this machine was cheap enough even if just for parts i am sure we have all spent more than that on a meal out happy holidays to all zono -----Original Message----- From: brice paris To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tue, Dec 15, 2009 11:26 pm Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I missing??? ________________________________ From: William Buchanan To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 Friends, It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. Can somebody tell me what I purchased? Ebay item 220523099867 They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? Thank you Bill _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org hi i From barry.kasindorf at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 08:29:51 2009 From: barry.kasindorf at gmail.com (Barry Kasindorf) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 11:29:51 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4B290AFF.3050509@barrykasindorf.com> I think that many Ebay sellers claim ignorance about what the phono they are selling really is when they know full well it is junk. If this was a real onsite auction or estate sale you could more closely examine a piece, get a better feel for it and make a decision. No matter how many pictures you have on Ebay you really don't have the same feeling for an item as you do in person. Saying buyer beware is simplistic in this situation. You still need some sense of honesty and cooperation from the seller if there was a misunderstanding of what the item is instead of the usual glee taken when a novice collector or even a older collector in a hurry misunderstands what is for sale and gets taken. -Barry On 12/15/2009 11:26 PM, brice paris wrote: > I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I missing??? > > > > > ________________________________ > From: William Buchanan > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > Friends, > > It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. > > Can somebody tell me what I purchased? > > Ebay item 220523099867 > > They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? > > Thank you Bill > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From smstitt at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 09:20:53 2009 From: smstitt at gmail.com (Mike Stitt) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:20:53 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <4B290AFF.3050509@barrykasindorf.com> References: <79684.75662.qm@web57514.mail.re1.yahoo.com> <590493.50296.qm@web112507.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> <4B290AFF.3050509@barrykasindorf.com> Message-ID: <7e8e90ff0912160920r57f07d57i813536b102c819dc@mail.gmail.com> The inability to see the item up close should temper what you are willing to pay! People that shell out $15k on a picture in front of them have more money or guts than I do or can afford...i.e the buyer determines the outcome. eBay has tried with many schemes to instill confidence in their sellers integrity. The final price is up to you. If you can gamble your money on a picture with someone you really don't know so be it.....It seems to work. Just remember you decided to buy it with what knowledge you have in hand. I never write eBay sellers re: what they are selling, not to protect them or the buyer. Education is really their job. You want to put a Vic 6 with a BIN of $100 fine, you want to buy a crapophone for 1K fine. Like falling off a horse you will quickly learn to hang on. Oldcranky On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 8:29 AM, Barry Kasindorf wrote: > I think that many Ebay sellers claim ignorance about what the phono they > are selling really is when they know full well it is junk. > If this was a real onsite auction or estate sale you could more closely > examine a piece, get a better feel for it and make a decision. No matter how > many pictures you have on Ebay you really don't have the same feeling for an > item as you do in person. > Saying buyer beware is simplistic in this situation. You still need some > sense of honesty and cooperation from the seller if there was a > misunderstanding of what the item is instead of the usual glee taken when a > novice collector or even a older collector in a hurry misunderstands what is > for sale and gets taken. > -Barry > > > > On 12/15/2009 11:26 PM, brice paris wrote: > >> I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not >> seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a >> responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I >> missing??? >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: William Buchanan >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM >> Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> Friends, >> >> It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is >> that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at >> least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. >> >> Can somebody tell me what I purchased? >> >> Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? >> >> Thank you Bill >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Wed Dec 16 10:10:19 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:10:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: <4B290AFF.3050509@barrykasindorf.com> Message-ID: <538212756.2185891260987019918.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Sorry, I came in late on this. Someone obviously attached the ID plate for an Orthophonic table model to another Victor. But which Victor did they attach it to ? and what was that crazy little turntable from ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Barry Kasindorf" To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:29:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 I think that many Ebay sellers claim ignorance about what the phono they are selling really is when they know full well it is junk. If this was a real onsite auction or estate sale you could more closely examine a piece, get a better feel for it and make a decision. No matter how many pictures you have on Ebay you really don't have the same feeling for an item as you do in person. Saying buyer beware is simplistic in this situation. You still need some sense of honesty and cooperation from the seller if there was a misunderstanding of what the item is instead of the usual glee taken when a novice collector or even a older collector in a hurry misunderstands what is for sale and gets taken. -Barry On 12/15/2009 11:26 PM, brice paris wrote: > I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I missing??? > > > > > ________________________________ > From: William Buchanan > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > Friends, > > It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. > > Can somebody tell me what I purchased? > > Ebay item 220523099867 > > They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? > > Thank you Bill > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From gbogantz1 at charter.net Wed Dec 16 11:38:02 2009 From: gbogantz1 at charter.net (Greg Bogantz) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:38:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 References: <538212756.2185891260987019918.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: The motor is a modern electric type - you can see the rubber idler wheel, and the platter is a modern type, probably matching the motor assembly. The cabinet looks homemade. It appears that the only collectible part on it is the ID tag. Greg Bogantz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > Sorry, I came in late on this. Someone obviously attached the ID plate for > an Orthophonic table model to another Victor. But which Victor did they > attach it to ? and what was that crazy little turntable from ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barry Kasindorf" > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:29:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > I think that many Ebay sellers claim ignorance about what the phono they > are selling really is when they know full well it is junk. > If this was a real onsite auction or estate sale you could more closely > examine a piece, get a better feel for it and make a decision. No matter > how many pictures you have on Ebay you really don't have the same > feeling for an item as you do in person. > Saying buyer beware is simplistic in this situation. You still need some > sense of honesty and cooperation from the seller if there was a > misunderstanding of what the item is instead of the usual glee taken > when a novice collector or even a older collector in a hurry > misunderstands what is for sale and gets taken. > -Barry > > > On 12/15/2009 11:26 PM, brice paris wrote: >> I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not >> seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a >> responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I >> missing??? >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: William Buchanan >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM >> Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> Friends, >> >> It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is >> that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at >> least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. >> >> Can somebody tell me what I purchased? >> >> Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? >> >> Thank you Bill >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisone1 at verizon.net Wed Dec 16 11:10:20 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 14:10:20 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 References: <538212756.2185891260987019918.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <2E93BB5BE4AD417DAB3F0A99E157EF8A@moms> Crapophone base, methinks ... they love those fake 1-90 plates ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > Sorry, I came in late on this. Someone obviously attached the ID plate for > an Orthophonic table model to another Victor. But which Victor did they > attach it to ? and what was that crazy little turntable from ? > ----- Original Message ----- From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Wed Dec 16 14:06:28 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 22:06:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <857612857.2287311261001188040.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Wow, sounds like the ultimate in Crapophone Horror Shows !! Someone should grab and axe and smash it to pieces !! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Bogantz" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 2:38:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 The motor is a modern electric type - you can see the rubber idler wheel, and the platter is a modern type, probably matching the motor assembly. The cabinet looks homemade. It appears that the only collectible part on it is the ID tag. Greg Bogantz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > Sorry, I came in late on this. Someone obviously attached the ID plate for > an Orthophonic table model to another Victor. But which Victor did they > attach it to ? and what was that crazy little turntable from ? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Barry Kasindorf" > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Sent: Wednesday, December 16, 2009 11:29:51 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 > > I think that many Ebay sellers claim ignorance about what the phono they > are selling really is when they know full well it is junk. > If this was a real onsite auction or estate sale you could more closely > examine a piece, get a better feel for it and make a decision. No matter > how many pictures you have on Ebay you really don't have the same > feeling for an item as you do in person. > Saying buyer beware is simplistic in this situation. You still need some > sense of honesty and cooperation from the seller if there was a > misunderstanding of what the item is instead of the usual glee taken > when a novice collector or even a older collector in a hurry > misunderstands what is for sale and gets taken. > -Barry > > > On 12/15/2009 11:26 PM, brice paris wrote: >> I am a little shocked here. Not sure who is being taken, item does not >> seem to be misrepresented and the pictures are clear. A bidder has a >> responsibility to follow through on their contract win or lose. What am I >> missing??? >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >> From: William Buchanan >> To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> Sent: Mon, December 14, 2009 6:20:44 PM >> Subject: [Phono-L] What did I buy? Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> Friends, >> >> It's a hard thing to admit that you've been taken, but the good thing is >> that it was not for much and I have not paid him yet. But if this is at >> least a real Victrola I will have no problems paying him. >> >> Can somebody tell me what I purchased? >> >> Ebay item 220523099867 >> >> They said it is a Victrola VV I-90 but it's not so what is this? >> >> Thank you Bill >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Wed Dec 16 21:39:24 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 21:39:24 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Custom Decals Available..... In-Reply-To: <6074DB78-B2FB-4693-8339-B9FE05A31C49@flash.net> References: <6074DB78-B2FB-4693-8339-B9FE05A31C49@flash.net> Message-ID: <4b29c419.0f0bca0a.2927.29da@mx.google.com> COOL! I need a decal for a Fern-O-Grand. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Bill Boruff Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 8:02 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Custom Decals Available..... _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.110/2568 - Release Date: 12/16/09 08:02:00 From edisone1 at verizon.net Sat Dec 19 13:25:28 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:25:28 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay References: <965468.40760.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: It went for $835 . I'd sell mine for less than that, and I have everything but a horn. Didn't know they were so desirable ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "john robles" To: Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay > Hi All > Hope you're having a stress free holiday season so far! > A friend of mine wants to buy an MS that is on eBay right now, but I have > reservations. It has the holes exposed for the front mount hardware (no > plug), and it has holes from a back bracket, but it is a three hole > pattern like a Columbia back bracket would have. Also it has a turntable > hold down (but no turntable) and the early spring brake, which are > correct. Would this have had a 7 inch turntable? And not having seen a > Victor rigid arm back bracket, did it have two holes or three? The guy > says the crank is original which it is obviously not, so I am curious as > to if this is not a wise buy (I expect it is not). > Here is the number 330387159356. > Thanks! > John Robles From jay.horenstein at gmail.com Sat Dec 19 14:40:05 2009 From: jay.horenstein at gmail.com (Jay Horenstein) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 14:40:05 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <965468.40760.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4b2d5647.1502be0a.08de.fffffcce@mx.google.com> Mine has the spear tip horn, and is showroom new. I paid $5600 retail. Fabrizios book values it at between $4000 and $6000. -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of DanKj Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:25 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay It went for $835 . I'd sell mine for less than that, and I have everything but a horn. Didn't know they were so desirable ... ----- Original Message ----- From: "john robles" To: Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:25 PM Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay > Hi All > Hope you're having a stress free holiday season so far! > A friend of mine wants to buy an MS that is on eBay right now, but I have > reservations. It has the holes exposed for the front mount hardware (no > plug), and it has holes from a back bracket, but it is a three hole > pattern like a Columbia back bracket would have. Also it has a turntable > hold down (but no turntable) and the early spring brake, which are > correct. Would this have had a 7 inch turntable? And not having seen a > Victor rigid arm back bracket, did it have two holes or three? The guy > says the crank is original which it is obviously not, so I am curious as > to if this is not a wise buy (I expect it is not). > Here is the number 330387159356. > Thanks! > John Robles _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.427 / Virus Database: 270.14.114/2575 - Release Date: 12/19/09 08:33:00 From dan at old-phonographs.com Sat Dec 19 17:53:40 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 17:53:40 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay In-Reply-To: References: <965468.40760.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <57BD30571A56408AA7042C03862CD95D@danPC> I think $835 is a true deal. A screaming deal! Much less than 1/2 of what there were going for just a few years ago. I still think they are worth considerably more, but who know how much now. It just depends on who it looking and the shape it's in. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "DanKj" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 1:25 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay > It went for $835 . I'd sell mine for less than that, and I have > everything but a horn. Didn't know they were so desirable ... > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "john robles" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 6:25 PM > Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay > > >> Hi All >> Hope you're having a stress free holiday season so far! >> A friend of mine wants to buy an MS that is on eBay right now, but I have >> reservations. It has the holes exposed for the front mount hardware (no >> plug), and it has holes from a back bracket, but it is a three hole >> pattern like a Columbia back bracket would have. Also it has a turntable >> hold down (but no turntable) and the early spring brake, which are >> correct. Would this have had a 7 inch turntable? And not having seen a >> Victor rigid arm back bracket, did it have two holes or three? The guy >> says the crank is original which it is obviously not, so I am curious as >> to if this is not a wise buy (I expect it is not). >> Here is the number 330387159356. >> Thanks! >> John Robles > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisone1 at verizon.net Sun Dec 20 00:18:24 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sun, 20 Dec 2009 03:18:24 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay References: <965468.40760.qm@web83004.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: I must apologize to the several people who've contacted me about my Monarch - I really meant to add "but now I know better" to the statement below! After selling an old car for $400 and seeing it (not just similar - the actual same car!) sell within weeks on ebay for over $2200, I've got to learn the value of my stuff before giving it away. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DanKj" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Saturday, December 19, 2009 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Friend needs advice on Victor MS on eBay > "It went for $835 . I'd sell mine for less than that " From dan at old-phonographs.com Mon Dec 21 08:47:38 2009 From: dan at old-phonographs.com (Daniel Melvin) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 08:47:38 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola Electiric motor shutoff question Message-ID: Does anyone have any information on the rather complicated geared switch mechinism on an electric Columbia motor? I have a machine where that mechinism seems to have frozen up which was keeping the motor from running. I took it apart and stared at it quite a lot and cannot even figure out how it works. It has a bunch of gears and a cam that turns the motor off and on. To get the machine working I disconnected the gear attached to the tonearm and rigged a manual switch for the motor. It works great, but I would really like to restore the original switch mechinism if anyone has suggestions or information on it. I have all the original parts, but the switch lost me in the dust. And, I thought Edison made complicated machines! This switch is amazing. Thanks Dan From gbogantz1 at charter.net Mon Dec 21 17:21:24 2009 From: gbogantz1 at charter.net (Greg Bogantz) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:21:24 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola Electiric motor shutoff question References: Message-ID: <8BAC94835A004EA2965C36FF84D46917@gbhpa1514n> I'm not familiar with this type of Columbia electric motor, but it sounds like it may be a variant that includes the Columbia "non-set auto-stop" mechanism that was used on the more expensive spring motor models. I have a Columbia electric motor model, but the switch mechanism is simple and is merely coupled to the tonearm by a lever. Some of our readers have probably worked on the non-set auto-stop spring motors and can perhaps help you to figure out how it works. It's a clever design and somewhat complicated. I don't know if there is any documentation available on how to service these, but it would be a valuable addition to the phono literature. Greg Bogantz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Daniel Melvin" To: "Phono-L at oldcrank.org" Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 11:47 AM Subject: [Phono-L] Columbia Grafonola Electiric motor shutoff question > Does anyone have any information on the rather complicated > geared switch mechinism on an electric Columbia motor? I have a machine > where that mechinism seems to have frozen up which was keeping the motor > from running. I took it apart and stared at it quite a lot and cannot even > figure out how it works. It has a bunch of gears and a cam that turns the > motor off and on. > > To get the machine working I disconnected the gear attached to the tonearm > and rigged a manual switch for the motor. It works great, but I would > really > like to restore the original switch mechinism if anyone has suggestions or > information on it. I have all the original parts, but the switch lost me > in > the dust. > > And, I thought Edison made complicated machines! This switch is amazing. > > Thanks > > Dan > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Mon Dec 21 19:56:20 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 20:56:20 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E question Message-ID: <674A660C-45A5-489B-9DD4-C97C94932631@popyrus.com> I see in Frow that the 4-minute only Edison Standard model E had the same basic mechanism as the combination model D, but with the 2-minute gearing blocked off. Can anyone tell me if the 2-minute gears are there, and can be put in service without damaging anything through modification? If the gears aren't there, can it be set up to work in 2-minute mode if the 2-minute gearing is found? Finally, if this can be done, will the 2-minute gearing from the Model D make it work, or possibly anything borrowed from an Edison retrofit combination gear set? Thanks in advance for any insight on this. Andy From markelynch at earthlink.net Mon Dec 21 20:02:25 2009 From: markelynch at earthlink.net (Mark Lynch) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:02:25 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Moving Services-->John Wrasse's Upcoming Schedule! Message-ID: <380-22009122224225515@earthlink.net> Happy Holidays For those of you looking for a careful mover I heartily recommend John Wrasse. He has moved many pieces for me and regularly serves Jasper SanFillippo and some of the high profile guys. His rates are reasonable but not the cheapest. Unlike two other movers I have used John has provided quick service and without damage. Mark [Original Message] > From: > Date: 12/21/2009 7:25:26 PM > Subject: John Wrasse's Upcoming Schedule! > > > Happy Holidays!! > > Soon after the new year, John Wrasse "Piano Pro Moving and Storage" will > be routing from Bellevue IA (home base) to Denver and Colorado Springs CO > returning on Interstate 70 through Kansas City and Saint Louis MO, > Illinois and Iowa. > > After returning from Colorado, John will head east to Florida ~ > > We still have space availability at this time ~ > > Please let us know if you have any questions for John or would like a > quote for any upcoming move! > > John Wrasse moves any mechanical machine and device up to and including > band organs, the largest orchestrian, player grand pianos, complete > antique collections and private museums. John completes the job from > disassembly, packaging, loading, transporting, reassembly and test for > your orchestrian, player grand or any other mechanical musical instrument. > > "Piano Pro Moving" gives a personalized service. John Wrasse has 25 years > of experience in full time piano moving and restoration. John oversees > and directs every aspect of each move with competence and expertise from > pickup to delivery. He also specializes in rare and valuable antique > pianos and is a member of the AMICA Music Collectors Association. > > If you are interested in "John Wrasse's travels" let us know ~ I will > continue to post updates!! > > Thank You! > Donna Mae > (563)580-5035 > > Piano Pro Moving and Storage > John Wrasse, Proprietor > 31387 ~ 216th Street > Bellevue, Iowa 52031 > (563)580-2472 > www.pianopromoving.com > > > > From lherault at bu.edu Mon Dec 21 20:38:59 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Mon, 21 Dec 2009 23:38:59 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E question In-Reply-To: <674A660C-45A5-489B-9DD4-C97C94932631@popyrus.com> References: <674A660C-45A5-489B-9DD4-C97C94932631@popyrus.com> Message-ID: <007301ca82c0$ae1f50a0$0a5df1e0$@edu> I think the "block off consisted in removing the two pins that would allow a direct connection between the drive pulley and the feed screw. RonL -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Baron Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 10:56 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E question I see in Frow that the 4-minute only Edison Standard model E had the same basic mechanism as the combination model D, but with the 2-minute gearing blocked off. Can anyone tell me if the 2-minute gears are there, and can be put in service without damaging anything through modification? If the gears aren't there, can it be set up to work in 2-minute mode if the 2-minute gearing is found? Finally, if this can be done, will the 2-minute gearing from the Model D make it work, or possibly anything borrowed from an Edison retrofit combination gear set? Thanks in advance for any insight on this. Andy _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ClockworkHome at aol.com Mon Dec 21 23:56:03 2009 From: ClockworkHome at aol.com (ClockworkHome at aol.com) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 02:56:03 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E question Message-ID: When George and I wrote up the Standards we did not have a large data base or a great number of examples of the E. Many years and observations later, I find that the E, which was introduced while the D was still in production, appears both with the blocked gear and configured with a 4 minute only gearing. I see no reason you cannot put D gears into the E for both record lengths. The Model F appeared at the same time as the E but the D continued for a time, disappeared then came back as an ICS machine just before outside horn machine manufacturing ceased. Thus the gearing from a junked F should also give you the dual record capability you desire. BTW - the printer never did get all the Standards put in the right place in either the first book or George's Companion book. In the Companion book the Model C Standard is really my early D in the 'tall' cabinet carried over from the B & early C. In the original book no Model B, Edison's most common machine, is shown as my Model C with dual gearing is labeled as such. My B appears in the Companion book labeled correctly. Hope that helps... Al From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 01:11:17 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:11:17 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc Message-ID: Hi, I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. Many thanks for any input! Ger PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 01:52:09 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:52:09 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Message-ID: <255923A7DCED49F6B86BCB1C3340245B@GER1> I think this is the machine I found, The Edison Model LC-38 London Console or London no. 4 Although I don't know why the one I found had the number 18 on the label inside. Was this a common model???? Thanks, Ger -------------- ATTACHMENT -------------- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 51362 bytes URL: From appywander at hotmail.com Tue Dec 22 05:08:28 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 08:08:28 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: You encountered a 'London Console', also known as a 'London No. 4'. These are common machines that were introduced in 1922 and are fitted with a single-spring motor and the smallest-series horn. It plays Edison 'Diamond Disc' records which are vertically recorded like cylinders. The horn and reproducer are on a gear drive that propels the reproducer across the surface of the record at the proper rate. They were not designed to play 78's, but can if the reproducer is removed and a 78 adapter reproducer is installed in its place. In the condition you describe it probably isn't worth more than $100. Edison made a number of Diamond Disc Phonograph models between 1912-1929 and many of those models are easily found today. I would recommend that you scout around for a Model C-250 upright that has a 2-spring motor and a large horn, and I wouldn't recommend that you pay more than $500 for one of those even if in mint condition ($300 would be about right for a C-250 in good condition). Here is a link to a brief page about Diamond Disc Phonographs and records: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/eddschst.html Just FYI, the machine that the violinist is standing next to is either a C-250 or a C-19. They were outwardly identical, but the C-250 has two drawers for record storage while the C-19 has dividers. I recommend the C-250 because besides the drawers being more elegant, the dividers have a nasty habit of shearing the white paper labels off the later-style Diamond Disc records. Hope this helps. