Very interesting. I would have to assume that because the later style horizontal- sliding lever is attached via a pair of machine screws directly into the motor plate casting, that this style of lever had to have been used only on the post-fire B-250, since the A-series motor board castings wouldn't have had that provision. My interpretation of the date that of origin of the later motor plate (in term of manufacturing) is that the later standardized mechanism being "tried on an A-250" in November 1914 was a laboratory exercise, prior to issuing the order to begin making them that way in the bulk production. Without more complete documentation, it's hard to know with any great certainty, though. On page 38, Frow states "From the beginning of 1915 the new Standardized Disc Mechanism motors were installed in existing cabinets...". Since the 325 surviving A-250's were described as "completed", I would assume that these were made in late 1914, and not retrofitted with standardized mechanism. I think the most interesting point you bring up, Bruce, is citing the production of 100 250 models a day early in 1915. If the factory had achieved similar quantities before the fire (a seemingly realistic assumption), the my observation about being able to accurately pinpoint the manufacturing date (possibly even to within a week) is viable. Oh!, but for the absence of an ACTUAL date in November '14 that the modulator began to be installed by the factory! If we can collect more data from my questionnaire, this theoretical production information will either be reinforced or discredited. Andy On Jun 25, 2007, at 10:38 AM, bruce78rpm wrote: > Ok, that might explain my seeing one of these about 10 years ago > about 10 miles from here in the home of another collector. It could > well have been a B-250, as I really didn't examine the model > number, and just assumed that it was like mine (an A-250), was the > standardized mechanism the only major difference between the A-250 > and the B-250? I believe it says in Frow's book that the > standardized mechanism was first tried in an A-250 in November of > 1914. After the fire there remained 325 Completed A-250's in stock > which were cleared out prior to the B-250 being sent out. Is it > possible that any of these remaining A-250's had the new standard > Mechanism as well as the vertical tone modulator? I guess we will > discover that shortly as new survey completions come in. > Production of the 250 model was about 100 a day early in 1915. > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Baron" <andy at popyrus.com> > To: "Antique Phonograph List" <phono-l at oldcrank.org> > Sent: Monday, June 25, 2007 11:50 AM > Subject: [Phono-L] Tone modulator lever variant on A-series > > >> Hi Bruce ~ >> I wasn't aware that the more common horizontal slide was available >> on the A-250. >> >> I don't actually know one way or the other, but I would have >> assumed that the more commonly seen horizontal lever style wasn't >> used until after the standardization following the factory fire >> and would have thought that this didn't appear until the machine >> was renamed B-250. >> >> When you mention having seen later examples of the A-250 with >> the later style tone lever, are you sure that these were A and >> not B series machines? Anyone out there have an A-250 with a >> horizontal tone modulator lever? >> >> The tone modulator on my later A-250 serial number 13417 is the >> same as yours; i.e. it lifts straight up and can be leaned to the >> left to reduce interference with the lid. What's interesting >> about learning that your serial number 10248 machine also has >> this feature, is the fact that our machines are some three- >> thousand (3,169) numbers apart, and yet they both have the tone >> modulator. If the source information that Frow used on the date >> of introduction of this feature (November 1914) is correct, and >> your machine was made (for example) the first week of November, >> and mine the first week of December, and the factory burned on >> Dec 9, this would tell us that the production per day of the >> A-250 was approximately 105 machines. >> >> This assumes that the November date of introduction of the >> modulator (which is not given in Frow) was near the beginning of >> the month, and that the production had achieved 105 machines per >> day of that one model by late 1914. >> >> If this daily output of A-250's matches up more or less with >> established data, then we can really pinpoint the date of >> manufacture of any A-250 equipped this way to within a week or >> two in 1914. This also assumes factory equipped and not >> retrofitted. >> >> Does anyone out there have a sense of whether this daily >> production quantity is realistic at that time? Any other comments >> about this? >> >> Best, >> Andy >> >> >> On Jun 25, 2007, at 8:14 AM, bruce78rpm wrote: >> >>> Hi Andrew, you may be already aware of this, but here goes. I >>> believe there were variants of the tone modulator on the A-250, >>> my Model (Serial Number 10248) has the control lever which >>> pushes up and down (obviously an early design). I have seen >>> other later examples of the A-250 that have the improved and >>> much more common tone modulator control that slides from left to >>> right. I wonder how long the earlier vertical control design >>> lasted? On the earlier design, it has a flexible screw attached >>> to the bottom of the control handle so if you raise the handle >>> all the way (maximum volume) you can still push the handle out >>> of the way to the left, so it won't scrap against a lowered lid. >>> You may want to include these two tone control options in your >>> survey. >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> Phono-L mailing list >> http://phono-l.oldcrank.org > > _______________________________________________ > Phono-L mailing list > http://phono-l.oldcrank.org