Radio Shack still sells styli, at least online. That's where I ordered a replacement for a broken Shure stylus. Jim On Mar 7, 2008, at 10:38 AM, Rich wrote: > You can always find a local source for something that the > manufacturer does not recommend. The entire pull out assembly is > supposed to be replaced as the suspension is in there and every > elastomer has a service life. > > Ron L wrote: >> I had a Stanton locally retipped. The old diamond was completely >> removed >> and a new diamond was inserted, no re-grinding involved AFAIK. >> Ron L >> -----Original Message----- >> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >> ] On >> Behalf Of Robert Wright >> Sent: Friday, March 07, 2008 3:32 AM >> To: Antique Phonograph List >> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles >> As far as Rega, Lyra, clearaudio, and a number of other high-grade >> cartridge >> makers are concerned, I'm positive the entire cantilever is >> replaced, as well as the suspension. I have heard in the past >> about companies that merely reground the tip, which seems cheap and >> somewhat pointless when misaligned magnets and coils reduce output >> and futz with phase coherency. >> You're right, of course, you aren't defending steel needles any >> more strongly than I'm condemning them. They were, after all, the >> only alternative at one time. But in my experience, I'm not >> comdemning steel needles any more strongly than they condemned my >> records by replacing the upper octaves of frequency response with a >> few dB of white noise. Thank goodness for stacks and stacks of >> virtually worthless shellac! >> Best, >> Robert >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L" <lherault at bu.edu> >> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l at oldcrank.org> >> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:55 PM >> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles >>> Are you sure the whole cantilever is replaced during a re-tip? >>> >>> I don't think I am defending steel needles any more strongly than >>> you are >>> condemning them. I don't use steel needles exclusively but I >>> don't shy away >>> from steel needles either. >>> >>> Ron L >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org [mailto:phono-l-bounces at oldcrank.org >>> ] On >>> Behalf Of Robert Wright >>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:20 PM >>> To: Antique Phonograph List >>> Subject: Re: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles >>> >>> "I don't think anyone ever said that no wear (not damage-the >>> choice of >>> terms >>> shows a prejudice) to a record occurs." >>> >>> Au contraire, dear Ron, it is eBay seller "nickjay" (or that's >>> what he used >>> to go by) who has said in no uncertain terms that he believes ZERO >>> damage >>> (or wear) happens with a single playback with a new steel needle. >>> So yes, >>> I'm afraid someone has said it, and I'm sure he's not the only "true >>> believer" out there, as Rich pointed out. >>> >>> I'm suprised by the strongly defensive stance you take on behalf >>> of steel >>> needles, though I know you must have your reasons. But no amount of >>> positive semantics replacing my negatively prejudiced choice of >>> terms is >>> going to reduce the amount of shellac dust I find all over the tip >>> of every >>> brand new soft-tone steel needle I play a shellac record with, so >>> the terms >>> really don't make any difference in the real world. >>> >>> I absolutely agree that optimal set-up on any machine reduces wear >>> to a >>> minimum (that's most of what the set-up is for, as minimum wear >>> often equals >>> >>> optimum sound), but I was pointing out the one aspect of pivoted >>> playback >>> that the purveyors of this myth seem to be either ignorant or >>> unaware: that >>> >>> azimuth error reduces the "new needles wear down to precisely >>> match the >>> groove and cause little to no wear after the first few grooves" >>> theory to >>> bunk. >>> >>> I also agree some machines had better designs than others. I know >>> a lot of >>> earlier, outside-horn machines had tonearms that were pretty darn >>> long; >>> every millimeter of added distance between the pivot point and the >>> needle >>> tip helps correct the azimuth error by some degree. I don't know >>> how much >>> heavier or lighter these older machines register at the needle >>> tip, but I'd >>> be willing to bet records suffered less wear played on them with >>> new needles >>> >>> than on newer, shorter-tonearm'd models. (Unless, of course, >>> there was very >>> >>> little compliance at the needle shank pivot on the older >>> machines... I >>> wouldn't know, I've never messed with any of them.) >>> >>> What