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:11:17 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc > > Hi, > > I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. > > It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. > > I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. > > **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. > > Many thanks for any input! > > Ger > PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Tue Dec 22 06:03:17 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:03:17 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: http://www.phonobooks.com/ Edison Diamond Disc Phonographs, 1912-1929, by G. Frow, history & photos, 300+ pages, 25.95 Get it before it goes out of print. Steve > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:11:17 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc > > Hi, > > I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. > > It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. > > I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. > > **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. > > Many thanks for any input! > > Ger > PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 07:18:00 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:18:00 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <773816897.4004091261495080235.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> You are saying that it has an old fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos?? but you are also saying that it is a flat record phonograph? Does it have a Turntable ? The explanation is confusing. You are sure this is a disc phonograph ? If so the model number should be clearly marked on the ID plate, once you have that, just google the Edison model number and you should be able to have your answer. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:11:17 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc Hi, I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. Many thanks for any input! Ger PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jeffryy at prevea.com Tue Dec 22 07:13:28 2009 From: jeffryy at prevea.com (Jeffry Young, D.O.) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 09:13:28 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: <255923A7DCED49F6B86BCB1C3340245B@GER1> References: <255923A7DCED49F6B86BCB1C3340245B@GER1> Message-ID: <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA06DB@mercury.prevea.com> The London model I once owned had a metal tag under the motor board. You actually had to lift the motor board to see the ID tag, which was in the front lefthand corner under the motor board on the side wall of the cabinet. If you have a London model, these were actually made in New London, Wisconsin. They were specifically made for export. There was actually a furniture factory in New london that made the cabinets that were fitted with diamond disc motors. (The machine should play any conventional diamond disc.) After the fall of the phonograph and the rise of radio the New London factory made Edison "Little Folks" furniture. A good source for more information on this topic, and your console, would be Robin and Joan Rolfs. They have a great deal of knowledge about the New London factory and it's years of operation. Jeff Wisconsin -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 3:52 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console I think this is the machine I found, The Edison Model LC-38 London Console or London no. 4 Although I don't know why the one I found had the number 18 on the label inside. Was this a common model???? Thanks, Ger -------------- ATTACHMENT -------------- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 51362 bytes URL: _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 07:35:28 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 15:35:28 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: <255923A7DCED49F6B86BCB1C3340245B@GER1> Message-ID: <1988841699.4010881261496128597.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the Edison Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, and is a common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:52:09 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console I think this is the machine I found, The Edison Model LC-38 London Console or London no. 4 Although I don't know why the one I found had the number 18 on the label inside. Was this a common model???? Thanks, Ger -------------- ATTACHMENT -------------- **An Attachment Was Scrubbed** Name: not available Type: image/jpeg Size: 51362 bytes URL: _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jeffryy at prevea.com Tue Dec 22 09:33:58 2009 From: jeffryy at prevea.com (Jeffry Young, D.O.) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 11:33:58 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: <773816897.4004091261495080235.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <773816897.4004091261495080235.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <6C7EA97CA5292848B80F204F38A737520EDA06DD@mercury.prevea.com> The other possibility is an aftermarket reproducer that could play lateral recordings!? Jeff -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:18 AM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc You are saying that it has an old fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos?? but you are also saying that it is a flat record phonograph? Does it have a Turntable ? The explanation is confusing. You are sure this is a disc phonograph ? If so the model number should be clearly marked on the ID plate, once you have that, just google the Edison model number and you should be able to have your answer. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:11:17 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc Hi, I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. Many thanks for any input! Ger PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 13:36:02 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:36:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Message-ID: <5DFAB2D36BFE46328629A1FDC8673663@GER1> Thanks to all who replied, and so quickly. :) The London model Diamond Disc cabinet is a mess. However...I found that there are about 15 thick records with Edison on the label. They are asking $125 for phono and records (reduced from about $225) Can you folks give me an idea of what the records alone might be worth, and what I should look for as to condition and content? As I said earlier, I am only familiar with the cylinders which we collected in the 1950-60's...and still have. If I recall correctly, those fat Diamond Disc records often chip off on the ends...they separate?? I would assume that if in that condition, their value is limited? Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! And to the person who asked about the head: Yes, it is a head which resembles the one on the cylinder phonos. But it seems to be longer in the end where it attaches to horn connection...if memory serves. I touched what looked like a clear small diamond (?) and it conducted sound (scratchy from fingertip) to the horn. So apparently the diaphragm is intact. The rest is a disaster. :) Thanks, Ger PS: How does one show photos on the list? I sent one and it did not come through. Should I put a link??? From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 13:45:47 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:45:47 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc References: Message-ID: <5CA76B2DC1194F1E92F0B1958B2CF06F@GER1> Nice article. Thanks! :) ----- Original Message ----- From: John Maeder To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 8:08 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc You encountered a 'London Console', also known as a 'London No. 4'. These are common machines that were introduced in 1922 and are fitted with a single-spring motor and the smallest-series horn. It plays Edison 'Diamond Disc' records which are vertically recorded like cylinders. The horn and reproducer are on a gear drive that propels the reproducer across the surface of the record at the proper rate. They were not designed to play 78's, but can if the reproducer is removed and a 78 adapter reproducer is installed in its place. In the condition you describe it probably isn't worth more than $100. Edison made a number of Diamond Disc Phonograph models between 1912-1929 and many of those models are easily found today. I would recommend that you scout around for a Model C-250 upright that has a 2-spring motor and a large horn, and I wouldn't recommend that you pay more than $500 for one of those even if in mint condition ($300 would be about right for a C-250 in good cond ition). Here is a link to a brief page about Diamond Disc Phonographs and records: http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/edhtml/eddschst.html Just FYI, the machine that the violinist is standing next to is either a C-250 or a C-19. They were outwardly identical, but the C-250 has two drawers for record storage while the C-19 has dividers. I recommend the C-250 because besides the drawers being more elegant, the dividers have a nasty habit of shearing the white paper labels off the later-style Diamond Disc records. Hope this helps. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 04:11:17 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Diamond Disc > > Hi, > > I found a flat-record Edison phono which needs repair. I don't have any books beyond the cylinder models, so I can't ID it specifically. But the Reiss book mentions a number of Diamond Disc machines (only one photo). I assume that this is one of those. It has the Edison label inside in black at the top and a part of a paper label with the no. 18 on it on the side inside. Stamped into the wood on the bottom inside is a 4 digit number. > > It is fairly plain, a square section on the right for the phono and horn (it needs work on the mechanism which turns the horn from side to side, and the front fabric section is a mess). There is a square section on the left behind an ornate grid which held 24 records. The sign on it said "with records," but no one was there to answer WHERE the records were...the section was empty. It seems to have some type of diamond needle with an old-fashioned type of head as on the cylinder phonos...as best I could tell. I could not lift up the arm. The table does turn though. The grid over the records does resemble the grid on the A-425 model shown in Reiss (The Compleat Talking Machine), but without the cloth. > > I will call tomorrow to find out if there are indeed some records hidden somewhere in some other place. > > **Can anyone give me an idea of what this machine is, what vintage? rarity? What type of records did it take? Is it worth restoring? It is quite heavy, although I could not figure out why! The phono part is not all that big. It is basically an oblong cabinet on legs with 2 compartments: Phono with built-in metal horn on the right; records on the left. > > Many thanks for any input! > > Ger > PS: Where might I find photos of the Diamond Disk machines?? > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 13:58:36 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 16:58:36 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition Message-ID: I found this nice site which deals with Diamond Disc record condition. http://www.engineeringexpert.net/problems1.htm But, I'd still like to get an idea about who/what on the records is desirable? Thanks, Ger From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:01:16 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:01:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up In-Reply-To: <5DFAB2D36BFE46328629A1FDC8673663@GER1> Message-ID: <590440965.4157011261519276695.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Send the photo to Photobucket.com you can open an account there, it's free, then let us now the address where the photo is located. As far as the record is concerned, you might have 15 boring clunkers there that are worth absolutely nothing, and that you couldn't even pay someone to take, it all depends on condition and also content, and as far as content is concerned, it would take to long to tell you here what to look for here. I would suggest you get a compile a list of the 15 discs by Record Number, artist and title, and condition and we can give you an estimate of what the records would be worth. Good Luck !! Also if the Reproducer is no longer attached to the horn, where is it located ? is it just lying there in the machine ? and if so, why isn't it attached to the horn ? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:36:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Thanks to all who replied, and so quickly. :) The London model Diamond Disc cabinet is a mess. However...I found that there are about 15 thick records with Edison on the label. They are asking $125 for phono and records (reduced from about $225) Can you folks give me an idea of what the records alone might be worth, and what I should look for as to condition and content? As I said earlier, I am only familiar with the cylinders which we collected in the 1950-60's...and still have. If I recall correctly, those fat Diamond Disc records often chip off on the ends...they separate?? I would assume that if in that condition, their value is limited? Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! And to the person who asked about the head: Yes, it is a head which resembles the one on the cylinder phonos. But it seems to be longer in the end where it attaches to horn connection...if memory serves. I touched what looked like a clear small diamond (?) and it conducted sound (scratchy from fingertip) to the horn. So apparently the diaphragm is intact. The rest is a disaster. :) Thanks, Ger PS: How does one show photos on the list? I sent one and it did not come through. Should I put a link??? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:07:11 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:07:11 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Super site Message-ID: <897CA598E1F54F678B156B4F0E9A7794@GER1> OMG! Look what else is on this site...news even for old cylinder junkies like me. ;) http://www.engineeringexpert.net/boxes.htm Is Phil O'Keefe (site owner) on this list?? Ger From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:20:06 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:20:06 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] more on diamond disc Message-ID: <4CF4BA2D16134C2A85279D3CDFD2210A@GER1> I found your site, Tim Gracyk. Thanks for having it up there. It gives a nice disucssion on DD content! http://www.gracyk.com/diamonddisc.shtml Any additional info still appreciated. :) Ger From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:20:59 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:20:59 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <994273293.4162921261520459282.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Just curious, what other types of phonographs do you have in your collection ? Didn't you once have a Zonophone disc phonograph? and a Hexaphone? ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:58:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition I found this nice site which deals with Diamond Disc record condition. http://www.engineeringexpert.net/problems1.htm But, I'd still like to get an idea about who/what on the records is desirable? Thanks, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:37:13 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:37:13 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up References: <590440965.4157011261519276695.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <94DB35947E6643A58A844F8F8398D286@GER1> The reproducer is attached to an arm, which is attached to the horn. As far as I can tell, the reproducer is intact. I can tap it with my finger, and I hear sound coming through the horn underneath. I can't raise the arm though, and wonder if that's because of damage or the way it was made?? There is a big screw holding it on the arm. If I move the reproducer from side to side, the horn move with it! It is an odd duck, as far as I'm concerned. If I get back down there, I'll try to play a record since the thing does wind up. They've had this machine quite a long time and keep reducing it. Since I don't think I can handle the whole unit myself...was thinking more in getting the records, and/or reproducer. But then, the thing is totally useless. As I may have said earlier, it was a total fluke that I fell upon this thing. It looks very neglected. One other question: Why is this thing so HEAVY??? It's only a small machine in a wooden cabinet! Thanks! Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Send the photo to Photobucket.com you can open an account there, it's free, then let us now the address where the photo is located. As far as the record is concerned, you might have 15 boring clunkers there that are worth absolutely nothing, and that you couldn't even pay someone to take, it all depends on condition and also content, and as far as content is concerned, it would take to long to tell you here what to look for here. I would suggest you get a compile a list of the 15 discs by Record Number, artist and title, and condition and we can give you an estimate of what the records would be worth. Good Luck !! Also if the Reproducer is no longer attached to the horn, where is it located ? is it just lying there in the machine ? and if so, why isn't it attached to the horn ? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:36:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Thanks to all who replied, and so quickly. :) The London model Diamond Disc cabinet is a mess. However...I found that there are about 15 thick records with Edison on the label. They are asking $125 for phono and records (reduced from about $225) Can you folks give me an idea of what the records alone might be worth, and what I should look for as to condition and content? As I said earlier, I am only familiar with the cylinders which we collected in the 1950-60's...and still have. If I recall correctly, those fat Diamond Disc records often chip off on the ends...they separate?? I would assume that if in that condition, their value is limited? Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! And to the person who asked about the head: Yes, it is a head which resembles the one on the cylinder phonos. But it seems to be longer in the end where it attaches to horn connection...if memory serves. I touched what looked like a clear small diamond (?) and it conducted sound (scratchy from fingertip) to the horn. So apparently the diaphragm is intact. The rest is a disaster. :) Thanks, Ger PS: How does one show photos on the list? I sent one and it did not come through. Should I put a link??? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From majesticrecord at snet.net Tue Dec 22 14:36:37 2009 From: majesticrecord at snet.net (Glenn Longwell) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 14:36:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up (photo) In-Reply-To: <5DFAB2D36BFE46328629A1FDC8673663@GER1> Message-ID: <977121.56947.qm@web83708.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Your original post had a link to the picture.? While the list won't allow the picture itself to go through the link came through fine.? Here it is again. ? Glenn --- On Tue, 12/22/09, ger wrote: From: ger Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up To: "Antique Phonograph List" Date: Tuesday, December 22, 2009, 9:36 PM Thanks to all who replied, and so quickly. :) The London model Diamond Disc cabinet is a mess. However...I found that there are about 15 thick records with Edison on the label. They are asking $125 for phono and records (reduced from about $225) Can you folks give me an idea of what the records alone might be worth, and what I should look for as to condition and content? As I said earlier, I am only familiar with the cylinders which we collected in the 1950-60's...and still have.? If I recall correctly, those fat Diamond Disc records often chip off on the ends...they separate?? I would assume that if in that condition, their value is limited? Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! And to the person who asked about the head: Yes, it is a head which resembles the one on the cylinder phonos. But it seems to be longer in the end where it attaches to horn connection...if memory serves. I touched what looked like a clear small diamond (?) and it conducted sound (scratchy from fingertip) to the horn. So apparently the diaphragm is intact. The rest is a disaster. :) Thanks, Ger PS: How does one show photos on the list? I sent one and it did not come through. Should I put a link??? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 14:45:06 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 17:45:06 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition References: <994273293.4162921261520459282.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <732ABE3C0A6A48F28CFD8AC7829AC949@GER1> Yep. Still got 'em. Also 2 Home, 2 Standard, one Victor 4 (I think), and a Herbert (patched arm area)...along with a dozen mixed horns including quite a few painted Morning Glory and one large solid brass; several horn holders, extra heads, and (my fav) the odd little timer (rev/speed setter). Still have the hundreds of records, but now they're in better order. Basically I have parted with nothing except totally broken waxes. The Hex is a gem as far as sound. It can fill the room. I play it for friends now and then. It needs a nudge in one spot (and some new springs), but people are shocked at how loud and clear it plays. My bro and I always loved it. Thanks for asking. ;) Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:20 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition Just curious, what other types of phonographs do you have in your collection ? Didn't you once have a Zonophone disc phonograph? and a Hexaphone? ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:58:36 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond disc condition I found this nice site which deals with Diamond Disc record condition. http://www.engineeringexpert.net/problems1.htm But, I'd still like to get an idea about who/what on the records is desirable? Thanks, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Tue Dec 22 18:05:01 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 21:05:01 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270485841384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Tue Dec 22 18:35:30 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 02:35:30 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Phonograph for sale Message-ID: <744018363.4235831261535730394.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> http://providence.craigslist.org/atq/1508218898.html Oh my, I just had to share this one with you. Look what is stored directly behind the machine !! Seems the owner must have some drastic plans for that Edison, if it doesn't SELL !! Bruce From lherault at bu.edu Tue Dec 22 19:14:04 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Tue, 22 Dec 2009 22:14:04 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up In-Reply-To: <94DB35947E6643A58A844F8F8398D286@GER1> References: <590440965.4157011261519276695.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <94DB35947E6643A58A844F8F8398D286@GER1> Message-ID: <007901ca837e$0550a690$0ff1f3b0$@edu> The Edison motor is heavy. The springs are large there is a lot of cast iron in the motor board and there is the extra parts to move the horn. There should be a lever that raises and lowers the reproducer and horn. As you lower the reproducer and horn onto the disc, the stylus contacts the surface and the weight should move up enough so that the limit pin is half way up the limit loop. At the same time you are lowering the stylus into playing position, you should be engaging a fan shaped gear on the horn with a drive gear on the motor. It moves the arm across the record as the record plays. You should be able to remove the record and lower the reproducer into playing position. The reproducer should still move towrards the center of the turntable and the stylus should not touch the felt. If, when you lower the horn/reproducer into playing position, it does not engage the drive gear, try turning the adjusting screw at the bottom of the pipe on which the horn swivels. It should have a hole through it to facilitate turning it. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:37 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up The reproducer is attached to an arm, which is attached to the horn. As far as I can tell, the reproducer is intact. I can tap it with my finger, and I hear sound coming through the horn underneath. I can't raise the arm though, and wonder if that's because of damage or the way it was made?? There is a big screw holding it on the arm. If I move the reproducer from side to side, the horn move with it! It is an odd duck, as far as I'm concerned. If I get back down there, I'll try to play a record since the thing does wind up. They've had this machine quite a long time and keep reducing it. Since I don't think I can handle the whole unit myself...was thinking more in getting the records, and/or reproducer. But then, the thing is totally useless. As I may have said earlier, it was a total fluke that I fell upon this thing. It looks very neglected. One other question: Why is this thing so HEAVY??? It's only a small machine in a wooden cabinet! Thanks! Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 5:01 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Send the photo to Photobucket.com you can open an account there, it's free, then let us now the address where the photo is located. As far as the record is concerned, you might have 15 boring clunkers there that are worth absolutely nothing, and that you couldn't even pay someone to take, it all depends on condition and also content, and as far as content is concerned, it would take to long to tell you here what to look for here. I would suggest you get a compile a list of the 15 discs by Record Number, artist and title, and condition and we can give you an estimate of what the records would be worth. Good Luck !! Also if the Reproducer is no longer attached to the horn, where is it located ? is it just lying there in the machine ? and if so, why isn't it attached to the horn ? Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 4:36:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Disc follow-up Thanks to all who replied, and so quickly. :) The London model Diamond Disc cabinet is a mess. However...I found that there are about 15 thick records with Edison on the label. They are asking $125 for phono and records (reduced from about $225) Can you folks give me an idea of what the records alone might be worth, and what I should look for as to condition and content? As I said earlier, I am only familiar with the cylinders which we collected in the 1950-60's...and still have. If I recall correctly, those fat Diamond Disc records often chip off on the ends...they separate?? I would assume that if in that condition, their value is limited? Any comments or suggestions are greatly appreciated! And to the person who asked about the head: Yes, it is a head which resembles the one on the cylinder phonos. But it seems to be longer in the end where it attaches to horn connection...if memory serves. I touched what looked like a clear small diamond (?) and it conducted sound (scratchy from fingertip) to the horn. So apparently the diaphragm is intact. The rest is a disaster. :) Thanks, Ger PS: How does one show photos on the list? I sent one and it did not come through. Should I put a link??? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ClockworkHome at aol.com Wed Dec 23 02:50:09 2009 From: ClockworkHome at aol.com (ClockworkHome at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 05:50:09 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E 2 minute conversion... another thought... Message-ID: In a message dated 12/22/2009 12:06:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, lherault at bu.edu writes: I think the "block off consisted in removing the two pins that would allow a direct connection between the drive pulley and the feed screw. RonL That would be for the HOME? You lost me there. The Standard E with only the 4 minute gears means that only one set of gear teeth is on the mandrel shaft gear and that the 2 minute gear is missing from the shifter. Conversion will consist of changing the mandrel carriage drive gear to start with. It would be easier to take a Model D or F and put on a large carriage arm for an O Reproducer since they have all the gearing as original. Removing the mandrel gear on an E with only the 4 minute teeth is likely more than the average collector wants to tackle. It is not hard but does require some specialized tools. If the point was to have a Diamond B for 4 minute Blue Amberols and then use an adapter for a Model C for the 2 minute black wax records, then I would say to just buy a Model D on eBay missing the reproducers and wait for a large diameter carriage conversion to pop up. Best wishes, Al From gpaul2000 at aol.com Wed Dec 23 06:07:30 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:07:30 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC51F0666DF166-39C0-4D232@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> A home-made creation. George P. -----Original Message----- From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l ; phonolist Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 9:05 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270485841384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From lherault at bu.edu Wed Dec 23 06:57:14 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:57:14 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E 2 minute conversion... anotherthought... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <000601ca83e0$36b75d20$5bd6299b@ad.bu.edu> Ah, yes. The pins were in the Home. I was working from memory. I don't actually own an E Home or Standard. I did work on a Home last year and that stuck in my mind. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ClockworkHome at aol.com Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 5:50 AM To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E 2 minute conversion... anotherthought... In a message dated 12/22/2009 12:06:37 AM Pacific Standard Time, lherault at bu.edu writes: I think the "block off consisted in removing the two pins that would allow a direct connection between the drive pulley and the feed screw. RonL That would be for the HOME? You lost me there. The Standard E with only the 4 minute gears means that only one set of gear teeth is on the mandrel shaft gear and that the 2 minute gear is missing from the shifter. Conversion will consist of changing the mandrel carriage drive gear to start with. It would be easier to take a Model D or F and put on a large carriage arm for an O Reproducer since they have all the gearing as original. Removing the mandrel gear on an E with only the 4 minute teeth is likely more than the average collector wants to tackle. It is not hard but does require some specialized tools. If the point was to have a Diamond B for 4 minute Blue Amberols and then use an adapter for a Model C for the 2 minute black wax records, then I would say to just buy a Model D on eBay missing the reproducers and wait for a large diameter carriage conversion to pop up. Best wishes, Al _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Wed Dec 23 08:34:51 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 11:34:51 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Standard E 2 minute conversion... another thought... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Al, Was the carriage reducer or adapter was made for the recorder? I have found on my Triumph with the large carriage that some CHK reproducers sit too low. I corrected this by placing a 0.020 wire in the reducer/adapter under where the C will sit. Having all the carriages for the standard being interchangeable is wonderful, it allows my Standard A to test out any reproducer from the standard speaker to the diamond B. So far the only standard carriages I need to complete the set is the one for the E and F. The one I have for the ICS has the shaver casting that was not drilled out. I saw one of the early Amberolas (the one with the fireside motor) on eBay that played both 2 and 4 minute. Steve If you love variety you will love Edison. > > If the point was to have a Diamond B for 4 minute Blue Amberols and then > use an adapter for a Model C for the 2 minute black wax records, then I would > say to just buy a Model D on eBay missing the reproducers and wait for a > large diameter carriage conversion to pop up. > > Best wishes, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Wed Dec 23 11:23:34 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 14:23:34 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? In-Reply-To: <8CC51F0666DF166-39C0-4D232@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> References: , <8CC51F0666DF166-39C0-4D232@webmail-d083.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: Thanks. > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 09:07:30 -0500 > From: gpaul2000 at aol.com > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? > > > A home-made creation. > > George P. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Steven Medved > To: Phono-l ; phonolist > Sent: Tue, Dec 22, 2009 9:05 pm > Subject: [Phono-L] Any ideas on this unusual box? > > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270485841384&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From loran at oldcrank.com Wed Dec 23 20:29:30 2009 From: loran at oldcrank.com (Loran T. Hughes) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:29:30 -0800 Subject: [Phono-L] The Graphophone in Therapeutics Message-ID: <998dac550912232029m1a30f56dk48af42cc00545b4e@mail.gmail.com> I love Google Books. Just when you think you've read it all, out pops a little gem. Here's a letter to the editor from the Boston medical and surgical journal, Volume 150. Enjoy ;) Loran THE GRAPHOPHONE IN THERAPEUTICS. March, 1904. ??. Editor: In Japan during the summer of 1899, a friend of mine and I hired a small island situate in the bay of Sagami, about a dozen miles south of Kamakura and a hundred and fifty yards from the mainland, upon which was a small fishing village called Sajima. The island was of about two and a half acres in extent, sacred to Teujin, the god of caligraphy, and therefore known as Teujinshima. Upon it was a single house large enough for us and our entourage, together with a shrine devoted to the memory and worship of Teujin. The whole outfit was the property of the Imperial household and came into our temporary possession in a very complicated, roundabout and Japanese fashion, the details of which are too numerous to mention. A common friend of ours came to visit us on the island. He had just returned from Formosa and was broken down from a combination of dysentery, malarial fever and rheumatism which had confined him to hospital for six months. He had been very ill and came to us in hopes that the quiet and isolation of our insular paradise might benefit him. He did not improve, but gradually grew feebler and finally was obliged to take to his bed, as we say, which in Japan means that he did not rise from the floor. With this increasing weakness there developed a constipation upon which neither Cockles pills nor Hunyadi Janos water had any effect. After a week's delay in having a movement of the bowels, my friend and I held what is known in the practice of medicine as a consultation. We decided that the case demanded the administration of an enema. We commanded and carefully supervised the concoction of an injection composed of hot water, glycerine and soapsuds, a pailful. After the injection fluid had been compounded and pronounced good, we made the discovery that although we had plenty of ammunition we had no gun. There was no syringe on the island, not even a Royal P., and none nearer than Tokyo, a distance of some sixty miles. We had a small bamboo which we fashioned into an excellent anal pipe but nothing more. It was suggested that we each blow successive mouthfuls of the injection into the rectum. This idea was rejected as being more likely to produce nausea in us than defecation on the part of the patient. There was a graphophone in the house with which we used to amuse the Japanese kids who swam over every day from the mainlaind to visit us. We were both struct with the fact that the india-rubber tubes of this machine which serve to conduct its vociferations to the ear would also convey fluid. With the help of bamboo, twine and surgical adhesive plaster we spliced the tubes together and attaching the aforesaid bamboo nozzle to one end and the tin trumpet of the graphophone to the other we had an injection apparatus of novel construction but of rare efficacy as its use proved. As the crow flies the distance between the trumpet and the nozzle was a matter of about four feet. The intricate tortuosity of the tubes, however, rendered the distance traversed by the injection one of some yards. The practical results of the use of this acoustic enema were two-fold. Upon the patient the effect was all that could be desired. Upon the graphophone, however, the effect was prejudicial in the extreme. The sounds which issued from it after its prostitution were so fecal and unfit for ears polite that we were obliged to destroy the instrument. I venture to say that this is the first and probably the only instance of the application of the graphophone as an aid to therapeutics. From ger55 at comcast.net Wed Dec 23 20:40:27 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:40:27 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 Message-ID: The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the label. What exactly does that mean!? Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like 8696 and 8695) for? **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around with. But I just could not handle it. Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a list then. Thanks again, Ger From appywander at hotmail.com Wed Dec 23 22:00:48 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 01:00:48 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The Graphophone in Therapeutics In-Reply-To: <998dac550912232029m1a30f56dk48af42cc00545b4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <998dac550912232029m1a30f56dk48af42cc00545b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Was this the first 'Crapophone', then? > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 20:29:30 -0800 > From: loran at oldcrank.com > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: [Phono-L] The Graphophone in Therapeutics > > I love Google Books. Just when you think you've read it all, out pops > a little gem. Here's a letter to the editor from the Boston medical > and surgical journal, Volume 150. > > Enjoy ;) > Loran > > THE GRAPHOPHONE IN THERAPEUTICS. > March, 1904. > ??. Editor: In Japan during the summer of 1899, a friend of mine and I > hired a small island situate in the bay of Sagami, about a dozen miles > south of Kamakura and a hundred and fifty yards from the mainland, > upon which was a small fishing village called Sajima. The island was > of about two and a half acres in extent, sacred to Teujin, the god of > caligraphy, and therefore known as Teujinshima. Upon it was a single > house large enough for us and our entourage, together with a shrine > devoted to the memory and worship of Teujin. The whole outfit was the > property of the Imperial household and came into our temporary > possession in a very complicated, roundabout and Japanese fashion, the > details of which are too numerous to mention. A common friend of ours > came to visit us on the island. He had just returned from Formosa and > was broken down from a combination of dysentery, malarial fever and > rheumatism which had confined him to hospital for six months. He had > been very ill and came to us in hopes that the quiet and isolation of > our insular paradise might benefit him. He did not improve, but > gradually grew feebler and finally was obliged to take to his bed, as > we say, which in Japan means that he did not rise from the floor. With > this increasing weakness there developed a constipation upon which > neither Cockles pills nor Hunyadi Janos water had any effect. After a > week's delay in having a movement of the bowels, my friend and I held > what is known in the practice of medicine as a consultation. We > decided that the case demanded the administration of an enema. We > commanded and carefully supervised the concoction of an injection > composed of hot water, glycerine and soapsuds, a pailful. After the > injection fluid had been compounded and pronounced good, we made the > discovery that although we had plenty of ammunition we had no gun. > There was no syringe on the island, not even a Royal P., and none > nearer than Tokyo, a distance of some sixty miles. We had a small > bamboo which we fashioned into an excellent anal pipe but nothing > more. It was suggested that we each blow successive mouthfuls of the > injection into the rectum. This idea was rejected as being more likely > to produce nausea in us than defecation on the part of the patient. > There was a graphophone in the house with which we used to amuse the > Japanese kids who swam over every day from the mainlaind to visit us. > We were both struct with the fact that the india-rubber tubes of this > machine which serve to conduct its vociferations to the ear would also > convey fluid. With the help of bamboo, twine and surgical adhesive > plaster we spliced the tubes together and attaching the aforesaid > bamboo nozzle to one end and the tin trumpet of the graphophone to the > other we had an injection apparatus of novel construction but of rare > efficacy as its use proved. As the crow flies the distance between the > trumpet and the nozzle was a matter of about four feet. The intricate > tortuosity of the tubes, however, rendered the distance traversed by > the injection one of some yards. The practical results of the use of > this acoustic enema were two-fold. Upon the patient the effect was all > that could be desired. Upon the graphophone, however, the effect was > prejudicial in the extreme. The sounds which issued from it after its > prostitution were so fecal and unfit for ears polite that we were > obliged to destroy the instrument. I venture to say that this is the > first and probably the only instance of the application of the > graphophone as an aid to therapeutics. > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From clockworkhome at aol.com Thu Dec 24 03:06:50 2009 From: clockworkhome at aol.com (clockworkhome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 06:06:50 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... Message-ID: Greetings Steve: It was always my opinion that the reducer adapter rings were primarily provided with the recording kits when the large carriages were introduced with the better models of phonograph. The only adapter ring that I know of specifically for a reproducer was the ICS one with a lift for the Special H that came with the ICS Amberola 30. The Edison catalogues showing the Alva, Triumph, and Idelia with large diameter carriages holding O Reproducers state the phonographs come with, "Recorder - An improved Edison Recorder, for home record making. An adapter ring will be furnished so that Recorder can be used in the arm of the O Reproducer." Form 1865 October 1910. When the Home E came out with an O Reproducer that same phrase was put into the description. Form 2095. Adapter rings are only occasionally found in brass. The rest were in die cast zinc, potmetal, and often are not the same dimensions as original. The brass ones fare better and the C, H, or K do tend to sit lower in them as you point out. Again we find that the interchangeability of Edison parts can create some confusion! Regards to all on the list, Al From clockworkhome at aol.com Thu Dec 24 03:32:23 2009 From: clockworkhome at aol.com (clockworkhome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 06:32:23 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Standard carriage arms and a two speed Amberola... Message-ID: In a message dated 12/23/2009 9:09:25 AM Pacific Standard Time, steve_noreen at msn.com writes: So far the only standard carriages I need to complete the set is the one for the E and F. The one I have for the ICS has the shaver casting that was not drilled out. I saw one of the early Amberolas (the one with the fireside motor) on eBay that played both 2 and 4 minute. A few more thoughts Steve: The Model E came with two different carriage arms. The 45? large carriage for the N with fishtail weight was intertwined with the large horizontal carriage for the flat weight N and later the Diamond B. The last of the Standard machines were made with a solid carriage casting instead of the two piece one and stamped Model G with the only horn option being the Cygnet. Again, confusion results from years of parts swapping. As for the Amberola that was 2 - 4 minute, I have seen a Model A Fireside works with a swapped nameplate and an O Reproducer in large horizontal carriage that was dropped into an Amberola DX with an added I to the end making it an Amberola D-11! It was a mutt. The only 2 - 4 minute Amberola is the I - A. It is amazing what the basement tinkerer can do with too much time and a couple of boxes of Edison parts. I may have missed that eBay listing, thankfully. Merry Christmas to all, Al From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 03:43:38 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 11:43:38 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <569068579.4568941261655018326.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> What type of Reproducer head was it? Did you luck out and buy a later Edison "Dance"Reproducer or maybe got real lucky and got a Edisonic Reproducer? The Chances are slim, but you never know. The Red Star on the label means that the record was not expected to be a good seller, and was put on the record to indicate that the dealer who ordered it could not return it. There are some exceptions to this however, and some of the Red Star labels are very desirable today.. But you would have to tell us the Title and Artist along with the Catalogue or matrice number.. Looking forward to seeing the listing. Be aware that if those records were played with a Steel needle, then the grooves are damaged and the record will no doubt play horribly on an Edison Disc machine. Edison put a warning on the Record Sleeves warning the buyer to never play it on another disc machine with a steel needle or it would be destroyed !! It virtually renders the record useless and undesirable to a Collector of Edison Diamond Disc Records. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2009 11:40:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the label. What exactly does that mean!? Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like 8696 and 8695) for? **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around with. But I just could not handle it. Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a list then. Thanks again, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From appywander at hotmail.com Thu Dec 24 04:16:21 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 07:16:21 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 'Re-Creation' is a term that Edison's marketing people made up to set their product as being different from ordinary 'records' in the public mind. This was at a time that Edison was staging 'Tone Tests' around the country at larger Edison dealerships. An Edison artist would perform at the store alongside a Diamond Disc Phonograph -- at times concealed by screens from the audience -- and the viewers would have to guess which was live and which was a 'Re-Creation'. The term 'Re-Creation' was used from June '21 through the end of '22. Then they became 'Edison Record'. There is a black paper 'Re-Creation' label that was used from June '21 until October '21, when the white labels appeared. The smaller numbers you inquired about are matrix numbers. I have heard people say that the checkerboard pattern around the edge is a stoboscope for setting the speed of the record under 60-cycle illumination, but this is not true . . . it is merely a design. Diamond Disc surfaces are a phenolic resin derived from coal tar that is chemically similar to Bakelite, but which Edison called Condensite. It cannot grow 'mold' like a wax cylinder, so I'm not sure what the light brown handprint may be that you describe. Perhaps something heinous came in contact with it? At any rate, Edison recommended cleaning with alcohol. Isopropyl I suppose . . . what strength is best? The best term for the reproducer is simply 'reproducer' . . . 'reproducer head' is redundant, and would imply that there is a also a 'recording head', which there is not. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:40:27 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the label. What exactly does that mean!? > > Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? > > None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. > > **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like 8696 and 8695) for? > **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? > > I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around with. But I just could not handle it. > > Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! > I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a list then. > > Thanks again, > Ger > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Thu Dec 24 07:45:32 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:45:32 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Thanks for Standard E 2/4 info Message-ID: <88A13EFA-3A9D-4C79-A7D6-A2ED9B049A1C@popyrus.com> As the subject line says. I appreciate all who responded to my Standard E inquiry regarding the possibilities of reconverting an Edison Standard E back to 2-minute capability. Andy Baron From andy at popyrus.com Thu Dec 24 07:46:22 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 08:46:22 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3C11A7E8-E84B-459D-918C-1F4D46765EF3@popyrus.com> This is very helpful historical perspective, Al. Thank you! Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 4:06 AM, clockworkhome at aol.com wrote: > Greetings Steve: > > It was always my opinion that the reducer adapter rings were primarily > provided with the recording kits when the large carriages were > introduced with > the better models of phonograph. The only adapter ring that I know of > specifically for a reproducer was the ICS one with a lift for the > Special H that > came with the ICS Amberola 30. The Edison catalogues showing the > Alva, > Triumph, and Idelia with large diameter carriages holding O > Reproducers state the > phonographs come with, "Recorder - An improved Edison Recorder, for > home > record making. An adapter ring will be furnished so that Recorder > can be used > in the arm of the O Reproducer." Form 1865 October 1910. When the > Home E > came out with an O Reproducer that same phrase was put into the > description. > Form 2095. > > Adapter rings are only occasionally found in brass. The rest were > in die > cast zinc, potmetal, and often are not the same dimensions as > original. The > brass ones fare better and the C, H, or K do tend to sit lower in > them as > you point out. > > Again we find that the interchangeability of Edison parts can create > some > confusion! > > Regards to all on the list, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Thu Dec 24 08:07:56 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:07:56 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ger ~ You might consider the following if you have any plans at all to use the reproducer. This is pretty important to any hope of playing those records you've invested in. I think you're probably aware that the reproducer (head & stylus) alone would be almost useless to you by itself. Even if you could affix it to some kind of swiveling arm, it will likely damage the records, even if the stylus is in perfect condition. It would also risk chipping or breaking off the diamond from its mount if it doesn't have the correct loading, as it would in place on the whole mechanism. Half (or more than half) of what enables the reproducer to work is the way the gear-driven horn and neck move, not only right to left to play the record, but also vertically, to maintain the correct distance between the reproducer and record. This distance correctly loads the tip of the stylus in the groove, applying just the right amount of mass from the big weight on the bottom of the reproducer housing. It's a precision-engineered system that keeps the stylus engaged with exactly the intended amount of force AND at the same time keeps all that mass suspended and floating (the big weight), both laterally and vertically, to prevent damage to the stylus while its tracking. I don't know if you caught this from a posting that appeared on this forum earlier, but there's a gear drive hidden in the machine (it's up above the horn, near the front of the horn), that enables all this to happen as designed: Keeping the reproducer suspended when the record is playing, while at the same time driving it across from right to left, and at the same time moving the neck and horn with it, so all the hardware moves in unison, except for the floating weight and diamond stylus, which in this sophisticated system are enable to move freely within a limited but precise range. Try to make that reproducer work as part of any other system (adapted to a Victrola or home-made, for example), and you're not going to get good results. You also risk damaging the $125 - $150 diamond stylus, the delicate braided cloth link that connects the tail of the stylus bar to the diaphragm, and the diaphragm itself. If I were you, I would go back before that woman junks the machine and get the rest of it. From the sound of it she might even give it to you. At the very least, get the entire playing mechanism and measurements for where the bottom horn pivot would need to fit, if you make a smaller, custom cabinet. Without that, your fascination with the reproducer and records is probably headed for trouble. Best regards, Andy Baron On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:40 PM, ger wrote: > The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper > label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, > 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with > titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the > label. What exactly does that mean!? > > Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the > grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light > scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have > a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the > cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? > > None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the > edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. > > **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like > 8696 and 8695) for? > **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the > cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? > > I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer > head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made > an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm > guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was > not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around > with. But I just could not handle it. > > Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! > I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a > list then. > > Thanks again, > Ger > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Thu Dec 24 11:08:22 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:08:22 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Al, I have always believed that the reducer adapter rings were made for the recorder and I wanted to take the opportunity to see if I was correct. They also came with the amberol kits that Edison offered in 1919 to amberolize the standards, homes and triumphs. These kit consisted of a large carriage, a diamond B reproducer, a rubber horn connector, a box, the reducer adapter ring, and instructions. I have such a kit for a standard that is NOS. The first reducer adapter ring was nickel plated brass, the second was iron that was thinly plated with nickel on the top part, I have seen some nickel plated pot metal and the un plated pot metal ones are the most common. I have never met a brass one in person, but you can tell from the photos they are different than all the rest. As viewed from the top the thick part is thicker and the thin part is thinner. I really appreciate your reply, Steve > From: clockworkhome at aol.com > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 06:06:50 -0500 > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... > > Greetings Steve: > > It was always my opinion that the reducer adapter rings were primarily > provided with the recording kits when the large carriages were introduced with > the better models of phonograph. The only adapter ring that I know of > specifically for a reproducer was the ICS one with a lift for the Special H that > came with the ICS Amberola 30. The Edison catalogues showing the Alva, > Triumph, and Idelia with large diameter carriages holding O Reproducers state the > phonographs come with, "Recorder - An improved Edison Recorder, for home > record making. An adapter ring will be furnished so that Recorder can be used > in the arm of the O Reproducer." Form 1865 October 1910. When the Home E > came out with an O Reproducer that same phrase was put into the description. > Form 2095. > > Adapter rings are only occasionally found in brass. The rest were in die > cast zinc, potmetal, and often are not the same dimensions as original. The > brass ones fare better and the C, H, or K do tend to sit lower in them as > you point out. > > Again we find that the interchangeability of Edison parts can create some > confusion! > > Regards to all on the list, > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Thu Dec 24 11:33:45 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:33:45 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 8915, 7826, 5110 should have the catalog numbers on the edge of the record. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Wed, 23 Dec 2009 23:40:27 -0500 > Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the label. What exactly does that mean!? > > Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? > > None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. > > **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like 8696 and 8695) for? > **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? > > I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around with. But I just could not handle it. > > Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! > I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a list then. > > Thanks again, > Ger > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 11:42:49 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 19:42:49 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Andy that alll makes perfect sense. Unless your intent is to put that reproducer up for sale, as well as the records, then you should go back and grab That machine as well. Without it, what good are the reproducer and the records ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" , "ger" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:07:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 Ger ~ You might consider the following if you have any plans at all to use the reproducer. This is pretty important to any hope of playing those records you've invested in. I think you're probably aware that the reproducer (head & stylus) alone would be almost useless to you by itself. Even if you could affix it to some kind of swiveling arm, it will likely damage the records, even if the stylus is in perfect condition. It would also risk chipping or breaking off the diamond from its mount if it doesn't have the correct loading, as it would in place on the whole mechanism. Half (or more than half) of what enables the reproducer to work is the way the gear-driven horn and neck move, not only right to left to play the record, but also vertically, to maintain the correct distance between the reproducer and record. This distance correctly loads the tip of the stylus in the groove, applying just the right amount of mass from the big weight on the bottom of the reproducer housing. It's a precision-engineered system that keeps the stylus engaged with exactly the intended amount of force AND at the same time keeps all that mass suspended and floating (the big weight), both laterally and vertically, to prevent damage to the stylus while its tracking. I don't know if you caught this from a posting that appeared on this forum earlier, but there's a gear drive hidden in the machine (it's up above the horn, near the front of the horn), that enables all this to happen as designed: Keeping the reproducer suspended when the record is playing, while at the same time driving it across from right to left, and at the same time moving the neck and horn with it, so all the hardware moves in unison, except for the floating weight and diamond stylus, which in this sophisticated system are enable to move freely within a limited but precise range. Try to make that reproducer work as part of any other system (adapted to a Victrola or home-made, for example), and you're not going to get good results. You also risk damaging the $125 - $150 diamond stylus, the delicate braided cloth link that connects the tail of the stylus bar to the diaphragm, and the diaphragm itself. If I were you, I would go back before that woman junks the machine and get the rest of it. From the sound of it she might even give it to you. At the very least, get the entire playing mechanism and measurements for where the bottom horn pivot would need to fit, if you make a smaller, custom cabinet. Without that, your fascination with the reproducer and records is probably headed for trouble. Best regards, Andy Baron On Dec 23, 2009, at 9:40 PM, ger wrote: > The Edison Diamond disc records are all 10" with a white paper > label. All are in the 50,000 or 51,000 range, except: 8915, 7826, > 5110 and 80398. I don't have time right now to list them all with > titles and artists; 2 have a red star. 2 have "Re-Creation" on the > label. What exactly does that mean!? > > Two are in very nice condition. Some have a scratch or two in the > grooves (like somebody tried the wrong needle); a few have light > scratches across; one is badly scratched; 2 or 3 look like they have > a brown hand print which reminds me of the mold I've seen on the > cylinders. Is that fixable on these, say with alcohol?? > > None are splitting. Only 2 or 3 have shallow chips on the > edge...none extending into the grooves. None are warped. > > **What are the numbers on the lower part (edge) of the label (like > 8696 and 8695) for? > **Also, there are scribed numbers in the plastic. Are they like the > cylinders, showing which "take," or something else?? > > I took a flying leap ;) and bought the 15 records and the reproducer > head too. I left the messed up rest...the owner seemed happy. I made > an offer for these (well below asking) and she took it. :) I'm > guessing that she'll probably junk the rest...maybe not. If it was > not so heavy, I would have taken the whole machine to muck around > with. But I just could not handle it. > > Happy, peaceful and safe Holidays to all! > I will be back on Friday or Saturday and hopefully can work up a > list then. > > Thanks again, > Ger > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Thu Dec 24 12:13:58 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:13:58 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console References: <1988841699.4010881261496128597.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along with the Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with this story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been uncrated. Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for me. ;-) Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console >I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the Edison >Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, and is a >common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". > From maxbud12 at wowway.com Thu Dec 24 12:10:04 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 14:10:04 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Phonograph for sale References: <744018363.4235831261535730394.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <933E3C7A07DC4BB2BDB226B70895ABBE@Vaio> I think it must have been converted to run on gas. The "filler hole" is where the crank is missing. I love it when they put the grill in upside down........ Bruce > http://providence.craigslist.org/atq/1508218898.html > > Oh my, I just had to share this one with you. Look what is stored directly > behind the machine !! > > Seems the owner must have some drastic plans for that Edison, if it > doesn't SELL !! > > > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 13:51:02 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:51:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console References: <1988841699.4010881261496128597.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8547BCEAE40F43BEB7A879AAC88823DB@GER1> Hi, How do I know what type of reproducer I have? And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? Here's a link to photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; turntable goes around; she says it plays. Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mercer To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along with the Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with this story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been uncrated. Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for me. ;-) Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console >I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the Edison >Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, and is a >common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 14:09:37 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 22:09:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: <8547BCEAE40F43BEB7A879AAC88823DB@GER1> Message-ID: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a repro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Hi, How do I know what type of reproducer I have? And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? Here's a link to photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; turntable goes around; she says it plays. Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mercer To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along with the Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with this story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been uncrated. Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for me. ;-) Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console >I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the Edison >Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, and is a >common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From clockworkhome at aol.com Thu Dec 24 14:17:18 2009 From: clockworkhome at aol.com (clockworkhome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:17:18 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... Message-ID: <9358.4ee240cf.3865426e@aol.com> Thanks Steve: I had totally forgotten about the late conversion kits. It would be interesting for a collector with all of those adapter rings to take a micrometer to them. Al From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 14:25:08 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:25:08 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Hi Bruce, No I did not intend to try to jury-rig the reproducer to anything else. My idea was that the reproducer does work, and from experience with the cylinder Edisons, realize that reproducers are of value...since they seem to fall apart. :) However, now I've found that some of the brown stuff on the records is just DIRT! I took alcohol on a puff (70% with half water) and wiped just one down and it took 3 or 4 wipings to clean it. It came out pretty shiney...except for a few of those brown lines which run with the grooves, suggestive of damage by a metal needle (got that from photos on the one site). With that in mind, I think playing dirty records could do no good for their condition anyway...just like 45's and 78's. And maybe the damage is because someone tried to play them without first cleaning them!? Anywho, depending on how the rest clean up, I may go get that messy machine on Saturday if I can get someone to help unload it...but only to check how the records play...ugh. I really don't want an old wreck. I always get myself into these messes. If it plays well, then I'd feel obliged to fix/clean it to some degree, or as someone suggested, build a smaller box...ugh again. On the other hand: If most of the records have these groove brown lines, is it worth the trouble? I'm going to clean them now and make up a list. Thanks, Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 2:42 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 Andy that alll makes perfect sense. Unless your intent is to put that reproducer up for sale, as well as the records, then you should go back and grab That machine as well. Without it, what good are the reproducer and the records ?? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Baron" To: "Antique Phonograph List" , "ger" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 11:07:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 14:43:02 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:43:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console References: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1> LOL. I like the idea of possible hidden treasure. Can't wait for Saturday. Now, to get behind the records area...how does one do that? The top on that side does not come up. Only the grill area opens from the front. I stuck my fingers into the slots and they seemed empty. Fortunately nothing was living in there either. :) But, ya know, come to think of it, the weight seemed to be more on the empty record side. hmmmmm Could be somebody added metal as support I suppose. I really didn't get under and inspect every nook and cranny. It was so yucky. And...don't forget, I am just an old broad! ;) Yes. The thing cranks, turns on and off. But to get the horn to move (from side to side), it needs some help. It moved a few times, then got stubborn. This is getting more interesting. This group is great. Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:09 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a rep ro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Hi, How do I know what type of reproducer I have? And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? Here's a link to photos: http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; turntable goes around; she says it plays. Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mercer To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along with the Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with this story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been uncrated. Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for me. ;-) Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console >I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the Edison >Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, and is a >common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". > _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Thu Dec 24 16:30:55 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:30:55 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: <931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1> References: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1> Message-ID: <7D73B119-0F9B-4D9E-B562-285A64CDA36C@popyrus.com> First, use a flashlight to see if there's anything back there. If there is, you can inquire of this group on the procedure for removing the slats. Regarding the stubborn horn movement, are you doing the right thing when trying to move the horn assembly? Are you aware of how to work the wood lever that's in the front right corner under the lid, and that you must first pivot it over to the right until it's horizontal, before rotating it counter-clockwise, along with a guiding hand on the upper part, to swivel the whole works, while the lever is still rocked all the way over level? It's possible that there's a mechanical issue but you first want to be familiar with how to operate that lever to control the entire movement of the horn and neck. It's also good to be aware that the damaged, etched grooves on the records can be caused - not only by playing on a different kind of phonograph that has a steel needle (or with a steel-needle adaptor on an Edison), but also if played on a proper Edison disc machine, IF the diamond on the Edison reproducer is chipped or damaged. So it's possible you may be in the market for a new stylus or a reproducer that has a viable one. You can sometimes get them pretty cheap on eBay and get lucky on the condition of the diamond. Regarding the "yucky" cabinet and mechanism, maybe they'll clean up as nicely as the records. A little TLC can go a long way. Old English Lemon Oil from the grocery store on the cabinet, or something like it, can work wonders. Don't be so quick to dismiss the experience of seeing what this noble relic can do until you've gotten a little better acquainted with it. Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:43 PM, ger wrote: > LOL. I like the idea of possible hidden treasure. Can't wait for > Saturday. > Now, to get behind the records area...how does one do that? The top > on that side does not come up. Only the grill area opens from the > front. I stuck my fingers into the slots and they seemed empty. > Fortunately nothing was living in there either. :) > > But, ya know, come to think of it, the weight seemed to be more on > the empty record side. hmmmmm Could be somebody added metal as > support I suppose. I really didn't get under and inspect every nook > and cranny. It was so yucky. And...don't forget, I am just an old > broad! ;) > > Yes. The thing cranks, turns on and off. But to get the horn to move > (from side to side), it needs some help. It moved a few times, then > got stubborn. > > This is getting more interesting. This group is great. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got > pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more > heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased > about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record > compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few > real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, > including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the > art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never > know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of > these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can > tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants > for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound > like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable > and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are > paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a r > ep > ro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on > line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. > > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ger" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > Hi, > > How do I know what type of reproducer I have? > And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? > Here's a link to photos: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ > > The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It > is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; > turntable goes around; she says it plays. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along > with the > Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with > this > story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been > uncrated. > Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for > me. ;-) > Bruce > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > >> I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the >> Edison >> Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, >> and is a >> common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 17:16:09 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:16:09 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console References: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1> <7D73B119-0F9B-4D9E-B562-285A64CDA36C@popyrus.com> Message-ID: Hi Andy, Great insight on the stylus as a possible cause for damage...thanks I see a shiney smooth point in the diamond area...overall, kind of triangular where it's sitting. I used a 10x loupe. HOWEVER, what I did notice (forgive me for not knowing proper terms): the small metal prong which is most forward in position on the reproducer, and sits in a V-shaped hook from the top (it goes up and down and side to side). Anywho, this prong was BENT to one side. I just straightened it, or at least got it to move symmetrically. I'm guessing that that bend might make the thing track badly, possibly causing damage to the record grooves?? All but 2 records have at least one of those thicker brown streaks, which I believe is damage. I louped them with 10x, and they seem rough and thicker than the "normal" grooves. One of the marks is really askew, crossing several lines; and one record looks like somebody carved their initials on one side. Guess I ain't got treasure. I will still make a list with numbers, songs, artists. But I am getting a kind of deja vu of old cylinder records with great songs and names, but too much mold to have any content...not that these are that bad, but my mind's eye is going back to a coupla years ago when I worked on reorganizing the cylinders and got very disappointed. I don't understand your directions about the movement of the horn. Maybe when I get the thing here it will make more sense. But, thanks. :) I'll print out what you wrote and see if I can apply it...or maybe the durn wooden lever is just plain missing!? I don't remember if anything was in the right front like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console First, use a flashlight to see if there's anything back there. If there is, you can inquire of this group on the procedure for removing the slats. Regarding the stubborn horn movement, are you doing the right thing when trying to move the horn assembly? Are you aware of how to work the wood lever that's in the front right corner under the lid, and that you must first pivot it over to the right until it's horizontal, before rotating it counter-clockwise, along with a guiding hand on the upper part, to swivel the whole works, while the lever is still rocked all the way over level? It's possible that there's a mechanical issue but you first want to be familiar with how to operate that lever to control the entire movement of the horn and neck. It's also good to be aware that the damaged, etched grooves on the records can be caused - not only by playing on a different kind of phonograph that has a steel needle (or with a steel-needle adaptor on an Edison), but also if played on a proper Edison disc machine, IF the diamond on the Edison reproducer is chipped or damaged. So it's possible you may be in the market for a new stylus or a reproducer that has a viable one. You can sometimes get them pretty cheap on eBay and get lucky on the condition of the diamond. Regarding the "yucky" cabinet and mechanism, maybe they'll clean up as nicely as the records. A little TLC can go a long way. Old English Lemon Oil from the grocery store on the cabinet, or something like it, can work wonders. Don't be so quick to dismiss the experience of seeing what this noble relic can do until you've gotten a little better acquainted with it. Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:43 PM, ger wrote: > LOL. I like the idea of possible hidden treasure. Can't wait for > Saturday. > Now, to get behind the records area...how does one do that? The top > on that side does not come up. Only the grill area opens from the > front. I stuck my fingers into the slots and they seemed empty. > Fortunately nothing was living in there either. :) > > But, ya know, come to think of it, the weight seemed to be more on > the empty record side. hmmmmm Could be somebody added metal as > support I suppose. I really didn't get under and inspect every nook > and cranny. It was so yucky. And...don't forget, I am just an old > broad! ;) > > Yes. The thing cranks, turns on and off. But to get the horn to move > (from side to side), it needs some help. It moved a few times, then > got stubborn. > > This is getting more interesting. This group is great. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got > pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more > heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased > about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record > compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few > real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, > including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the > art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never > know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of > these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can > tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants > for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound > like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable > and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are > paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a r > ep > ro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on > line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. > > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ger" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > Hi, > > How do I know what type of reproducer I have? > And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? > Here's a link to photos: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ > > The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It > is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; > turntable goes around; she says it plays. