Dear ger, All I've got to say is that I admire your passion about all the details about these cylinder companies...... reminds me of my own! With your enthusiastic inquisitiveness, you'll get the complicated picture well figured out in due course! Wait until you get into all the early brown wax companies of 1890-1904 and all the non-U.S cylinder companies....... Opps....guess I opened up a can of worms there! Happy regards, Michael Khanchalian (cylinder doctor) ----- Original Message ----- From: "ger" <ger55 at comcast.net> To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org> Sent: Saturday, March 22, 2008 7:46 PM Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Cylinders not Edison, but whose?/ I'm still reading online articles. Lambert was put out of business after numerous infringement lawsuits by Edison. It's said that when Lambert finally folded (records produced 1901-1905), TAE got the patents to Lamberts' celluloid records. However, he didn't introduce the celluloid until 1912. This suggests to me that these "other" companies who made celluloid cylinders kind of snuck in (1908-1912 generally) while all these lawsuits were going on, and before TAE put out his first EBA. Does this sound about right? And how did Indestructible manage to keep making records until 1922, without TAE eating them up too? :) PS: I read that Lamberts were pure celluloid, no liner or metal frame. So that question is answered.