I don't agree with is there being some great difference >>> between wear >>> and damage -- wear IS damage as far as I'm concerned, whether >>> expected or >>> not. Frankly, who among us makes such a distinction when >>> considering buying >>> >>> a record that we later find out has almost completely greyed-out >>> grooves? >>> Who among us minds the occasional edge chip or flake? I fully >>> expect those >>> with shellac discs, as a part of "normal use" involves handling, >>> and normal >>> handling includes the occasional, accidental chipping of a record >>> edge. No, >>> >>> I say it's a matter of simple semantics, none of which make any real >>> difference -- but by all means, use whatever terms suit you, as >>> will I. >>> >>> Lastly, a bit of quick clarification: regarding Edison DD's and >>> the reasons >>> >>> for their relative lack of wear through playing, Pathe discs, >>> unlike Edison >>> DD's, are made of the same stuff as lateral shellac discs (minus >>> the diamond >>> >>> dust, I'm assuming), and the only Pathe's I find with groove >>> damage have >>> obviously been played on a lateral machine with a steel needle at >>> least once >>> >>> (it's a very obvious "look" the surface has when subjected to such >>> numbskullery). As I said, Pathe's sapphire ball stylus machines >>> offered >>> exactly the same tip profile to the groove regardless of position >>> and/or >>> angle of the soundbox, because it was spherical; as such, I've >>> never seen a >>> clean vertical Pathe disc in the middle -- it has either been >>> shredded to >>> nothing by misuse, or its playing surface looks -- and sounds -- >>> pristine. >>> >>> Final point (so to speak, ha ha): you won't get me to believe >>> that the >>> world's hardest substance can be altered by one of the world's >>> most pliant. >>> Modern cartridges are not "retipped" because of wear to the >>> diamond; the >>> entire cantilever is replaced, along with the cantilever's >>> suspension. When >>> >>> burning in a new stylus, it is this cantilever suspension that is >>> being >>> broken in, and when the stylus needs replacing, it is because of the >>> cantilever suspension, which cannot support the recommended Vertical >>> Tracking Force after so many hours of use, making the magnets >>> attached to >>> the cantilever become misaligned with the coils inside the >>> cartridge. >>> Plastic does not wear down a diamond. (Playing shellac discs with >>> diamond >>> dust in them is, however, another story completely, as a diamond >>> will >>> obviously be reshaped by grinding against diamond dust -- that's how >>> jewelers shape them to begin with.) >>> >>> Don't let wear OR damage stop you from playing your records, but >>> do know >>> what you're signing up for and act accordingly. >>> >>> Best as always, >>> Robert >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron L" <lherault at bu.edu> >>> To: "'Antique Phonograph List'" <phono-l at oldcrank.org> >>> Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 9:01 AM >>> Subject: RE: [Phono-L] Shellac records and damage from steel needles >>> >>> >>>> I don't think anyone ever said that no wear (not damage-the >>>> choice of >>>> terms >>>> shows a prejudice) to a record occurs. That is clearly wrong for >>>> the >>>> reasons you have stated. Wear to the needle continues throughout >>>> the play >>>> of the record. If a machine is properly maintained and the >>>> reproducer has >>>> compliant parts, when a new steel needle(not a nail - see comment >>>> in >>>> parentheses above) is used, wear is kept to a minimum. Having >>>> said that, >>>> further qualification should be made. Some machines had better >>>> designs >>>> than >>>> others. Steel needles are ground to a point and tumbled to >>>> create a >>>> particular radius on the tip they are not merely, "headless >>>> nails." What >>>> has happened over time is that the whole playback system has become >>>> refined. >>>> Even diamond styli are worn by vinyl records and the records >>>> themselves >>>> are >>>> worn (degraded) every time they are played. No contact system of >>>> playback >>>> will eliminate this. If you have a super-valuable/rare record, >>>> should you >>>> play it repeatedly with a steel needle? No. But then again, you >>>> probably >>>> shouldn't play it repeatedly with any needle/stylus. >>>> >>>> I think Greg Boganz mentioned the lack of wear on DDs on the >>>> Electrola >>>> list >>>> recently. It is not entirely because of the tone arm and has to >>>> do with >>>> vertical grooves and the nature of the DD surface. >>>> >>>> Ron L >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Phono-L mailing list >>> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org