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along > with the > Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with > this > story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been > uncrated. > Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for > me. ;-) > Bruce > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > >> I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the >> Edison >> Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, >> and is a >> common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 18:53:05 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:53:05 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Message-ID: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> Edison Diamond Disc 10" records December 2009 BL= brown lines; BBL= lots; bBL= probably only 1 or 2 areas F= fragile edges; bubble or small chip (none go into the grooves) SCT= signficant scratch/es, probably across LS= light scratch, might not matter (wait to play) Nice= obvious Some of the labels are messy or dirty; not much comment on this. Re-Creation: 50085-L Ben Hur Chariot Race March (E.T.Paul) N.Y. Military Band 2291 BL; wear spots (?); F 50085-R Belle of New York & @nd Reg't. Conn NG Marches (Clark Reeves) N.Y. Military Band 2401 BBL (thick) Re-Creation: 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch Fred Van Eps 3308 BL (nr center only) Re-Creation: 50895-L Ride of the Cavalry (Wm.H.Santelmann) U.S.Marine Band 8245 Nice 50895-R Old Comrades March (c.Teike) U.S.Marine Band 8239 Deep SCT 51060-L What's Your Hurry? Fox Trot (Effie P. Kamman) Kaplan's Melodists 8853 Nice 51060-R When Will the Sun Shine for Me? Fox Trot (Abner Silver) Kaplan's Melodists 8852 Nice Red Star: 51110-L I''ll Take You Home Again Pal O'Mine (Dixon-Sacre) Tenor solo, Walter Scanlan (Intro: "Helen Clark") 8690 BL;SCT 51110-R Faded Love Letters (of Mine) (Moore-Dulmage) Baritone solo, J.Harold Murray (Intro: "The Homestead Trio") 8673 BL;SCT;F Re-Creation: 51111-L Underneath the Mellow Moon, Medley Waltz Intro: "My Carolina Rose" (W.W.Hall) Kaplan's Melodists 8696 Nice 51111-R On a Moonlight Night, Waltz (L.Wolfe Gilbert) Kaplan's Melodists 8695 Nice Re-Creation: 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS 51113-L Jeannie, Fox Trot (Intro:"Honeymoon Lane") (D.Friend-C.Conrad) Steven's Quartet 8710 bBL label torn 51113-R That Dixie Melody, Fox Trot (Chas. A. Arthur) Kaplan's Melodists 8687 Nice 51156-L That Red Head Gal, Blues Fox Trot (Van & Schenck & Henry Lodge) Atlantic Dance Orch. 8927 BL at beginning 51156-R A Kiss in the Dark, Intro: "Weaving my Dreams" Medley Waltz (Victor Herbert) Kaplan's Melodists 8931 BL 51128-L Dance of the Nightingales (F.H.Losey) Imperial Marimba Band 8828 F (chp edge only) 51128-R Dream Flowers-Waltz Intermezzo (S.Translateur) Imperial Marimba Band 8829 Good 51160-L Why Don't My Dreams Come True? (Geo.E.Patten) Soprano & Tenor. Esther Nelson & Charles Hart 8922 Nice 51160-R Lagoon Lullaby (Galty Sellars), tenor Walter Scanlan 8915 Gd, LS 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin, Fred Roth & Joe Garren), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley) tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges Red Star: 51281-L Take, Oh Take Those Lips Away, Fox Trot from "Ziegfeld Follies of 1923" (Jos.McCarthy & Harry Tierney) California Entertainers 9290 BBL 51281-R Dream Daddy, Fox Trot (Louis Herscher & Geo. Keefer) California Entertainers 9289 LS Re-Creation: 80398-L My Waikiki Mermaid Hula Medley Waikiki Hawaiian Orch 5298 BL 80398-R Valse Llewellyn (Rudy Wiedoeft) Saxaphone solo, Rudy Wiedoeft 5782 BL Re-Creation: 80635-L Sleepy Little Baby of Mine (Chas.Dennee), soprano w orch, Betsy Lane Shepherd Humming Obbligato by Clara Brookhurst 7057 F; bBl (1) 80635-R Ole Uncle Moon (Chas.P.Scott) Males Voices Unaccompanied Criterion Quartet 7826 bBl (1) What is the function of the last numbers? From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 18:53:07 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 02:53:07 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1825727035.4727851261709587657.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> The Wooden handle sits over a metal lever, so even if the wooden handle got separated and lost over the years you should be able to operate the lever to lift and position the tone arm and reproducer with what is left. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 8:16:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Hi Andy, Great insight on the stylus as a possible cause for damage...thanks I see a shiney smooth point in the diamond area...overall, kind of triangular where it's sitting. I used a 10x loupe. HOWEVER, what I did notice (forgive me for not knowing proper terms): the small metal prong which is most forward in position on the reproducer, and sits in a V-shaped hook from the top (it goes up and down and side to side). Anywho, this prong was BENT to one side. I just straightened it, or at least got it to move symmetrically. I'm guessing that that bend might make the thing track badly, possibly causing damage to the record grooves?? All but 2 records have at least one of those thicker brown streaks, which I believe is damage. I louped them with 10x, and they seem rough and thicker than the "normal" grooves. One of the marks is really askew, crossing several lines; and one record looks like somebody carved their initials on one side. Guess I ain't got treasure. I will still make a list with numbers, songs, artists. But I am getting a kind of deja vu of old cylinder records with great songs and names, but too much mold to have any content...not that these are that bad, but my mind's eye is going back to a coupla years ago when I worked on reorganizing the cylinders and got very disappointed. I don't understand your directions about the movement of the horn. Maybe when I get the thing here it will make more sense. But, thanks. :) I'll print out what you wrote and see if I can apply it...or maybe the durn wooden lever is just plain missing!? I don't remember if anything was in the right front like that. ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 7:30 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console First, use a flashlight to see if there's anything back there. If there is, you can inquire of this group on the procedure for removing the slats. Regarding the stubborn horn movement, are you doing the right thing when trying to move the horn assembly? Are you aware of how to work the wood lever that's in the front right corner under the lid, and that you must first pivot it over to the right until it's horizontal, before rotating it counter-clockwise, along with a guiding hand on the upper part, to swivel the whole works, while the lever is still rocked all the way over level? It's possible that there's a mechanical issue but you first want to be familiar with how to operate that lever to control the entire movement of the horn and neck. It's also good to be aware that the damaged, etched grooves on the records can be caused - not only by playing on a different kind of phonograph that has a steel needle (or with a steel-needle adaptor on an Edison), but also if played on a proper Edison disc machine, IF the diamond on the Edison reproducer is chipped or damaged. So it's possible you may be in the market for a new stylus or a reproducer that has a viable one. You can sometimes get them pretty cheap on eBay and get lucky on the condition of the diamond. Regarding the "yucky" cabinet and mechanism, maybe they'll clean up as nicely as the records. A little TLC can go a long way. Old English Lemon Oil from the grocery store on the cabinet, or something like it, can work wonders. Don't be so quick to dismiss the experience of seeing what this noble relic can do until you've gotten a little better acquainted with it. Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:43 PM, ger wrote: > LOL. I like the idea of possible hidden treasure. Can't wait for > Saturday. > Now, to get behind the records area...how does one do that? The top > on that side does not come up. Only the grill area opens from the > front. I stuck my fingers into the slots and they seemed empty. > Fortunately nothing was living in there either. :) > > But, ya know, come to think of it, the weight seemed to be more on > the empty record side. hmmmmm Could be somebody added metal as > support I suppose. I really didn't get under and inspect every nook > and cranny. It was so yucky. And...don't forget, I am just an old > broad! ;) > > Yes. The thing cranks, turns on and off. But to get the horn to move > (from side to side), it needs some help. It moved a few times, then > got stubborn. > > This is getting more interesting. This group is great. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:09 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got > pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more > heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased > about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record > compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few > real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, > including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the > art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never > know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of > these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can > tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants > for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound > like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable > and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are > paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a r > ep > ro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on > line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. > > Bruce > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ger" > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > Eastern > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > Hi, > > How do I know what type of reproducer I have? > And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? > Here's a link to photos: > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ > > The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It > is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; > turntable goes around; she says it plays. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along > with the > Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with > this > story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been > uncrated. > Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for > me. ;-) > Bruce > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > >> I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the >> Edison >> Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, >> and is a >> common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". >> > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Thu Dec 24 19:08:49 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 21:08:49 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. Bruce From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Thu Dec 24 19:25:41 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:25:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> Message-ID: <725364530.4729981261711541367.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> At first glance I would say it is typical common Edison artists and no killers there. However, I am not familiar with the California Entertainers. Does anyone know if that is a pseudonym for a famous jazz band of from that era ? I don't recognize that name as a pseudonym used by the California Ramblers (usually The Golden Gate Orchestra on Edison). Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: " ger " To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 9:53:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Edison Diamond Disc 10" records December 2009 BL= brown lines; BBL= lots; bBL = probably only 1 or 2 areas F= fragile edges; bubble or small chip (none go into the grooves) SCT = signficant scratch/es, probably across LS= light scratch, might not matter (wait to play) Nice= obvious Some of the labels are messy or dirty; not much comment on this. Re-Creation: 50085-L Ben Hur Chariot Race March (E.T.Paul) N.Y. Military Band 2291 BL; wear spots (?); F 50085-R Belle of New York & @ nd Reg't . Conn NG Marches (Clark Reeves) N.Y. Military Band 2401 BBL (thick) Re-Creation: 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch Fred Van Eps 3308 BL ( nr center only) Re-Creation: 50895-L Ride of the Cavalry (Wm.H. Santelmann ) U.S.Marine Band 8245 Nice 50895-R Old Comrades March (c. Teike ) U.S.Marine Band 8239 Deep SCT 51060-L What's Your Hurry? Fox Trot (Effie P. Kamman ) Kaplan's Melodists 8853 Nice 51060-R When Will the Sun Shine for Me? Fox Trot (Abner Silver) Kaplan's Melodists 8852 Nice Red Star: 51110-L I''ll Take You Home Again Pal O'Mine (Dixon-Sacre) Tenor solo, Walter Scanlan (Intro: "Helen Clark") 8690 BL; SCT 51110-R Faded Love Letters (of Mine) (Moore-Dulmage) Baritone solo, J.Harold Murray (Intro: "The Homestead Trio") 8673 BL; SCT ;F Re-Creation: 51111-L Underneath the Mellow Moon, Medley Waltz Intro: "My Carolina Rose" (W.W.Hall) Kaplan's Melodists 8696 Nice 51111-R On a Moonlight Night, Waltz (L.Wolfe Gilbert) Kaplan's Melodists 8695 Nice Re-Creation: 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS 51113-L Jeannie, Fox Trot (Intro:"Honeymoon Lane") (D.Friend-C.Conrad) Steven's Quartet 8710 bBL label torn 51113-R That Dixie Melody, Fox Trot (Chas. A. Arthur) Kaplan's Melodists 8687 Nice 51156-L That Red Head Gal, Blues Fox Trot (Van & Schenck & Henry Lodge) Atlantic Dance Orch . 8927 BL at beginning 51156-R A Kiss in the Dark, Intro: "Weaving my Dreams" Medley Waltz (Victor Herbert) Kaplan's Melodists 8931 BL 51128-L Dance of the Nightingales (F.H. Losey ) Imperial Marimba Band 8828 F ( chp edge only) 51128-R Dream Flowers-Waltz Intermezzo (S. Translateur ) Imperial Marimba Band 8829 Good 51160-L Why Don't My Dreams Come True? (Geo.E.Patten) Soprano & Tenor. Esther Nelson & Charles Hart 8922 Nice 51160-R Lagoon Lullaby ( Galty Sellars ), tenor Walter Scanlan 8915 Gd, LS 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin , Fred Roth & Joe Garren ), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley ) tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges Red Star: 51281-L Take, Oh Take Those Lips Away, Fox Trot from "Ziegfeld Follies of 1923" ( Jos .McCarthy & Harry Tierney) California Entertainers 9290 BBL 51281-R Dream Daddy, Fox Trot (Louis Herscher & Geo. Keefer) California Entertainers 9289 LS Re-Creation: 80398-L My Waikiki Mermaid Hula Medley Waikiki Hawaiian Orch 5298 BL 80398-R Valse Llewellyn (Rudy Wiedoeft ) Saxaphone solo, Rudy Wiedoeft 5782 BL Re-Creation: 80635-L Sleepy Little Baby of Mine (Chas. Dennee ), soprano w orch , Betsy Lane Shepherd Humming Obbligato by Clara Brookhurst 7057 F; bBl (1) 80635-R Ole Uncle Moon (Chas.P.Scott) Males Voices Unaccompanied Criterion Quartet 7826 bBl (1) What is the function of the last numbers? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http ://phono-l. oldcrank .org From ger55 at comcast.net Fri Dec 25 00:36:07 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Mercer To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. Bruce _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From esroberto at hotmail.com Fri Dec 25 02:45:59 2009 From: esroberto at hotmail.com (Robert Wright) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:45:59 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>, , Message-ID: ONLY use denatured alcohol on Edison Diamond Discs, and use it ONLY on Edison Diamond Discs. Yes, alcohol in any form will indeed eat the top layer off shellac records, including the thin, lateral-cut Edison "Needle-Cut" discs, which are virtually identical to most shellac 78's. The surface of Edison DD's is not shellac, so alcohol is safe. More importantly, if any water finds its way between the surface and the cord of an Edison DD, it will swell and bubble under the surface, and render the disc almost unplayable. Alcohol evaporates so quickly, no chance exists of moisture getting and staying in the core material. Best of the holidays to all, Robert > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? > > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Trusted email with Microsoft?s powerful SPAM protection. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141664/direct/01/ From appywander at hotmail.com Fri Dec 25 03:27:37 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 06:27:37 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>, , Message-ID: Ger, I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't hurt the chemically tough surface of the records. The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms. Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who could come over and walk you througgh this a bit. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? > > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. > > Ger > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bruce Mercer > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. > Bruce > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From appywander at hotmail.com Fri Dec 25 05:04:22 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 08:04:22 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: References: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1>, <7D73B119-0F9B-4D9E-B562-285A64CDA36C@popyrus.com>, Message-ID: Ger, The proper terms for these parts are the 'limit pin' and 'limit loop', so called because together they limit the travel of the weight assembly. The diamond is a 'stylus' (that term implying a jeweled, permanent point) and it is mounted into the 'stylus bar' and is mounted on a pin between two 'bosses'. The stylus bar is connected to the diaphragm via the 'linkage' consisting of a braided silk cord with metal eyelets on either end. The weight (as stated in a previous post, swivels at one end via the 'hinge block'. All this is mounted to the 'body' of the reproducer which consists of a 'sound chamber', a 'tail' where the hinge block attaches, and a 'neck' or 'throat' that connects to the mount at the horn. There's your basic nomenclature. > From: ger55 at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 20:16:09 -0500 > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > HOWEVER, what I did notice (forgive me for not knowing proper terms): the small metal prong which is most forward in position on the reproducer, and sits in a V-shaped hook from the top (it goes up and down and side to side). Anywho, this prong was BENT to one side. I just straightened it, or at least got it to move symmetrically. I'm guessing that that bend might make the thing track badly, possibly causing damage to the record grooves?? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Andrew Baron > To: Antique Phonograph List > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 7:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > First, use a flashlight to see if there's anything back there. If > there is, you can inquire of this group on the procedure for removing > the slats. > > Regarding the stubborn horn movement, are you doing the right thing > when trying to move the horn assembly? Are you aware of how to work > the wood lever that's in the front right corner under the lid, and > that you must first pivot it over to the right until it's horizontal, > before rotating it counter-clockwise, along with a guiding hand on the > upper part, to swivel the whole works, while the lever is still rocked > all the way over level? > > It's possible that there's a mechanical issue but you first want to be > familiar with how to operate that lever to control the entire movement > of the horn and neck. > > It's also good to be aware that the damaged, etched grooves on the > records can be caused - not only by playing on a different kind of > phonograph that has a steel needle (or with a steel-needle adaptor on > an Edison), but also if played on a proper Edison disc machine, IF the > diamond on the Edison reproducer is chipped or damaged. So it's > possible you may be in the market for a new stylus or a reproducer > that has a viable one. You can sometimes get them pretty cheap on > eBay and get lucky on the condition of the diamond. > > Regarding the "yucky" cabinet and mechanism, maybe they'll clean up as > nicely as the records. A little TLC can go a long way. Old English > Lemon Oil from the grocery store on the cabinet, or something like it, > can work wonders. Don't be so quick to dismiss the experience of > seeing what this noble relic can do until you've gotten a little > better acquainted with it. > > Andy > > > On Dec 24, 2009, at 3:43 PM, ger wrote: > > > LOL. I like the idea of possible hidden treasure. Can't wait for > > Saturday. > > Now, to get behind the records area...how does one do that? The top > > on that side does not come up. Only the grill area opens from the > > front. I stuck my fingers into the slots and they seemed empty. > > Fortunately nothing was living in there either. :) > > > > But, ya know, come to think of it, the weight seemed to be more on > > the empty record side. hmmmmm Could be somebody added metal as > > support I suppose. I really didn't get under and inspect every nook > > and cranny. It was so yucky. And...don't forget, I am just an old > > broad! ;) > > > > Yes. The thing cranks, turns on and off. But to get the horn to move > > (from side to side), it needs some help. It moved a few times, then > > got stubborn. > > > > This is getting more interesting. This group is great. > > > > Ger > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:09 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > > > > Wonder why it is so heavy, any possibility that more records got > > pushed into the back of the record holding area, making the it more > > heavy then it should be. That happened with a Sonora I purchased > > about year and a half ago. The area to the rear of the record > > compartment was litterally filled with a stash of old records (a few > > real gems in there)as well as some original Sonora literature, > > including a beautifully illustrated Sonora Catalogue detailing the > > art models and bulge sided models, and many other details. You never > > know what hidden treaures might lie in the nooks and cranies of > > these old phonographs ! I am sure there are other tales others can > > tell as well. As far as the machine is concerned, if all she wants > > for it is 25bucks, you should grab it. The loose parts don't sound > > like much of a problem and if you have a working motor, turntable > > and crank, they are probably worth more then twice what you are > > paying for the entire machine and cabinet. You can always buy a r > > ep > > ro grill for that LC from one of the suppliers who advertises on > > line, and have a complete working machine to play those records on. > > > > Bruce > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "ger" > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 4:51:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada > > Eastern > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > > Hi, > > > > How do I know what type of reproducer I have? > > And what is the deal with the "Edisonic"?? > > Here's a link to photos: > > http://www.flickr.com/photos/gerdan/sets/72157622939629039/ > > > > The woman wants $25 for the rest of this machine...I don't know. It > > is really heavy and missing the grill on the right, loose parts; > > turntable goes around; she says it plays. > > > > Ger > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bruce Mercer > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 3:13 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > > > > Accordin to Frow they were introduced in 1922. They were sold along > > with the > > Edisonics and not further mentioned. Not to bore anybody again with > > this > > story but I bought one of the London Uprights that had never been > > uncrated. > > Fortunately, it had a nice new Edisonic reproducer just waiting for > > me. ;-) > > Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: > > To: "Antique Phonograph List" > > Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 9:35 AM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console > > > > > >> I believe the paper label on the inside indicates the number of the > >> Edison > >> Cabinet Factory. The London Console came out in the early 1920's, > >> and is a > >> common low priced model from Edison's "London Series". > >> > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Dec 25 07:34:12 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:34:12 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Disc cleaner Message-ID: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ZWY46mDTs Interesting, he states the wax was not a lubricant, but a mold release. I use his products on my best records, the ones I really care about. Steve From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Dec 25 08:12:02 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:12:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 In-Reply-To: References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>, , , , , Message-ID: Hello John, I believe you are totally correct, originally the sides of the record were coated to protect them from moisture absorption. Even the Blue Amberol must be shown the same consideration with regards to protecting it core. Those BA records that were properly stored in a dry environment slip all the way on the mandrel and some I have go so far there is 1/4 inch of mandrel showing. Denatured alcohol would ruin other records, yet it was a cleaner for the 'superior' Edison records. The steel needle vs the diamond, lateral vs vertical, all these things served to underscore the 'Edison superiority'. According to EDAR until in early 1921 the core was changed to China clay from wood flour. Long term or uncontrolled exposure of the core to moisture is what produces the damage. 5 minutes of surface cleaning especially when using the Disc doctors applicator and avoiding getting moisture to the core does much more good than harm. Under the M6B record label type EDAR states that the above. Too bad this book is out of print. Edison records get the sound from the bottom and are best graded in sunlight or a bright light. In bright light the record that appears shiny in normal light will show the dirt, grime and mold of the last 80 years. A proper cleaning removes damaging grit. The only concern I have with using alcohol to clean the records is removal of the crud. When the records were new the alcohol was an effective way of cleaning, now after 80 years of accumulation I wonder if and how the alcohol removes the crud and what procedure should be used. With the Disc Doctor's method his cleaner loosens the crud and distilled water is used to remove it. Please note aside from the facts above that came from EDAR all is my opinion and was stated for the purpose of my learning. Best regards, Steve > Ger, > I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic > resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't hurt the chemically tough surface of the records. > > The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms. > > Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who could come over and walk you througgh this a bit. > > > From: ger55 at comcast.net > > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? > > > > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. > > > > Ger > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bruce Mercer > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > > > > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water > > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. > > Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Fri Dec 25 11:26:12 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:26:12 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 References: <288512454.4678181261683769370.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net>, , , , , Message-ID: <5453163499F44724A7CF008FB8CA97D0@Vaio> I could not be more opposed to using the "Disc Doctor" solution containing water! In cleaning DD I use brushes as used in the Disc Doctor and I assure you the alcohol does a far better and safer job than distilled water and their magic ingredient. It dissolves all manner of dirt, nicotine, dust that has "sat up" for eighty years and anything else I could imagine. Try a white tee shirt before and after...see what does and doesn't come off. Do the same with water and the magic ingredient and see what you get. I find it very hard not to get the edges wet using alcohol. I can't understand why anybody would use water knowing what it does to the core. If you don't believe the bottom of the grooves are really clean using alcohol and the right brush, look at them with a good microscope. If you want to experiment with water and tanna leaves, do so on a junk record, even one that "looks" clean already. Yes, the edges were coated with wax for protection and the surface was waxed with stearate. We've had this discussion a while back. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Medved" To: "Phono-l" Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > Hello John, > > I believe you are totally correct, originally the sides of the record were > coated to protect them from moisture absorption. Even the Blue Amberol > must be shown the same consideration with regards to protecting it core. > Those BA records that were properly stored in a dry environment slip all > the way on the mandrel and some I have go so far there is 1/4 inch of > mandrel showing. > > Denatured alcohol would ruin other records, yet it was a cleaner for the > 'superior' Edison records. The steel needle vs the diamond, lateral vs > vertical, all these things served to underscore the 'Edison superiority'. > > According to EDAR until in early 1921 the core was changed to China clay > from wood flour. Long term or uncontrolled exposure of the core to > moisture is what produces the damage. 5 minutes of surface cleaning > especially when using the Disc doctors applicator and avoiding getting > moisture to the core does much more good than harm. > > Under the M6B record label type EDAR states that the above. Too bad this > book is out of print. > > Edison records get the sound from the bottom and are best graded in > sunlight or a bright light. In bright light the record that appears shiny > in normal light will show the dirt, grime and mold of the last 80 years. > A proper cleaning removes damaging grit. > > The only concern I have with using alcohol to clean the records is removal > of the crud. When the records were new the alcohol was an effective way > of cleaning, now after 80 years of accumulation I wonder if and how the > alcohol removes the crud and what procedure should be used. > > With the Disc Doctor's method his cleaner loosens the crud and distilled > water is used to remove it. Please note aside from the facts above that > came from EDAR all is my opinion and was stated for the purpose of my > learning. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > >> Ger, >> I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a >> phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison >> called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most >> chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern >> was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record >> because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic >> resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in >> contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive >> wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying >> to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't >> hurt the chemically tough surface of the records. >> >> The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge >> block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms. >> >> Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who >> could come over and walk you througgh this a bit. >> >> > From: ger55 at comcast.net >> > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 >> > >> > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as >> > shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? >> > >> > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't >> > realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. >> > >> > Ger >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Bruce Mercer >> > To: Antique Phonograph List >> > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 >> > >> > >> > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol >> > has water >> > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear >> > bearing. >> > Bruce >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From t at edisonTriumph.com Fri Dec 25 12:46:49 2009 From: t at edisonTriumph.com (t at edisonTriumph.com) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:46:49 GMT Subject: [Phono-L] Slip-on Concert Mandrel Message-ID: <200912251331.3SOWT00@cat2.com> I?m looking for a mandrel like those used on Columbia AB models that slips over the standard mandrel to play 5? records BUT I want to use it on an Edison Concert with a standard mandrel. Does anyone have one or know of a source? Thanks, Terry --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . From andy at popyrus.com Fri Dec 25 13:19:55 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:19:55 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison London Console In-Reply-To: References: <2029722005.4700391261692577202.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net><931208D459C7485B8F10589990556B71@GER1> <7D73B119-0F9B-4D9E-B562-285A64CDA36C@popyrus.com> Message-ID: Hi Ger ~ Sounds like you got the desired result, straightening the limit pin. A badly bent limit pin certainly could cause poor tracking and possible excessive wear. The big counterweight would be forced to track favoring one side, which in turn would put the diaphragm link at an angle, risk the pin rubbing on the edge of the limit loop, cause a sideways scrape of the diamond across several grooves when the reproducer is set upon the record and removed, adversely affect the automatic stop, etc. It sounds like you might be lucky and have a nicely preserved diamond. The diamond is as hard as .. diamond, so it takes a long time to wear out in normal use, BUT being hard, it's also brittle and can be fractured if the reproducer drops abrubtly to the record surface (from mishandling the control lever), or from striking something hard just the wrong way. Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ger wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Great insight on the stylus as a possible cause for damage...thanks > > I see a shiney smooth point in the diamond area...overall, kind of > triangular where it's sitting. I used a 10x loupe. > HOWEVER, what I did notice (forgive me for not knowing proper > terms): the small metal prong which is most forward in position on > the reproducer, and sits in a V-shaped hook from the top (it goes up > and down and side to side). Anywho, this prong was BENT to one side. > I just straightened it, or at least got it to move symmetrically. > I'm guessing that that bend might make the thing track badly, > possibly causing damage to the record grooves?? > From andy at popyrus.com Fri Dec 25 13:28:31 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:28:31 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> References: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> Message-ID: Some fun stuff here. Just a couple of notes: > 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra > Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) > 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch > Fred Van Eps 3308 BL (nr center only) This was an incredibly popular record in its day, judging by the number of copies that turn up. About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. Still performing in his 80s at that time. ------------------- > > 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F > 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS This record really is worth listening closely to. Van Eps' virtuosic playing is readily apparent. Not as common as 50195. ------------------- > > 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin, Fred Roth & > Joe Garren), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks > 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley) > tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges The L side warns against what the "flapper" can expect if she keeps up her loose behavior (if I'm remembering this one correctly). Jim Doherty had a heartfelt way of putting across a song. The R side is self explanatory, and a good chance to hear half of "The Happiness Boys". From steve_noreen at msn.com Fri Dec 25 14:43:25 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 17:43:25 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... In-Reply-To: <9358.4ee240cf.3865426e@aol.com> References: <9358.4ee240cf.3865426e@aol.com> Message-ID: Hello Al, I have the iron and bare pot metal ones, I could send the dimensions if you like. Steve > From: clockworkhome at aol.com > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:17:18 -0500 > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... > > Thanks Steve: > > I had totally forgotten about the late conversion kits. It would be > interesting for a collector with all of those adapter rings to take a micrometer > to them. > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Fri Dec 25 15:04:40 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:04:40 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc References: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> Message-ID: <62ED9971210349E5A157436B9A07A38B@GER1> Cute stuff. :) BUT...that last record, Just a Girl, is actually gouged in several areas...it is definitely the worst of the lot. It looks like it was moth-eaten (both sides). I know that that's not the case, but that's what it looks like. I doubt I could play anything but a few sections. It was going to be my "test" record when I got the machine...so that I wouldn't damage the others anymore. Of course, now that I know more about cleaning records, stylus condition, etc., it calls for more time. HOWEVER, unfortunately, and more importantly, if I recall correctly, the machine is **MISSING the whole vertical front section including the rod going into the horn (thanks to Steve M's photo). That's probably why the first explanation didn't make sense to me. The horn moves, but apparently only from the connection at the back, and it scrapes the bottom of the wood. If that's the case, there must be tremendous stress on both the records and reproducer! Now I'm not sure what to do about the whole thing. I'm going back on Saturday (tomorrow) just to double check on my recollection...I was going to pick up the machine then...not so sure now. Frankly, I don't mind cleaning records and oiling or adjusting stuff...learning how things work...but looking for major missing parts...ugh. I sure would love to hear these records though...and I REALLY appreciate all the help I've gotten, especially from *Steve. This had been such fun until...well it has been fun. I live in the northwest corner of Connecticut, near the Mass and NY borders. I'm right off a major highway (Rte 44). Ger ger55 at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Some fun stuff here. Just a couple of notes: > 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra > Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) > 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch > Fred Van Eps 3308 BL (nr center only) This was an incredibly popular record in its day, judging by the number of copies that turn up. About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. Still performing in his 80s at that time. ------------------- > > 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F > 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS This record really is worth listening closely to. Van Eps' virtuosic playing is readily apparent. Not as common as 50195. ------------------- > > 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin, Fred Roth & > Joe Garren), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks > 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley) > tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges The L side warns against what the "flapper" can expect if she keeps up her loose behavior (if I'm remembering this one correctly). Jim Doherty had a heartfelt way of putting across a song. The R side is self explanatory, and a good chance to hear half of "The Happiness Boys". _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From jnichol at fuse.net Fri Dec 25 15:55:22 2009 From: jnichol at fuse.net (Jim Nichol) Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:55:22 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc In-Reply-To: References: <025B9407F979495D88577CAAE7507BD5@GER1> Message-ID: I see on Wikipedia that George invented the 7-string guitar. You can see him playing one in a bunch of Youtube videos. Jim On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: > About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. > Still performing in his 80s at that time. From abefeder1 at gmail.com Sat Dec 26 10:09:56 2009 From: abefeder1 at gmail.com (Abe Feder) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:09:56 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... In-Reply-To: References: <9358.4ee240cf.3865426e@aol.com> Message-ID: <4e885f140912261009u696ea278ocb5e981a1b5c2ec5@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, This item is something that I have been looking for as well and it seems that whenever one is found either orginial or repo it is snapped up. If a good drawing or deminsonal photos could be done i would think we could get a machine shop to make them up. If we had a order for a group of them I am sure that the cost would be less per item. Any thoughts? Abe Feder On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Steven Medved wrote: > > Hello Al, > > I have the iron and bare pot metal ones, I could send the dimensions if you > like. > > Steve > > > From: clockworkhome at aol.com > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:17:18 -0500 > > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large > carriage... > > > > Thanks Steve: > > > > I had totally forgotten about the late conversion kits. It would be > > interesting for a collector with all of those adapter rings to take a > micrometer > > to them. > > > > Al > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > From ger55 at comcast.net Sat Dec 26 19:13:58 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:13:58 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger From lherault at bu.edu Sat Dec 26 21:16:34 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:16:34 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <004001ca86b3$c235bc90$46a135b0$@edu> The horn was soldered to an arm that attaches to the vertical pipe. It is not a pretty solder job. It was never supposed to be seen by the public 8-) Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:14 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Sun Dec 27 02:41:57 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 05:41:57 EST Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: ger _Michigan Antique Phonograph Society_ (http://www.michiganantiquephonographsociety.org/) you should go to one of the phono shows in the spring there is one in wayne new jersey and i believe lynn bilton still has one in connecticut about 50 mile south of you down rte 7 you may be able to find it on maps link In a message dated 12/26/2009 10:14:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ger55 at comcast.net writes: The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisone1 at verizon.net Sun Dec 27 10:11:15 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (DanKj) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:11:15 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think References: Message-ID: Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records From bruce78rpm at comcast.net Sun Dec 27 14:42:25 2009 From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:42:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <1743010146.5084191261953745838.JavaMail.root@sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Yes, those Edison Table models are few and far between, and because of that they can get pricey. I would suggest you send us some photos of what you described. Ron was correct on all counts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DanKj" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:11:15 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From tomj33 at msn.com Sun Dec 27 15:49:32 2009 From: tomj33 at msn.com (Tom Jordan) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:49:32 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the back room of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They didn't know what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph and it got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in my home office. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of DanKj Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:11 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From edisone1 at verizon.net Sun Dec 27 16:17:06 2009 From: edisone1 at verizon.net (Dan K) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:17:06 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think References: Message-ID: Trudy the Angora Cat favors our BC for napping and watching the records spin. Mine was way more than $40, but did come with an excellent 78/Pathe adapter & bonus crate of nice discs - and it's always interesting to see what constituted a vintage record collection. Your find reminds me of my Brunswick - it was in the back room of a coin/stamp/45rpm store in the country outside of Buffalo. They wanted $50, which I managed to raise (being 12 yrs old, when $50 wasn't to sneeze at) but I couldn't move it home right away. So, I gave them the money & took every part I could carry - reproducer, crank, all the old packs of needles, instruction books, even the turntable. Then I locked the lid took the key. Took me a month to convince my father to drive out there & haul the thing back . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jordan" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think >I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the back room > of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They didn't know > what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph and it > got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in my > home > office. > Tom From andy at popyrus.com Sun Dec 27 17:31:53 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:31:53 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Edison BC-34 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <9A936110-248E-410E-AEAF-360769C65FE8@popyrus.com> My first Edison was also a BC-34, first laid eyes on it in 1976 when I was 14, in the back of a pickup truck at a flea market. Beautifully preserved original-finish machine with the bronze finish reproducer and metal parts. It had the 10 and 12 buttons for stopping the reproducer at the ten or twelve inch start position. I couldn't afford the $135 for the machine, so I bought several DD records. It only took me a few seconds of trying to play one on my steel-needle machine at home, to realize that there was no choice but to go back and buy the machine. I horse-traded whatever I owned and somehow raised the cash and went back the following weekend. I found the seller but no BC-34. Turns out he still had it and (for understandable reasons) decided not to cart it back to the flea. I got directions to his house, and met up with him the next day. I really had to twist my older brother's arm to allow me to put it in the back of his hatchback Mustang. I can't imagine how we shoe-horned it in there, but somehow we did. I'm sure I fussed about jamming cardboard everywhere, because we got it home without a scratch. My big prize, and a red letter day in my early phonograph collecting life. I played that machine incessantly. Just a memory now, as it was destroyed in 1992 by Hurricane Andrew. By that time, it was with a friend in Miami, as I had moved to Santa Fe 9 years earlier. Andy Baron On Dec 27, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Tom Jordan wrote: > I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the > back room > of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They > didn't know > what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph > and it > got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in > my home > office. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of DanKj > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:11 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think > > Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made > it seem > such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, > and if > there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume > control, which > > I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the > slots > sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the > cabinet? > > You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models > are > less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My > Chalet > weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ger" > > >> The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like >> it had >> been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a >> cable, wood >> block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. >> Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... >> >> Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is >> now a bit > >> wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She >> seemed not >> at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something >> about the >> poor mess. >> >> As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and >> checked > >> out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see >> that 2, >> that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. >> They went >> across the back, one high, one low. \ >> >> >> I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) >> which >> could play my records > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Mon Dec 28 13:34:20 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:34:20 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records Message-ID: The 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records I have are 8708 with a Patd 26, (and the 26 is light like the catalog number on the 1901 to 1904 records with no titles) 10120, 10146, 10278, 10303 .3 & ..6, 10377, and 10395. The 18 records I have from 10396 to 10562 are all the regular wax. The last 2 minute title release was in Sept 1912 but Edison continued to sell them until the fire. I would be interested in knowing if anyone has any of the records outside my range. You can tell them by the mold line at the bottom of the record like the four minute wax amberol. I have never seen a four minute wax amberol without the mold line. I wonder if the excessive surface noise caused Edison to stop using the formula for the 2 minute records or if I have just never found any later ones. The wax amberol wax 2 minute records sound great when new or in excellent condition, when worn they have a lot more surface noise than the regular formula records. Finding one that is not cracked or chipped is very rare, the only advantage is they are not affected by mold. One of the best songs, Its moonlight all the time on Broadway by Murray is only found on 10303 as far as I know. Best wishes, Steve From gpaul2000 at aol.com Mon Dec 28 14:25:28 2009 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com (gpaul2000 at aol.com) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:25:28 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <8CC5623CB15B606-8734-2508@webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com> I wouldn't want anyone - especially newcomers to the hobby - to be confused: wax Amberol Records are all 4 minute. Amberol was Edison's trade name for 4 minute cylinder records. From 1908-1912 these Amberol Records were made of a black wax-like substance. From late 1912 - 1929 the 4 minute cylinders (in the popular series) were made of blue celluloid with plaster cores. These were called "Blue Amberol" records. Amberol = 4 minute record. George P. -----Original Message----- From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 4:34 pm Subject: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records The 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records I have are 8708 with a Patd 26, (and the 26 is light like the catalog number on the 1901 to 1904 records with no titles) 10120, 10146, 10278, 10303 .3 & ..6, 10377, and 10395. The 18 records I have from 10396 to 10562 are all the regular wax. The last 2 minute title release was in Sept 1912 but Edison continued to sell them until the fire. I would be interested in knowing if anyone has any of the records outside my range. You can tell them by the mold line at the bottom of the record like the four minute wax amberol. I have never seen a four minute wax amberol without the mold line. I wonder if the excessive surface noise caused Edison to stop using the formula for the 2 minute records or if I have just never found any later ones. The wax amberol wax 2 minute records sound great when new or in excellent condition, when worn they have a lot more surface noise than the regular formula records. Finding one that is not cracked or chipped is very rare, the only advantage is they are not affected by mold. One of the best songs, Its moonlight all the time on Broadway by Murray is only found on 10303 as far as I know. Best wishes, Steve _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From zuccawt at comcast.net Mon Dec 28 15:00:31 2009 From: zuccawt at comcast.net (zuccawt at comcast.net) Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:00:31 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Message-ID: <1322843472.3514411262041231991.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself.? I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as?film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp.? I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion.? But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound.?I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine.? That leads me to a request.? I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration.? If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca From zonophone2006 at aol.com Tue Dec 29 02:58:20 2009 From: zonophone2006 at aol.com (zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:58:20 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed In-Reply-To: <1322843472.3514411262041231991.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <1322843472.3514411262041231991.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <8CC568CF7EF69C3-4D8C-A436@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> HI BILL welcome to the list great car you have too lets get glen on the list too happy holidays rob in florida -----Original Message----- From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: PhonoList Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself. I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp. I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion. But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound. I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine. That leads me to a request. I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration. If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From zuccawt at comcast.net Tue Dec 29 05:36:15 2009 From: zuccawt at comcast.net (zuccawt at comcast.net) Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:36:15 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed In-Reply-To: <8CC568CF7EF69C3-4D8C-A436@webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Message-ID: <928889926.3617961262093775555.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Rob:? What a nice surprise to find you on the list.? Will say suggest to Glen that he subscribe. BillZ ----- Original Message ----- From: zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:58:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed ?HI BILL welcome to the list great car you have too lets get glen on the list too happy holidays rob in florida ? ? -----Original Message----- From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: PhonoList Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself. ?I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp. ?I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion. ?But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound. I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine. ? That leads me to a request. ?I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration. ?If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From steve_noreen at msn.com Wed Dec 30 14:36:39 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:36:39 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer Message-ID: http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine-RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 From Zonophone2006 at aol.com Wed Dec 30 15:14:01 2009 From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:14:01 EST Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer Message-ID: HOPE HE GETS IT TOO BAD ITS NOT A MOBLEY OR FLETCHER REPRODUCER MMMMMMMMM ZONO In a message dated 12/30/2009 5:37:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve_noreen at msn.com writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine-RARE_W0QQitemZ17 0426053885 From t at edisonTriumph.com Wed Dec 30 17:26:39 2009 From: t at edisonTriumph.com (t at edisonTriumph.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:26:39 GMT Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Message-ID: <200912301803.3SVGR00@cat2.com> The machine is TOO late for an Automatic. Only the first month or so of production had them and serial numbers run from about 29,000 to 30,000. I've only seen a handful of such machines. The early cases had sharper corners and thinner walls. This example with SN 46,315 appears to be in the correct late case but has had an earlier carriage added at some point. Terry P. Baer St. Louis Email: T at edisonTriumph.com -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:37 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine- RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . From john9ten at pacbell.net Wed Dec 30 16:19:23 2009 From: john9ten at pacbell.net (john9ten at pacbell.net) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:19:23 +0000 Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Message-ID: <320397753-1262218658-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-320387817-@bda006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> That seller is almost always dishonest or at least misleading. John Robles ------Original Message------ From: t at edisonTriumph.com Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: phono-l at oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Sent: Dec 30, 2009 5:26 PM The machine is TOO late for an Automatic. Only the first month or so of production had them and serial numbers run from about 29,000 to 30,000. I've only seen a handful of such machines. The early cases had sharper corners and thinner walls. This example with SN 46,315 appears to be in the correct late case but has had an earlier carriage added at some point. Terry P. Baer St. Louis Email: T at edisonTriumph.com -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:37 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine- RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry From steve_noreen at msn.com Wed Dec 30 16:41:32 2009 From: steve_noreen at msn.com (Steven Medved) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 19:41:32 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer In-Reply-To: <200912301803.3SVGR00@cat2.com> References: <200912301803.3SVGR00@cat2.com> Message-ID: Hello Terry, I appreciate to no end the information you provided below, it helps me so much. Frow's book says the Triumph A appeared in the spring of 1901. Do you have any idea the months when 29,000 to 30,000 would have been made? The last automatic has a hinge block and limit loop, 211558 is the highest serial number I have seen and for many years I have been trying to get an estimate of the month when the automatic last appeared so I can get an idea of the month in 1901 the automatic was replaced by the early B with the arm. The early B did not have a notch for the centering pin until around serial number 17,000 so I assume that 17,000 was Feb 1902. I have seen standards, homes, and triumphs with the carriage with the clips with the early B with no notch. Thanks, Steve > The machine is TOO late for an Automatic. Only the first month or so of > production had them and serial numbers run from about 29,000 to 30,000. I've > only seen a handful of such machines. The early cases had sharper corners and > thinner walls. This example with SN 46,315 appears to be in the correct late > case but has had an earlier carriage added at some point. > > Terry P. Baer > St. Louis > Email: T at edisonTriumph.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On > Behalf Of Steven Medved > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:37 PM > To: Phono-l; phonolist > Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine- > RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > > --------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . > web-based email system . > http://www.cat2.com . > > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From zuccawt at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 18:35:51 2009 From: zuccawt at comcast.net (zuccawt at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:35:51 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite Message-ID: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Dear Phonolisters : Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand............. Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? Thanks, Bill Z From appywander at hotmail.com Wed Dec 30 18:43:20 2009 From: appywander at hotmail.com (John Maeder) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:43:20 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite In-Reply-To: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: Google to the rescue! "Polishing Bakelite" yielded this at the top of the page (and there are others): http://www.radiolaguy.com/clean-shine.htm > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:35:51 +0000 > From: zuccawt at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite > > > > Dear Phonolisters : > > > > Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand............. > > > > Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill Z > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rrocrrec at aol.com Wed Dec 30 18:43:31 2009 From: rrocrrec at aol.com (rrocrrec at aol.com) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:43:31 EST Subject: [Phono-L] Phono-L Digest, Vol 6, Issue 180 Message-ID: <6dd7.60036100.386d69d3@aol.com> In a message dated 12/30/2009 16:19:15 Pacific Standard Time, phono-l-request at oldcrank.org writes: Send Phono-L mailing list submissions to phono-l at oldcrank.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://oldcrank.org/mailman/listinfo/phono-l or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to phono-l-request at oldcrank.org You can reach the person managing the list at phono-l-owner at oldcrank.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Phono-L digest..." If you reply, please change your subject line and don't include this entire digest in your message. Today's Topics: 1. Disc cleaner (Steven Medved) 2. Re: Diamond Discs 15 (Steven Medved) 3. Re: Diamond Discs 15 (Bruce Mercer) 4. Slip-on Concert Mandrel (t at edisonTriumph.com) 5. Re: Edison London Console (Andrew Baron) 6. Re: Ger's List of Diamond Disc (Andrew Baron) 7. Re: Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... (Steven Medved) 8. Re: Ger's List of Diamond Disc (ger) 9. Re: Ger's List of Diamond Disc (Jim Nichol) 10. Re: Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... (Abe Feder) 11. The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (ger) 12. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (Ron L'Herault) 13. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) 14. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (DanKj) 15. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (bruce78rpm at comcast.net) 16. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (Tom Jordan) 17. Re: The last word on Diamond Discs...I think (Dan K) 18. Edison BC-34 (Andrew Baron) 19. 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records (Steven Medved) 20. Re: 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records (gpaul2000 at aol.com) 21. Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed (zuccawt at comcast.net) 22. Re: Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed (zonophone2006 at aol.com) 23. Re: Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed (zuccawt at comcast.net) 24. 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer (Steven Medved) 25. Re: 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer (Zonophone2006 at aol.com) 26. Re: 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer (t at edisonTriumph.com) 27. Re: 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer (john9ten at pacbell.net) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 10:34:12 -0500 From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l , phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] Disc cleaner Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8ZWY46mDTs Interesting, he states the wax was not a lubricant, but a mold release. I use his products on my best records, the ones I really care about. Steve ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 11:12:02 -0500 From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello John, I believe you are totally correct, originally the sides of the record were coated to protect them from moisture absorption. Even the Blue Amberol must be shown the same consideration with regards to protecting it core. Those BA records that were properly stored in a dry environment slip all the way on the mandrel and some I have go so far there is 1/4 inch of mandrel showing. Denatured alcohol would ruin other records, yet it was a cleaner for the 'superior' Edison records. The steel needle vs the diamond, lateral vs vertical, all these things served to underscore the 'Edison superiority'. According to EDAR until in early 1921 the core was changed to China clay from wood flour. Long term or uncontrolled exposure of the core to moisture is what produces the damage. 5 minutes of surface cleaning especially when using the Disc doctors applicator and avoiding getting moisture to the core does much more good than harm. Under the M6B record label type EDAR states that the above. Too bad this book is out of print. Edison records get the sound from the bottom and are best graded in sunlight or a bright light. In bright light the record that appears shiny in normal light will show the dirt, grime and mold of the last 80 years. A proper cleaning removes damaging grit. The only concern I have with using alcohol to clean the records is removal of the crud. When the records were new the alcohol was an effective way of cleaning, now after 80 years of accumulation I wonder if and how the alcohol removes the crud and what procedure should be used. With the Disc Doctor's method his cleaner loosens the crud and distilled water is used to remove it. Please note aside from the facts above that came from EDAR all is my opinion and was stated for the purpose of my learning. Best regards, Steve > Ger, > I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic > resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't hurt the chemically tough surface of the records. > > The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms. > > Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who could come over and walk you througgh this a bit. > > > From: ger55 at comcast.net > > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? > > > > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. > > > > Ger > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Bruce Mercer > > To: Antique Phonograph List > > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > > > > > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol has water > > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear bearing. > > Bruce > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 13:26:12 -0600 From: "Bruce Mercer" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 Message-ID: <5453163499F44724A7CF008FB8CA97D0 at Vaio> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original I could not be more opposed to using the "Disc Doctor" solution containing water! In cleaning DD I use brushes as used in the Disc Doctor and I assure you the alcohol does a far better and safer job than distilled water and their magic ingredient. It dissolves all manner of dirt, nicotine, dust that has "sat up" for eighty years and anything else I could imagine. Try a white tee shirt before and after...see what does and doesn't come off. Do the same with water and the magic ingredient and see what you get. I find it very hard not to get the edges wet using alcohol. I can't understand why anybody would use water knowing what it does to the core. If you don't believe the bottom of the grooves are really clean using alcohol and the right brush, look at them with a good microscope. If you want to experiment with water and tanna leaves, do so on a junk record, even one that "looks" clean already. Yes, the edges were coated with wax for protection and the surface was waxed with stearate. We've had this discussion a while back. Bruce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Medved" To: "Phono-l" Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:12 AM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 > > Hello John, > > I believe you are totally correct, originally the sides of the record were > coated to protect them from moisture absorption. Even the Blue Amberol > must be shown the same consideration with regards to protecting it core. > Those BA records that were properly stored in a dry environment slip all > the way on the mandrel and some I have go so far there is 1/4 inch of > mandrel showing. > > Denatured alcohol would ruin other records, yet it was a cleaner for the > 'superior' Edison records. The steel needle vs the diamond, lateral vs > vertical, all these things served to underscore the 'Edison superiority'. > > According to EDAR until in early 1921 the core was changed to China clay > from wood flour. Long term or uncontrolled exposure of the core to > moisture is what produces the damage. 5 minutes of surface cleaning > especially when using the Disc doctors applicator and avoiding getting > moisture to the core does much more good than harm. > > Under the M6B record label type EDAR states that the above. Too bad this > book is out of print. > > Edison records get the sound from the bottom and are best graded in > sunlight or a bright light. In bright light the record that appears shiny > in normal light will show the dirt, grime and mold of the last 80 years. > A proper cleaning removes damaging grit. > > The only concern I have with using alcohol to clean the records is removal > of the crud. When the records were new the alcohol was an effective way > of cleaning, now after 80 years of accumulation I wonder if and how the > alcohol removes the crud and what procedure should be used. > > With the Disc Doctor's method his cleaner loosens the crud and distilled > water is used to remove it. Please note aside from the facts above that > came from EDAR all is my opinion and was stated for the purpose of my > learning. > > Best regards, > > Steve > > >> Ger, >> I mentioned in my previous post that The surface of the records is a >> phenolic resin derived from coal tar similar to Bakelite that Edison >> called Condensite. Phenolic resin is some of the toughest and most >> chemically-neutral stuff on the planet. I don't think Edison's concern >> was that a drop of water should ever touch the surface of a record >> because water is simply not going to react with a phenolic >> resin in any way. I think the concern really was that water would come in >> contact with the edges of the record since the core is highly absorbtive >> wood flour and clay.. I'm not advocating the use of water, merely trying >> to explain the reasoning for the use of alcohol and why alcohol won't >> hurt the chemically tough surface of the records. >> >> The 'bearing' you oiled on the reproducer is properly called a 'hinge >> block'. Cylinder reproducers have them, too, in various forms. >> >> Where do you live, Ger? Perhaps there is another collector nearby who >> could come over and walk you througgh this a bit. >> >> > From: ger55 at comcast.net >> > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org >> > Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 03:36:07 -0500 >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 >> > >> > I have a can of denatured alcohol. It says that it can be used as >> > shellac thinner. Won't that harm the top layer of the records?? >> > >> > I put some light machine oil at the back of the reproducer...didn't >> > realize that it had a bearing. Thanks. >> > >> > Ger >> > >> > >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: Bruce Mercer >> > To: Antique Phonograph List >> > Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 10:08 PM >> > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Diamond Discs 15 >> > >> > >> > NEVER use water on DD. Use denatured alcohol. Even rubbing alcohol >> > has water >> > in it.Also, make sure the reproducer is properly oiled at the rear >> > bearing. >> > Bruce >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Phono-L mailing list >> > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 20:46:49 GMT From: t at edisonTriumph.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Cc: terry.baer at gmail.com Subject: [Phono-L] Slip-on Concert Mandrel Message-ID: <200912251331.3SOWT00 at cat2.com> I?m looking for a mandrel like those used on Columbia AB models that slips over the standard mandrel to play 5? records BUT I want to use it on an Edison Concert with a standard mandrel. Does anyone have one or know of a source? Thanks, Terry --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:19:55 -0700 From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison London Console Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Hi Ger ~ Sounds like you got the desired result, straightening the limit pin. A badly bent limit pin certainly could cause poor tracking and possible excessive wear. The big counterweight would be forced to track favoring one side, which in turn would put the diaphragm link at an angle, risk the pin rubbing on the edge of the limit loop, cause a sideways scrape of the diamond across several grooves when the reproducer is set upon the record and removed, adversely affect the automatic stop, etc. It sounds like you might be lucky and have a nicely preserved diamond. The diamond is as hard as .. diamond, so it takes a long time to wear out in normal use, BUT being hard, it's also brittle and can be fractured if the reproducer drops abrubtly to the record surface (from mishandling the control lever), or from striking something hard just the wrong way. Andy On Dec 24, 2009, at 6:16 PM, ger wrote: > Hi Andy, > > Great insight on the stylus as a possible cause for damage...thanks > > I see a shiney smooth point in the diamond area...overall, kind of > triangular where it's sitting. I used a 10x loupe. > HOWEVER, what I did notice (forgive me for not knowing proper > terms): the small metal prong which is most forward in position on > the reproducer, and sits in a V-shaped hook from the top (it goes up > and down and side to side). Anywho, this prong was BENT to one side. > I just straightened it, or at least got it to move symmetrically. > I'm guessing that that bend might make the thing track badly, > possibly causing damage to the record grooves?? > ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 14:28:31 -0700 From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Some fun stuff here. Just a couple of notes: > 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra > Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) > 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch > Fred Van Eps 3308 BL (nr center only) This was an incredibly popular record in its day, judging by the number of copies that turn up. About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. Still performing in his 80s at that time. ------------------- > > 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F > 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS This record really is worth listening closely to. Van Eps' virtuosic playing is readily apparent. Not as common as 50195. ------------------- > > 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin, Fred Roth & > Joe Garren), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks > 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley) > tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges The L side warns against what the "flapper" can expect if she keeps up her loose behavior (if I'm remembering this one correctly). Jim Doherty had a heartfelt way of putting across a song. The R side is self explanatory, and a good chance to hear half of "The Happiness Boys". ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 17:43:25 -0500 From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hello Al, I have the iron and bare pot metal ones, I could send the dimensions if you like. Steve > From: clockworkhome at aol.com > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:17:18 -0500 > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... > > Thanks Steve: > > I had totally forgotten about the late conversion kits. It would be > interesting for a collector with all of those adapter rings to take a micrometer > to them. > > Al > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:04:40 -0500 From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Message-ID: <62ED9971210349E5A157436B9A07A38B at GER1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Cute stuff. :) BUT...that last record, Just a Girl, is actually gouged in several areas...it is definitely the worst of the lot. It looks like it was moth-eaten (both sides). I know that that's not the case, but that's what it looks like. I doubt I could play anything but a few sections. It was going to be my "test" record when I got the machine...so that I wouldn't damage the others anymore. Of course, now that I know more about cleaning records, stylus condition, etc., it calls for more time. HOWEVER, unfortunately, and more importantly, if I recall correctly, the machine is **MISSING the whole vertical front section including the rod going into the horn (thanks to Steve M's photo). That's probably why the first explanation didn't make sense to me. The horn moves, but apparently only from the connection at the back, and it scrapes the bottom of the wood. If that's the case, there must be tremendous stress on both the records and reproducer! Now I'm not sure what to do about the whole thing. I'm going back on Saturday (tomorrow) just to double check on my recollection...I was going to pick up the machine then...not so sure now. Frankly, I don't mind cleaning records and oiling or adjusting stuff...learning how things work...but looking for major missing parts...ugh. I sure would love to hear these records though...and I REALLY appreciate all the help I've gotten, especially from *Steve. This had been such fun until...well it has been fun. I live in the northwest corner of Connecticut, near the Mass and NY borders. I'm right off a major highway (Rte 44). Ger ger55 at comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:28 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Some fun stuff here. Just a couple of notes: > 50195-L Infanta March (Gregory) Banjo with Orchestra > Fred Van Eps 3307 BL; SCT (lot) > 50195-R Dixie Medley, Banjo w Orch > Fred Van Eps 3308 BL (nr center only) This was an incredibly popular record in its day, judging by the number of copies that turn up. About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. Still performing in his 80s at that time. ------------------- > > 51112-L Chinese Picnic & Oriental Dance > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8692 BBL;F > 51112-R Cocoanut Dance (Andrew Hermann) > Banjo solo, Fred Van Eps 8691 LS This record really is worth listening closely to. Van Eps' virtuosic playing is readily apparent. Not as common as 50195. ------------------- > > 51220-L Just a Girl that Men Forget (Al Dubin, Fred Roth & > Joe Garren), tenor Jim Doherty 9096 Deep gouges in tracks > 51220-R The Gold-Digger (Dig a Little Deeper) (James F. Hanley) > tenor, Billy Jones 9095 Deep gouges The L side warns against what the "flapper" can expect if she keeps up her loose behavior (if I'm remembering this one correctly). Jim Doherty had a heartfelt way of putting across a song. The R side is self explanatory, and a good chance to hear half of "The Happiness Boys". _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Fri, 25 Dec 2009 18:55:22 -0500 From: Jim Nichol To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Ger's List of Diamond Disc Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii I see on Wikipedia that George invented the 7-string guitar. You can see him playing one in a bunch of Youtube videos. Jim On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:28 PM, Andrew Baron wrote: > About 15 years ago, I saw a performance here by Van Eps' son George, himself a noted jazz guitarist. > Still performing in his 80s at that time. ------------------------------ Message: 10 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 12:09:56 -0600 From: Abe Feder To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large carriage... Message-ID: <4e885f140912261009u696ea278ocb5e981a1b5c2ec5 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi All, This item is something that I have been looking for as well and it seems that whenever one is found either orginial or repo it is snapped up. If a good drawing or deminsonal photos could be done i would think we could get a machine shop to make them up. If we had a order for a group of them I am sure that the cost would be less per item. Any thoughts? Abe Feder On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Steven Medved wrote: > > Hello Al, > > I have the iron and bare pot metal ones, I could send the dimensions if you > like. > > Steve > > > From: clockworkhome at aol.com > > Date: Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:17:18 -0500 > > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Edison Reducer Rings C, H, and K in large > carriage... > > > > Thanks Steve: > > > > I had totally forgotten about the late conversion kits. It would be > > interesting for a collector with all of those adapter rings to take a > micrometer > > to them. > > > > Al > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Phono-L mailing list > > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > ------------------------------ Message: 11 Date: Sat, 26 Dec 2009 22:13:58 -0500 From: "ger" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger ------------------------------ Message: 12 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 00:16:34 -0500 From: "Ron L'Herault" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: <004001ca86b3$c235bc90$46a135b0$@edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii The horn was soldered to an arm that attaches to the vertical pipe. It is not a pretty solder job. It was never supposed to be seen by the public 8-) Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of ger Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:14 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 13 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 05:41:57 EST From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" ger _Michigan Antique Phonograph Society_ (http://www.michiganantiquephonographsociety.org/) you should go to one of the phono shows in the spring there is one in wayne new jersey and i believe lynn bilton still has one in connecticut about 50 mile south of you down rte 7 you may be able to find it on maps link In a message dated 12/26/2009 10:14:36 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, ger55 at comcast.net writes: The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. Someone had SOLDERED the horn on the top to another piece (sloppy shiney solder), I guess to keep it from dragging...poor soul of a machine. My impression is that without ALL the parts, there would be stress on both the record grooves and the diamond reproducer, which would be forced to take on the burden of moving the heavy pieces across the record...at least that's the way it seems to me. Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the poor mess. As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went across the back, one high, one low. This was probably to balance the weight of the phono in the right-sided compartment. BOTH sides were equally heavy, and I mean heavy! I could not lift one corner. Wow, was all I could say. But again. This was a fun adventure and learning experience which didn't cost many bucks. It would not have been either without the help of this great group. :) I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which could play my records! And I think I know a little bit about how these machines work...not a lot, but enough probably to just get into more trouble. LOL Oh, and I will wash the records with denatured alcohol before I put them away. One last question on STORAGE: Store records flat, right? But what do you put between them, and is a paper box OK ? Thank you all, Ger _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 14 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 13:11:15 -0500 From: "DanKj" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records ------------------------------ Message: 15 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 22:42:25 +0000 (UTC) From: bruce78rpm at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: <1743010146.5084191261953745838.JavaMail.root at sz0019a.westchester.pa.mail.co mcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Yes, those Edison Table models are few and far between, and because of that they can get pricey. I would suggest you send us some photos of what you described. Ron was correct on all counts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DanKj" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:11:15 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 16 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 17:49:32 -0600 From: "Tom Jordan" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the back room of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They didn't know what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph and it got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in my home office. Tom -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of DanKj Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:11 PM To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 17 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 19:17:06 -0500 From: "Dan K" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1; reply-type=original Trudy the Angora Cat favors our BC for napping and watching the records spin. Mine was way more than $40, but did come with an excellent 78/Pathe adapter & bonus crate of nice discs - and it's always interesting to see what constituted a vintage record collection. Your find reminds me of my Brunswick - it was in the back room of a coin/stamp/45rpm store in the country outside of Buffalo. They wanted $50, which I managed to raise (being 12 yrs old, when $50 wasn't to sneeze at) but I couldn't move it home right away. So, I gave them the money & took every part I could carry - reproducer, crank, all the old packs of needles, instruction books, even the turntable. Then I locked the lid took the key. Took me a month to convince my father to drive out there & haul the thing back . ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Jordan" To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think >I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the back room > of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They didn't know > what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph and it > got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in my > home > office. > Tom ------------------------------ Message: 18 Date: Sun, 27 Dec 2009 18:31:53 -0700 From: Andrew Baron To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: [Phono-L] Edison BC-34 Message-ID: <9A936110-248E-410E-AEAF-360769C65FE8 at popyrus.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes My first Edison was also a BC-34, first laid eyes on it in 1976 when I was 14, in the back of a pickup truck at a flea market. Beautifully preserved original-finish machine with the bronze finish reproducer and metal parts. It had the 10 and 12 buttons for stopping the reproducer at the ten or twelve inch start position. I couldn't afford the $135 for the machine, so I bought several DD records. It only took me a few seconds of trying to play one on my steel-needle machine at home, to realize that there was no choice but to go back and buy the machine. I horse-traded whatever I owned and somehow raised the cash and went back the following weekend. I found the seller but no BC-34. Turns out he still had it and (for understandable reasons) decided not to cart it back to the flea. I got directions to his house, and met up with him the next day. I really had to twist my older brother's arm to allow me to put it in the back of his hatchback Mustang. I can't imagine how we shoe-horned it in there, but somehow we did. I'm sure I fussed about jamming cardboard everywhere, because we got it home without a scratch. My big prize, and a red letter day in my early phonograph collecting life. I played that machine incessantly. Just a memory now, as it was destroyed in 1992 by Hurricane Andrew. By that time, it was with a friend in Miami, as I had moved to Santa Fe 9 years earlier. Andy Baron On Dec 27, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Tom Jordan wrote: > I found a BC 34 console phonograph many years ago stuffed in the > back room > of an antique store with a bunch of old sewing machines. They > didn't know > what it was and sold it to me for $40.00. It was first phonograph > and it > got me started collecting. I still listen to it today as I work in > my home > office. > Tom > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of DanKj > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 12:11 PM > To: Antique Phonograph List > Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think > > Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made > it seem > such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, > and if > there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume > control, which > > I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the > slots > sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the > cabinet? > > You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models > are > less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My > Chalet > weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ger" > > >> The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like >> it had >> been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a >> cable, wood >> block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. >> Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... >> >> Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is >> now a bit > >> wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She >> seemed not >> at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something >> about the >> poor mess. >> >> As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and >> checked > >> out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see >> that 2, >> that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. >> They went >> across the back, one high, one low. \ >> >> >> I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) >> which >> could play my records > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 19 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 16:34:20 -0500 From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Subject: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" The 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records I have are 8708 with a Patd 26, (and the 26 is light like the catalog number on the 1901 to 1904 records with no titles) 10120, 10146, 10278, 10303 .3 & ..6, 10377, and 10395. The 18 records I have from 10396 to 10562 are all the regular wax. The last 2 minute title release was in Sept 1912 but Edison continued to sell them until the fire. I would be interested in knowing if anyone has any of the records outside my range. You can tell them by the mold line at the bottom of the record like the four minute wax amberol. I have never seen a four minute wax amberol without the mold line. I wonder if the excessive surface noise caused Edison to stop using the formula for the 2 minute records or if I have just never found any later ones. The wax amberol wax 2 minute records sound great when new or in excellent condition, when worn they have a lot more surface noise than the regular formula records. Finding one that is not cracked or chipped is very rare, the only advantage is they are not affected by mold. One of the best songs, Its moonlight all the time on Broadway by Murray is only found on 10303 as far as I know. Best wishes, Steve ------------------------------ Message: 20 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 17:25:28 -0500 From: gpaul2000 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records Message-ID: <8CC5623CB15B606-8734-2508 at webmail-d013.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I wouldn't want anyone - especially newcomers to the hobby - to be confused: wax Amberol Records are all 4 minute. Amberol was Edison's trade name for 4 minute cylinder records. From 1908-1912 these Amberol Records were made of a black wax-like substance. From late 1912 - 1929 the 4 minute cylinders (in the popular series) were made of blue celluloid with plaster cores. These were called "Blue Amberol" records. Amberol = 4 minute record. George P. -----Original Message----- From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 4:34 pm Subject: [Phono-L] 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records The 2 minute Wax Amberol Wax records I have are 8708 with a Patd 26, (and the 26 is light like the catalog number on the 1901 to 1904 records with no titles) 10120, 10146, 10278, 10303 .3 & ..6, 10377, and 10395. The 18 records I have from 10396 to 10562 are all the regular wax. The last 2 minute title release was in Sept 1912 but Edison continued to sell them until the fire. I would be interested in knowing if anyone has any of the records outside my range. You can tell them by the mold line at the bottom of the record like the four minute wax amberol. I have never seen a four minute wax amberol without the mold line. I wonder if the excessive surface noise caused Edison to stop using the formula for the 2 minute records or if I have just never found any later ones. The wax amberol wax 2 minute records sound great when new or in excellent condition, when worn they have a lot more surface noise than the regular formula records. Finding one that is not cracked or chipped is very rare, the only advantage is they are not affected by mold. One of the best songs, Its moonlight all the time on Broadway by Murray is only found on 10303 as far as I know. Best wishes, Steve _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 21 Date: Mon, 28 Dec 2009 23:00:31 +0000 (UTC) From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: PhonoList Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Message-ID: <1322843472.3514411262041231991.JavaMail.root at sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.co mcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself.? I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as?film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp.? I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion.? But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound.?I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine.? That leads me to a request.? I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration.? If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca ------------------------------ Message: 22 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 05:58:20 -0500 From: zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Message-ID: <8CC568CF7EF69C3-4D8C-A436 at webmail-m069.sysops.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" HI BILL welcome to the list great car you have too lets get glen on the list too happy holidays rob in florida -----Original Message----- From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: PhonoList Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself. I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp. I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion. But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound. I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine. That leads me to a request. I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration. If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 23 Date: Tue, 29 Dec 2009 13:36:15 +0000 (UTC) From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Message-ID: <928889926.3617961262093775555.JavaMail.root at sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.com cast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Rob:? What a nice surprise to find you on the list.? Will say suggest to Glen that he subscribe. BillZ ----- Original Message ----- From: zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2009 5:58:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed ?HI BILL welcome to the list great car you have too lets get glen on the list too happy holidays rob in florida ? ? -----Original Message----- From: zuccawt at comcast.net To: PhonoList Sent: Mon, Dec 28, 2009 6:00 pm Subject: [Phono-L] Hello Everyone and Cradenza backboard needed Hello everyone on Phono-L: I am a new subscriber to Phono-L and would like to introduce myself. ?I live in Vermont and am primarily a collector of records (1920s hot dance & jazz, as well as film soundtrack and early radio discs) but I have a few machines and love listening to them. Victor Credenza story: I always took with a grain of salt any story I heard about how wonderful it was to listen to early electrical records on a Victor Credenza preferring to use my nice Numark turntable, a truncated 2.5 mil stylus, my Souvenir noise reduction unit, and nice, quiet amp. ?I was quite vocal about this too whenever the subject of playing records and cylinders on original equipment came up for discussion. ?But then I heard a scroll Victor "Gems from Rio Rita" played on a friend's Credenza , one that had been properly restored , and I couldn't believe the warmth and depth of the sound. I bought one and restored it and while I wouldn't play my best store stock records on it, I do have several crates of late '20s scroll Victors that listen to on the big machine. ? That leads me to a request. ?I have acquired a second full-sized Credenza that is without its backboard and wonder if anyone on the list might have one available so I can complete its restoration. ?If you do, please contact me privately at zuccawt @comcast.net Best regards to everyone and Happy New Year. Bill Zucca _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ------------------------------ Message: 24 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 17:36:39 -0500 From: Steven Medved To: Phono-l , phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine-RARE_W0QQitemZ17 0426053885 ------------------------------ Message: 25 Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 18:14:01 EST From: Zonophone2006 at aol.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" HOPE HE GETS IT TOO BAD ITS NOT A MOBLEY OR FLETCHER REPRODUCER MMMMMMMMM ZONO In a message dated 12/30/2009 5:37:18 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, steve_noreen at msn.com writes: http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine-RARE_W0QQitemZ17 0426053885 ------------------------------ Message: 26 Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 01:26:39 GMT From: t at edisonTriumph.com To: phono-l at oldcrank.org Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Message-ID: <200912301803.3SVGR00 at cat2.com> The machine is TOO late for an Automatic. Only the first month or so of production had them and serial numbers run from about 29,000 to 30,000. I've only seen a handful of such machines. The early cases had sharper corners and thinner walls. This example with SN 46,315 appears to be in the correct late case but has had an earlier carriage added at some point. Terry P. Baer St. Louis Email: T at edisonTriumph.com -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:37 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine- RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . ------------------------------ Message: 27 Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:19:23 +0000 From: john9ten at pacbell.net To: "Antique Phonograph List" Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Message-ID: <320397753-1262218658-cardhu_decombobulator _blackberry.rim.net-320387817- at bda006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Content-Type: text/plain That seller is almost always dishonest or at least misleading. John Robles ------Original Message------ From: t at edisonTriumph.com Sender: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org To: phono-l at oldcrank.org ReplyTo: Antique Phonograph List Subject: Re: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Sent: Dec 30, 2009 5:26 PM The machine is TOO late for an Automatic. Only the first month or so of production had them and serial numbers run from about 29,000 to 30,000. I've only seen a handful of such machines. The early cases had sharper corners and thinner walls. This example with SN 46,315 appears to be in the correct late case but has had an earlier carriage added at some point. Terry P. Baer St. Louis Email: T at edisonTriumph.com -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of Steven Medved Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 4:37 PM To: Phono-l; phonolist Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison triumph A with automatic reproducer http://cgi.ebay.com/Edison-Triumph-Model-A-Cylinder-Machine- RARE_W0QQitemZ170426053885 _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using CAT2 Online Internet Services . web-based email system . http://www.cat2.com . _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org End of Phono-L Digest, Vol 6, Issue 180 *************************************** From zuccawt at comcast.net Wed Dec 30 19:24:37 2009 From: zuccawt at comcast.net (zuccawt at comcast.net) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 03:24:37 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <380162899.4136971262229877461.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Dear John:? Thanks for the link.? I should have found it myself.? Will try to tell the difference between the two materials and look for the stuff he recommends. BillZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Maeder" To: "Antique Phonograph List" Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:43:20 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite Google to the rescue! "Polishing Bakelite" yielded this at the top of the page (and there are others): http://www.radiolaguy.com/clean-shine.htm > Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 02:35:51 +0000 > From: zuccawt at comcast.net > To: phono-l at oldcrank.org > Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite > > > > Dear Phonolisters : > > > > Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand............. > > > > Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill Z > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org ????????????????? ???????? ? ???????????????? ? _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From rich-mail at octoxol.com Wed Dec 30 19:29:10 2009 From: rich-mail at octoxol.com (Rich) Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 21:29:10 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer In-Reply-To: References: <200912301803.3SVGR00@cat2.com> Message-ID: <4B3C1A86.4070701@octoxol.com> Anytime I see (RARE), Rare, or L@@K in an eBay title or description I start to wonder what is really wrong with it. Steven Medved wrote: > Hello Terry, > > I appreciate to no end the information you provided below, it helps me so much. > > Frow's book says the Triumph A appeared in the spring of 1901. Do you have any idea the months when 29,000 to 30,000 would have been made? > > The last automatic has a hinge block and limit loop, 211558 is the highest serial number I have seen and for many years I have been trying to get an estimate of the month when the automatic last appeared so I can get an idea of the month in 1901 the automatic was replaced by the early B with the arm. The early B did not have a notch for the centering pin until around serial number 17,000 so I assume that 17,000 was Feb 1902. > > I have seen standards, homes, and triumphs with the carriage with the clips with the early B with no notch. > > Thanks, > > Steve > From clockworkhome at aol.com Wed Dec 30 21:24:50 2009 From: clockworkhome at aol.com (clockworkhome at aol.com) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:24:50 EST Subject: [Phono-L] 1904 Edison Triumph with Automatic Reproducer Message-ID: <258c.517dff1a.386d8fa2@aol.com> I have alerted this seller to many of his inaccurate conglomerations of Edison parts. Never has he responded or put the corrections into the listing. The Triumph machines immediately adopted the Model C reproducer when it first came out in 1902. Only a small number of machines had the reproducer clips and by serial number 31000 the carriage arm had the alignment pin and the single "Speaker Clamp Screw" part #2531. Regards to all, Al From lherault at bu.edu Wed Dec 30 21:56:02 2009 From: lherault at bu.edu (Ron L'Herault) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 00:56:02 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite In-Reply-To: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> References: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <009701ca89dd$ef802190$ce8064b0$@edu> I've read a bit about this on a radio site. Apparently the shiny surface of Bakelite is not very thick. Use a fine grain polish, something not too abrasive. I think a final coat of wax will help as well. Ron L -----Original Message----- From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org] On Behalf Of zuccawt at comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:36 PM To: PhonoList Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite Dear Phonolisters : Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand............. Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? Thanks, Bill Z _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From ger55 at comcast.net Thu Dec 31 02:39:50 2009 From: ger55 at comcast.net (ger) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 05:39:50 -0500 Subject: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think References: Message-ID: <1A7EF2F2C1EA44B693810E528F746BBA@GER1> The machine is gone. If a table model is 70 lbs, the London must have weighed well over a 100 lbs. I could not even lift one side. It was way too heavy for me to realistically deal with...I'm glad I went back though and checked it out. It was a good adventure. As far as the table models...if they're 70 lbs, they're too much for me as well. My limit...is 20 lbs...just about what the records weigh. ;) The cabinet was black. No shine. It had spots of white mildew on the inside wood. Nothing we ever got (back in the 1950-60's) looked as bad as this. Those old machines had that nice old wood antiques smell...still do as a matter of fact...and with a little lemon oil shine up nicely. This was beyond lemon oil. I think even my Pop, the inveterate collector would have passed on it. He would have needed help moving it too. There was a small brass knob just sitting there...don't know where it came from; loose screws floating around; the horn looked kinda green and bent; the front grill had the 4 side pieces stuffed into the cabinet with none of the frilly middle stuff. The closer I looked, the worse IT looked. I know you guys like to preserve these things, and I agree with that wish. The weight, in my opinion, is what really made it unrealistic to even contemplate. It was a big white elephant. I'm happy to have the records though. I've seen thick DD records in the past, always with the edges all messed up. These have pretty sharp edges; only one had some small bubbling. And some day I'll get to hear them. Happy New Year to everyone. Stay healthy and safe. :) Ger ----- Original Message ----- From: DanKj To: Antique Phonograph List Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 1:11 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] The last word on Diamond Discs...I think Too bad you didn't get some pics of it - I wanted to see what made it seem such a mess. The solder is supposed to be there, as Ron L'H said, and if there was anything running into the horn it was just a volume control, which I remove anyway because it muffles the sound. The straps behind the slots sound correct, too. Except for the missing grill, how bad is the cabinet? You might be disappointed to learn that the few Edison table models are less common than floor models and they're HEAVY, awkward things. My Chalet weighs about 70 pounds, and my B-80 nearly as much. ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" > The poor London model of Edison's Diamond Disc machine looks like it had > been tortured. The vertical section was there afterall, but a cable, wood > block and some other things (part going into the horn) were missing. > Someone had SOLDERED the horn on th.... > > Needless to say, the machine still sits with the seller...who is now a bit > wiser, since I shared the photo and what I knew with her. She seemed not > at all disappointed and actually fascinated to learn something about the > poor mess. > > As for its WEIGHT. I've got an "AH-HAH!" I took the flashlight and checked > out the left side where the 24 slots for records was. I could see that 2, > that's TWO, thick metal weights were in place behind the slots. They went > across the back, one high, one low. \ > > > I will, however, now keep an eye out for an Edison (table model) which > could play my records _______________________________________________ Phono-L mailing list http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From andy at popyrus.com Thu Dec 31 08:40:34 2009 From: andy at popyrus.com (Andrew Baron) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 09:40:34 -0700 Subject: [Phono-L] Cosmetic phono restoration tip In-Reply-To: <009701ca89dd$ef802190$ce8064b0$@edu> References: <697059208.4126571262226951884.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> <009701ca89dd$ef802190$ce8064b0$@edu> Message-ID: <2752E790-80A3-4695-ADF0-D4731DB9C581@popyrus.com> The following was initially intended to be a reply to the Bakelite polishing subject, but it's far-reaching enough that I changed the subject line. One of the best polishes I've discovered recently, that's almost miraculous in its effect (and yet uses no slimy additives), is Meguiar's Ultimate Compound. You can buy it at auto parts stores. It has all the cleaning-through-the-grime capability of conventional coarser rubbing and polishing compounds, but is much, much safer to use. It cleans and polishes amazingly effectively, and yet it doesn't cut into precious surfaces nearly as readily as the conventional compounds. It leaves a fine, smooth and highly polished surface with no residue. I think I even read on the bottle that it leaves surfaces paintable, so it must be free of residue-leaving chemicals. As with any polishing agent, the human factor is important; you still want to go slow and observantly over corners and other vulnerable areas but this stuff isn't nearly as harsh, and yet it's even more effective than other compounds. I've used it on wood finishes, painted surfaces, Bakelite and metals (as always, be careful with thinly plated parts), with stupendous results. If there are crevices, pores or other tiny surface irregularities, you'll need to either remove traces of dried compound with a soft wood toothpick (it dries to almost white), or you can follow up with an oil type furniture polish to darken these tiny compound remnants. With patience, it can do wonders with superficially alligatored wood finishes. Andy Baron On Dec 30, 2009, at 10:56 PM, Ron L'Herault wrote: > I've read a bit about this on a radio site. Apparently the shiny > surface of > Bakelite is not very thick. Use a fine grain polish, something not > too > abrasive. I think a final coat of wax will help as well. > > Ron L > > -----Original Message----- > From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org > ] On > Behalf Of zuccawt at comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 9:36 PM > To: PhonoList > Subject: [Phono-L] polishing Bakelite > > > > Dear Phonolisters : > > > > Maybe this isn't the place to ask but on the other hand............. > > > > Does anyone know a good way to revive and polish Bakelite? > > > > Thanks, > > Bill Z > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org From maxbud12 at wowway.com Thu Dec 31 12:18:06 2009 From: maxbud12 at wowway.com (Bruce Mercer) Date: Thu, 31 Dec 2009 14:18:06 -0600 Subject: [Phono-L] Hello References: <1322843472.3514411262041231991.JavaMail.root@sz0004a.westchester.pa.mail.comcast.net> Message-ID: <79AEB6C46B2D49978A564919235802A0@Vaio> Hello Bill and welcome to the best group on the subject. BTW....what car? I missed what it was but am also afflicted along those lines. Bruce